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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:17:03 AM EDT
[#1]
If the bolt doesn't fully go into battery, you can hit the forward assist to push it the rest of the way.
I believe you're talking about this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI Notice that the kid loads a magazine, slaps the forward assist a few times, and then charges the weapon. He had absolutely no idea what he was doing. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:26:44 AM EDT
[#2]
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:29:29 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Notice that the kid loads a magazine, slaps the forward assist a few times, and then charges the weapon. He had absolutely no idea what he was doing. That's why noobs should only shoot factory reloaded ammo. There's so much that could go wrong with reloaded ammo, that it's prudent to have experienced shooters only handle reloaded ammo. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:34:43 AM EDT
[#4]
It's used to ensure the bolt is completely forward. A lot of the people who use it were trained that way in the military. It was insisted by the Army back in the 60s. It's also part of the SPORTS failure drill. It's probably not necessary 99% of the time but it takes a brief second to whack it a few times and does not interfere with the weapon mechanically if it fails. If you don't like it, don't use it, or just buy a NODAK Spud or some of the DPMS uppers without one and the problem is solved.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:16:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round. After fording a river, or for whatever reason the rifle get submerged, you draw back the bolt a bit to break any seal and let the water drain from the barrel. The forward assist is then tapped to ensure the bolt goes into battery. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:35:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round. This is the only reason I've ever used the forward assist. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:44:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Also, a lot of shooters use it to make sure the round is seated after doing a press check.
The only reason I would ever use one. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:45:13 AM EDT
[#8]
AGNTSA!
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:58:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round. After fording a river, or for whatever reason the rifle get submerged, you draw back the bolt a bit to break any seal and let the water drain from the barrel. The forward assist is then tapped to ensure the bolt goes into battery. Didn't think of press checks, so two reasons which are basically the same thing, i.e. not letting the bolt slam home from its locked back position. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 9:59:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round. This is the only reason I've ever used the forward assist. or when you check if the chamber is empty or full: pull the charging handle/bolt carrier a bit back, look for brass and then push the foward assist to lock the bolt. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:01:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Press checks.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:04:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only valid reason I can think of for it is to finish closing the bolt when you're riding it forward when you want to silently chamber a round. I wouldn't even want to use it in combat. I'd rather get rid of the bad round than risk chambering it. In a firefight a blown up gun is a lot worse than that extra split second it took me to dumb the bad round. This is the only reason I've ever used the forward assist. or when you check if the chamber is empty or full: pull the charging handle/bolt carrier a bit back, look for brass and then push the foward assist to lock the bolt. Yes, this too. Good point. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:09:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Or when your chamber is a little dirty from extended firing and the bolt won't got into battery w/o a little push on the FA. SS
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:32:15 AM EDT
[#14]
brass check:
ever have a round not chamber? I have (crappy issued mags) I do a brass check every time- pull the charging handle back a little bit so you can see brass, then tap the forward assist to make sure the bolt is seated. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:33:40 AM EDT
[#15]
It's handy for when you forget to put the buffer and spring back in after cleaning. The bolt carrier can fall back a little and block opening the receivers. Tap the forward assist and you can open it again!
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Posted: 3/12/2009 10:51:38 AM EDT
[#16]
just spill balling here, what about when you have been out in the field for a couple of days and/or extended fighting and your gun is getting pretty dirty, no chance to clean it. Could be nessecary when chambering a round out of a new mag?
Only time I use mine is after a press check. J- |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 11:30:45 AM EDT
[#17]
It's handy for when you forget to put the buffer and spring back in after cleaning. The bolt carrier can fall back a little and block opening the receivers. Tap the forward assist and you can open it again!
That's funny! Never did that before. But now that you mentioned it, it'll probably happen to me next time i clean my rifle! 
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Posted: 3/12/2009 11:39:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Like the others said:press check or silent loading.
That's actually one of the things I like about the AR,sometimes I just don't want to let the bolt slam around so I just yank the charging handle back and ease it in,then use the FA to get it to chamber the rest of the way. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 3:01:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Silent loading is a joke. Come on you should be already chambered. To check and see if it is loaded, BS, it is always loaded.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 3:14:58 PM EDT
[#20]
I have a couple of Barrett 6.8 mags that have VERY stiff springs. When you have 30 rounds in there, the bolt has a bit of trouble getting the first round stripped out. I give the F.A. a tap and it closes. Works on topped off 30 round gov't mags that do the same too.
I've never needed it to get a round into a dirty chamber. In those cases I dump the round, and if the next round tries to do the same, I drop the mag & check the weapon for problems...followed by checking the rounds for trouble. Too expensive to try to force a bad round into the chamber, or find out that you have a stuck projectile preventing chambering. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 4:26:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Silent loading is a joke. Come on you should be already chambered. To check and see if it is loaded, BS, it is always loaded. You don't hunt, do you? It's handy after using a climbing tree stand at o dark thrity and then hualing your rifle up. You load silently the round out of the magazine. I've also used it in an ambush position to silently press check that a round is chambered. One of the worst things to happen on a two way rifle range is to have an unloaded rifle when you expect it to go bang. You've never been in a hide site behind emeny lines and had to clean the sand out of your M16 from the hole in the ground that you've been living in for the last few days? CD |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 5:06:06 PM EDT
[#22]
H&K calls it a silent bolt close on their DMR or some such like.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 5:08:58 PM EDT
[#23]
After 21 years in the Army, I tap the fwd assist out of habit.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:28:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Got it. makes sense. I have never had to check if a round was chambered, and have never had the bolt not be clearly fully in battery. I suppose if I would have, the FA would have seemed the likely solution. Now it definitely will. Thanks for the info.
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:34:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Silent loading is a joke. Come on you should be already chambered. To check and see if it is loaded, BS, it is always loaded. You don't hunt, do you? It's handy after using a climbing tree stand at o dark thrity and then hualing your rifle up. You load silently the round out of the magazine. I've also used it in an ambush position to silently press check that a round is chambered. One of the worst things to happen on a two way rifle range is to have an unloaded rifle when you expect it to go bang. You've never been in a hide site behind emeny lines and had to clean the sand out of your M16 from the hole in the ground that you've been living in for the last few days? CD I am a stalker not a ambusher. More sport and more fun. |
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Posted: 3/12/2009 8:51:21 PM EDT
[#26]
I personally like the idea of it.
With the AR, you don't have direct control over the bolt like you do with the AK. The forward assist gives you the ability to push the BCG forward cause obviously the charging handle only has reward control over the BCG. |
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Posted: 3/13/2009 10:26:10 AM EDT
[#27]
Don't even use the FA after a press check. If the round doesn't want to chamber figure out why first.
Clint Smith advises using your finger in the groove of the bolt to seat the bolt after doing a press check. |
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Posted: 3/13/2009 11:07:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Forward assist is a terrible idea. Creates more problems than it fixes.
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Posted: 3/13/2009 11:13:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Forward assist is a terrible idea. Creates more problems than it fixes. Ok, so if someone is re-seating a round after a brass/press check, what problem is this exactly creating? |
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Posted: 3/13/2009 11:48:35 AM EDT
[#30]
I don't know, a lot of Vietnam era troops were pleased to finally get the forward assist... I use mine, but only when performing SPORTS.
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Posted: 3/13/2009 12:42:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I don't know, a lot of Vietnam era troops were pleased to finally get the forward assist... I use mine, but only when performing SPORTS. Vietnam era troops were happy to get it because the Army changed the propellant in the gun powder causing malfunctions. However most of those malfunctions were failure to ejects, something the forward assist doesn't solve. Quoted:
Ok, so if someone is re-seating a round after a brass/press check, what problem is this exactly creating? Sir, you can cherry pick all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the forward assist creates more problems than it solves. Yes, you found a problem it doesn't create. Regardless, you should always assume the weapon is loaded, that being said I always know when my weapon is loaded and when it is unloaded. I have never had an ND nor come home from the range with a round in the chamber. You need to do a brass check because you don't know if you own weapon is loaded, that is a problem with the operator not the rifle, regardless you can pull the charging handle back a tiny bit, take a look, push the bolt forward with your finger. Low and behold it is now possible to close the bolt on a brass check for people without a forward assist. I must admit am tickled by people who continue to defend the apendage that was nothing more than a band aid for a problem that was created by the Army over 30 years ago. However, to each his own. If you feel it is necessary I am not going to take it from you. |
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Posted: 3/13/2009 12:57:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't know, a lot of Vietnam era troops were pleased to finally get the forward assist... I use mine, but only when performing SPORTS. Vietnam era troops were happy to get it because the Army changed the propellant in the gun powder causing malfunctions. However most of those malfunctions were failure to ejects, something the forward assist doesn't solve. Quoted:
Ok, so if someone is re-seating a round after a brass/press check, what problem is this exactly creating? Sir, you can cherry pick all you want. So now finding a valid use for something is cherry-picking? Yes, you found a problem it doesn't create. Yep, sure did... You need to do a brass check because you don't know if you own weapon is loaded, that is a problem with the operator not the rifle. A lull in the fight is always a good time to make sure everything is squared away, I don't see what this is such a problem. pull the charging handle back a tiny bit, take a look, push the bolt forward with your finger. For those who fire their rifles, B/C's get hot. (Unless you run a piston gun I suppose...) I must admit am tickled by people who continue to defend the apendage To each his own, I won't take that away from you... |
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Posted: 3/14/2009 1:33:51 AM EDT
[#33]
Also, he never pointed out how the forward assist causes any problems...
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Posted: 3/14/2009 1:06:16 PM EDT
[#34]
I like it.
Use it after verifying a loaded chamber. I freely admit that after enough sleep deprivation, enough hours of taxing mental work, and/or enough changing circustances while saddled with a huge volume of widely ranging responsibilities, I have trouble knowing anything absolutely. |
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Posted: 3/14/2009 1:19:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Exactly! I showed this to my coworkers and explained how the idiot was FAILING at every point, though I did bring up a question in my head...even if the gun wasn't ejecting at all, how could you possibly-or how likely would it be to force another cartridge into one already chambered? The chamber wouldnt close no matter how badly you jammed the assist. I'm still clueless as to what actually happened.
Quoted: If the bolt doesn't fully go into battery, you can hit the forward assist to push it the rest of the way. I believe you're talking about this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI Notice that the kid loads a magazine, slaps the forward assist a few times, and then charges the weapon. He had absolutely no idea what he was doing. |
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Posted: 3/14/2009 4:32:09 PM EDT
[#36]
I've seen that video just a couple of times, and wondered what was going on, too. I mostly just dismissed it as "I would never do anything like that - no series of events that I can imagine would result in me taking the actions that guy did."
I don't remember if it shows clearly or not, but if he had a round that squibbed because it was underpowered, he could have ejected the brass and chambered another round - the bullet would have to travel only about an inch for that to work. If I am at the range and have a FTF, I am damn sure that I'll be checking the round, the chamber, the mag, the bolt, the trigger, all that at least before I fire again. I'm certainly not going to dry-hump the freakin' forward assist while I try to look authoritative in my polo and shades. |
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Posted: 3/14/2009 9:08:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't know, a lot of Vietnam era troops were pleased to finally get the forward assist... I use mine, but only when performing SPORTS. Vietnam era troops were happy to get it because the Army changed the propellant in the gun powder causing malfunctions. However most of those malfunctions were failure to ejects, something the forward assist doesn't solve. Quoted:
Ok, so if someone is re-seating a round after a brass/press check, what problem is this exactly creating? Sir, you can cherry pick all you want. It doesn't change the fact that the forward assist creates more problems than it solves. Yes, you found a problem it doesn't create. Regardless, you should always assume the weapon is loaded, that being said I always know when my weapon is loaded and when it is unloaded. I have never had an ND nor come home from the range with a round in the chamber. You need to do a brass check because you don't know if you own weapon is loaded, that is a problem with the operator not the rifle, regardless you can pull the charging handle back a tiny bit, take a look, push the bolt forward with your finger. Low and behold it is now possible to close the bolt on a brass check for people without a forward assist. I must admit am tickled by people who continue to defend the apendage that was nothing more than a band aid for a problem that was created by the Army over 30 years ago. However, to each his own. If you feel it is necessary I am not going to take it from you. I'm not gonna ASSUME a damn thing in combat. I'm gonna make damn sure the round is chambered when I have the opportunity. If YOU wanna ASSUME your rifle is good to go, then that's YOUR choice. Have fun when you pull the trigger and find out the hard way the round wasn't fully seated. |
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Posted: 3/15/2009 5:31:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Regardless, you should always assume the weapon is loaded, that being said I always know when my weapon is loaded and when it is unloaded. I have never had an ND nor come home from the range with a round in the chamber. You need to do a brass check because you don't know if you own weapon is loaded, that is a problem with the operator not the rifle,
Rule #1, always assume the gun is loaded!! I check the chamber on every single weapon I touch as soon as it hits my hands. Even on my own weapons that I know weather or not they are loaded. And for sure if it's someone elses and I hope they would do the same if they ever handled mine. The FA seems like a good substitute for sticking your finger up there and pushing the bolt closed, especially if you want to make damn sure it's GTG when you pull the trigger. |
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Posted: 3/15/2009 5:37:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Also, he never pointed out how the forward assist causes any problems... 9 out of 10 times you attempt to chamber a round that didn't want to go in there, you cause a malfunction that will require tools to clear. The actual requirement documents for the FA were in the book the "Black rifle." The army wanted it by the own words for "pyschological reasons," the Marines and the Air Force didn't want it. |
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Posted: 3/15/2009 11:31:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Also, a lot of shooters use it to make sure the round is seated after doing a press check. The only reason I would ever use one. . |
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Posted: 3/15/2009 12:04:04 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Silent loading is a joke. Come on you should be already chambered. To check and see if it is loaded, BS, it is always loaded. You don't hunt, do you? It's handy after using a climbing tree stand at o dark thrity and then hualing your rifle up. You load silently the round out of the magazine. I've also used it in an ambush position to silently press check that a round is chambered. One of the worst things to happen on a two way rifle range is to have an unloaded rifle when you expect it to go bang. You've never been in a hide site behind emeny lines and had to clean the sand out of your M16 from the hole in the ground that you've been living in for the last few days? CD I am a stalker not a ambusher. More sport and more fun. Another internet warrior tough guy! |
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