Site Notices
11/20/2014 4:05:39 PM
Author
Message
17Z
Offline
Posts: 95
Feedback: 0% (0)
Posted: 12/27/2008 7:16:00 AM EST
Lots of flash-hider questions on the forum I notice. I need some FH info myself.

I need a long hider to screw on my Daewoo K1 carbine. One leg has always been cracked between the gas slots, now I notice two legs cracked! The thing had apparently been dropped on the muzzle before I got it, resulting in the initial crack(I guess?). Lots of shooting must have vibrated the hider until it cracked further. Thats my guess anyway.

An AR hider should fit. I unscrewed the K1 hider, and an M16 A1 "birdcage" screws right on. Don't think the A1 hider is anywhere near long enough to be legal however.

I checked out Del-Ton's FH selection, and see a couple possibility's there. The DTI flash hiders are sort of plain looking though. Any suggestions for long AR flash hiders that might look good on a Daewoo and be legal length?

Thanx, 17
demusn1979
Member
Offline
Posts: 1330
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 7:19:50 AM EST
If it's not permanent you can put anything you want on it.16" w/o hider.
FLY NAVY!
Taurus, who's "Lifetime Warranty" means nothing except how long it will actually take them to resolve a problem. Hawgleg44

OSAMAMAOBAMASUCK
Augee
Member
Offline
Posts: 2168
Feedback: 100% (137)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 7:44:43 AM EST
Maybe explore 45Bravo's XM177E type 4.5" moderators, IIRC, that's what the K1's muzzle device is based on anyways.

HTH,
~Augee
glazer1972
Team Member
Offline
Posts: 4699
Feedback: 100% (57)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:45:05 AM EST
If the bbl is 16" I would put a vortex on it.
كافر


17Z
Offline
Posts: 98
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 3:52:28 PM EST
She's a pre-ban gun. The barrel is approx. 14.5" less hider. Needs a longer flash suppressor than an A1 birdcage to be legal. I screwed the cracked hider back on just in case the ATF comes calling tonight!

I would suppose it's legal to swap out flash suppressors on a pre-ban as long as it exceeds 16" barrel/hider length, huh?
Blick
Offline
Posts: 365
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 3:55:50 PM EST
If I recall correctly, the flash suppressor needs to be pinned or otherwise permanently attached to be legal if the barrel is under 16 inches.

If I'm right (and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to confirm or deny) I wouldn't recommend using that upper until you do something about that.
ViniVidivici
Member
Offline
Posts: 3347
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 3:57:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Blick:
If I recall correctly, the flash suppressor needs to be pinned or otherwise permanently attached to be legal if the barrel is under 16 inches.

If I'm right (and I'm sure someone will be along shortly to confirm or deny) I wouldn't recommend using that upper until you do something about that.


This.
كافر All the way.
BumpFireNHaveMoreFun
Offline
Posts: 876
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 3:57:58 PM EST
If the barrel length is a 14.5" exluding the length the existing non-perminant hider than it's already illigal. Any flash hider will have to be 1.5" and then pinned and welded to make it the legel 16".
platypusREX
Offline
Posts: 1368
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 4:12:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2008 4:14:40 PM EST by platypusREX]
Originally Posted By BumpFireNHaveMoreFun:
If the barrel length is a 14.5" exluding the length the existing non-perminant hider than it's already illigal. Any flash hider will have to be 1.5" and then pinned and welded to make it the legel 16".


More like 2 inches.
Unicorn
Member
Offline
Posts: 4687
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 6:08:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2008 6:10:58 PM EST by Unicorn]
Phantom. http://www.yankeehillmachine.com/store/muzzle.html
Or the Midieval. http://store.troyind.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SSUP-MED-05BT-00
Then pinned and welded to ensure compliance with the law.
Facta Non Verba
COSteve
Noli nothis permittere te terere.
Offline
Posts: 3396
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:27:16 PM EST
Before you panic, confirm the actual length of the barrel by closing the bolt and sticking a cleaning rod down the barrel. Remove anything that adds length to your barrel that you can unscrew, unbolt, or unhook. Then mark the point of your muzzle and remove the rod.

If the mark is under 16" from the end of your rod, you have to either A) permanently attach something to the end of the muzzle to make it 16" or longer, or B) register it as an SBR (if allowed in your state). The only other choice would be to remove the barrel from the upper and get rid of it.

Failure to register and SBR correctly will get you an all expense paid 'vacation' at a Federal facility of the Government's choice.
If I had a nickel for every time I tried to save money, I'd be rich!

Oh wait. I do!
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Offline
Posts: 12085
Feedback: 100% (345)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:39:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
If the bbl is 16" I would put a vortex on it.


Yup!
website: www.spikestactical.com
email: sales@spikestactical.com
phone: 407.928.2666
fax: 866-283-2215
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Offline
Posts: 12086
Feedback: 100% (345)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:40:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/27/2008 8:41:04 PM EST by badazzar15]
Originally Posted By BumpFireNHaveMoreFun:
If the barrel length is a 14.5" exluding the length the existing non-perminant hider than it's already illigal. Any flash hider will have to be 1.5" and then pinned and welded to make it the legel 16".



Yup and If thats the case a pinned and welded Vortex would be perfect.
website: www.spikestactical.com
email: sales@spikestactical.com
phone: 407.928.2666
fax: 866-283-2215
Skillshot
Suppressed Man
Offline
Posts: 15129
Feedback: 100% (47)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 8:43:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
If the bbl is 16" I would put a vortex on it.


Yup!


Nahh, I'd go with a Blackout.

But since it is 14.5, the longest flash hider is the BE Meyers.

"I'm egotistical and arrogant because I've earned the right to be." -Dusty_C
LSVTEC
Offline
Posts: 6
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 9:36:26 PM EST
CHECK OUT THE CAR 15 EXTENDED...
http://www.bushmaster.com/products.asp?cat=8
badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Offline
Posts: 12099
Feedback: 100% (345)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 9:41:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By Skillshot:
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
Originally Posted By glazer1972:
If the bbl is 16" I would put a vortex on it.


Yup!


Nahh, I'd go with a Blackout.

But since it is 14.5, the longest flash hider is the BE Meyers.

http://i41.tinypic.com/nzpqc1.jpg



The Blackout is Nice to, I just havnt had a chance to try one yet. If the barrel is 14.5" a Vortex, Phantom and Blackout should all be long enough to get perm attached.
website: www.spikestactical.com
email: sales@spikestactical.com
phone: 407.928.2666
fax: 866-283-2215
ChromeLined
Offline
Posts: 3478
Feedback: 97% (98)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/27/2008 10:58:56 PM EST
Are you measuring the barrel from chamber to muzzle?it may be already 16" and you can just wind a new one on.If not phantom 5C1 or SDI extended birdcage may be what your looking for.
17Z
Offline
Posts: 108
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 5:06:40 AM EST
It's a pre-ban Daewoo, 1980's carbine. Closest thing to an DI AR you can buy thats not actually an AR. South Korean K1A/Stoeger imported MAX I. Barrel is a bit over 16" with the Korean cracked suppresor. Not quite 14.5" without any hider.

Courtesy you fella's and google, I see me some likely replacements that look neat and should screw right on.

Ok. If this thing(Daewoo/Stoeger K1/MAX I) was pre-ban legal with it's old flash suppressor just screwed on, why won't it be legal with a long enough replacement screwed on?

Not that big a deal to screw on a flash hider, drill and pin, then spot weld the end of the pin. I can do that, no sweat. But do I need to permanantly fasten the hider on this carbine?

Drilling, pinning, and spot welding would be preferable to the Federal prison, this I know already!

Thanx, 17
NY_Shooter
Offline
Posts: 1402
Feedback: 100% (26)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 5:11:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By 17Z:
Ok. If this thing(Daewoo/Stoeger K1/MAX I) was pre-ban legal with it's old flash suppressor just screwed on, why won't it be legal with a long enough replacement screwed on?


Pre-ban status has nothing to do with barrel length.

Federal law says, unless you have a $200 tax stamp, allowing you to own an SBR, you're barrel must be at least 16".....period.

Permanently attached muzzle devices do = barrel length, if you need that.
BumpFireNHaveMoreFun
Offline
Posts: 907
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 5:18:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2008 5:22:58 AM EST by BumpFireNHaveMoreFun]
Originally Posted By 17Z:
It's a pre-ban Daewoo, 1980's carbine. Closest thing to an DI AR you can buy thats not actually an AR. South Korean K1A/Stoeger imported MAX I. Barrel is a bit over 16" with the Korean cracked suppresor. Not quite 14.5" without any hider.

Courtesy you fella's and google, I see me some likely replacements that look neat and should screw right on.

Ok. If this thing(Daewoo/Stoeger K1/MAX I) was pre-ban legal with it's old flash suppressor just screwed on, why won't it be legal with a long enough replacement screwed on?

Not that big a deal to screw on a flash hider, drill and pin, then spot weld the end of the pin. I can do that, no sweat. But do I need to permanantly fasten the hider on this carbine?

Drilling, pinning, and spot welding would be preferable to the Federal prison, this I know already!

Thanx, 17



Okay so w/o a hider it's just under 14.5 then you need to get 2" flash hider (soory I said 1.5" the first time.) I think the standard is 2 3/8" for hiders of that length.

What you need to do...

#1 - get that upper out of your house and take it to someone you trust whould doesn't own any AR-15 rifles. DO THIS NOW!

#2 - get that Vortex that the guys were talking about or something of comperable length. Test fit it and measure the length again with the cleaning rod and the bolt closed. If with the bolt closed, it measures 16" or longer then you need to get it perminantly attached. A lot of guys around here mail theirs to ADCO. But if you have a gunshop you trust, they should be able to give you the number of the people they use for this job or perhaps even have a gunsmith on staff that can do it. DO NOT take it to a machine shop...this is a little more specialized than welding a muffler on your car.

Of course if the flash hider you find as a replacement doesn't measure 16" or longer with the barrel you need toi keep shopping and find one that does. B/c in this game of inches, fractions count, there's no "rounding up", and the difference can land you in prison.

EDIT: If this gun was produced prior to the 1986 National Firearms Act, I don't know if that makes a difference. However, I doubt it. Better to be safe than sorry.
ArmedSuspect
Member
Offline
Posts: 740
Feedback: 100% (13)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 6:16:04 AM EST

ok, first off i say vortex if it'll work with the length in question.

now let's get to the barrel issue.

i know that the K2's have a barrel length of 465mm = 18.31 inches.
i know you said that you have a K1. the K1/K1A's are the shorter "carbine" DI versions. the K1 is listed as having a barrel length of 263mm = 10.35 inches. i can't find any better info on the K1 barrels.

do you have any pics of said weapon?
are you measuring correctly?
i ask because it's odd that you have a sub 16" Daewoo. not impossible but just odd. the gun ban of 1989 put a halt on all of the Daewoo's for a while and when it was cleared up the 16" rule was definitely in effect.



if your gona shoot it, you might as well kill it.
slappomatt
Member
Offline
Posts: 370
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 6:26:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By BumpFireNHaveMoreFun:
Originally Posted By 17Z:
It's a pre-ban Daewoo, 1980's carbine. Closest thing to an DI AR you can buy thats not actually an AR. South Korean K1A/Stoeger imported MAX I. Barrel is a bit over 16" with the Korean cracked suppresor. Not quite 14.5" without any hider.

Courtesy you fella's and google, I see me some likely replacements that look neat and should screw right on.

Ok. If this thing(Daewoo/Stoeger K1/MAX I) was pre-ban legal with it's old flash suppressor just screwed on, why won't it be legal with a long enough replacement screwed on?

Not that big a deal to screw on a flash hider, drill and pin, then spot weld the end of the pin. I can do that, no sweat. But do I need to permanantly fasten the hider on this carbine?

Drilling, pinning, and spot welding would be preferable to the Federal prison, this I know already!

Thanx, 17



Okay so w/o a hider it's just under 14.5 then you need to get 2" flash hider (soory I said 1.5" the first time.) I think the standard is 2 3/8" for hiders of that length.

What you need to do...

#1 - get that upper out of your house and take it to someone you trust whould doesn't own any AR-15 rifles. DO THIS NOW!

#2 - get that Vortex that the guys were talking about or something of comperable length. Test fit it and measure the length again with the cleaning rod and the bolt closed. If with the bolt closed, it measures 16" or longer then you need to get it perminantly attached. A lot of guys around here mail theirs to ADCO. But if you have a gunshop you trust, they should be able to give you the number of the people they use for this job or perhaps even have a gunsmith on staff that can do it. DO NOT take it to a machine shop...this is a little more specialized than welding a muffler on your car.

Of course if the flash hider you find as a replacement doesn't measure 16" or longer with the barrel you need toi keep shopping and find one that does. B/c in this game of inches, fractions count, there's no "rounding up", and the difference can land you in prison.

EDIT: If this gun was produced prior to the 1986 National Firearms Act, I don't know if that makes a difference. However, I doubt it. Better to be safe than sorry.


and hide your dogs....
My strongest opinions are on things I know very little about. so take it all with alot of salt! :)
17Z
Offline
Posts: 111
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 6:43:17 AM EST
The K1/MAX I carbines I've seen are all just like this one. The barrel and hider together make for a 16 1/4" tube.

The ROK K1/K1A(K1A1?) was a shorty for sure. You must be getting your specs for barrel length from Korean military specs. The MAX I is substantialy longer barreled for US legal sale. Or it was legal for importation until 1989 or so. Then it becomes one of the specified "no-no" guns! Way too evil a gun to even contemplate a civilian owning one of these babys.

So just when did the permantly mounted flash hider thing come into play?

What a farce! I can't even repair my own legal gun back to stock without worrying about running afoul of the ATF.

http://www.riflesnguns.com/assault/daewoo/k1

Not the best link, tiny pics and all, but this shows a ROK military version, and what appears to be a longer barrelled MAX I on the same page.

Russ4777
Member
Offline
Posts: 2060
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 7:16:53 AM EST
Go here. There are several options for long suppressors or brakes.

http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/page/page/29585.htm
1st Cav Div, B 5/7
Vietnam/Cambodia
1970
shadowcop
Member
Offline
Posts: 3690
Feedback: 100% (62)
Link To This Post
Posted: 12/28/2008 7:26:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/28/2008 7:29:06 AM EST by shadowcop]
With a detachable muzzle break or flash hider, and a 14.5" barrel, it is not legal without paying SAM $200 or perm attaching a FH.
"Better to die for something than live for nothing"