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Yeah you don't want to ride the charging handle forward. What did you do for an optic? I think I wanna go with an Aimpoint type with a magnifier but I don't have that kind of cash right now due to Christmas coming up and my kid comes first so I'm going with the Primary Arms M3 clone with a 3x magnifier. I figure it'll be a cheaper way to find out if I really like that style optic and the kid can still get lots of goodies under the tree. |
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Strange thread.........almost seems like a bunch of second accounts...... I second this statement. Alot of very low post counts from people praising this rifle. I'll also raise an eyebrow to this thread... +1 first thing i noticed Because post count means what? Does having a higher post account make ones experiences more validated? Here's a surprise, some of us spend less time online actually using our guns than online defending our purchase. What I notice more is people talking shit about a product the only experience they have with it is reading about it. In my experience, on this forum, individuals who have held an account here for 5 or more years with 10,000+ posts tend to know a little bit more about what is quality due to their experience than individuals with >500 posts. Just simple facts, but their are exceptions of course. I highly doubt anyone who uses their guns so much that they can't get online and talk about it, are using a gun as stripped down as the one talked about in this thread. Post count is less important than actual experience with the rifle in question. In most cases, the folks who have responded with actual experience tell us enough to give us a feel for what weight we should give their experience. For example, saying something like: '500 rounds through mine with no issues' tells us that one person is getting good results but has not yet put a lot of rounds through it. That rifle could wind up to be a winner or a dog –– too early to tell. What we do know is that it is not a dog yet. I personally give more weight to an account like this coming from a guy with 13 posts than a post from a guy with 25,000 posts saying something like: 'its a POS. Do it right the first time and buy a Colt'. That person may have a high post count, and he might even have a lot of experience with ARs, but he has not conveyed that he has any actual experience with the rifle in question. There is no reason to disparage a person or his account based on post count. To do so is childish. Just take what that person has to say and form your own opinion. For what it is worth, I have one of these Sporticals and have put roughly 1700 rounds through it. That is not a shit-ton of ammo through it, but I can tell you that it still has not given me a single hiccup. It is surprisingly accurate, and a pure pleasure to shoot. It may be my favorite rifle to bring to the range. It would not be my first choice as a SHTF gun or a home defense gun, but I would use it in such situations with confidence –– based on my personal experience with that particular gun. For anyone looking for a fun to shoot, inexpensive, reliable gun to bring to the range, do some hunting, and even put by the bed at night because you just don't know what might happen, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this rifle. Now, take what I have said and form your own opinion. Leave my low post count out of it. My FIRST post here... New Sporticle owner. 1) I don't expect any combat situations in Treasure Island, FL. At least not until the second term... 2) I spend more money on dates (with real women) than guns. 3) I've never seen a forward assist, or a dust-cover, employed in competition. I plan on upgrading to a free-float tube, and a better trigger, and shooting the SH__ out of his little bugger... at paper and steel, and maybe a hog, all inside 200yards... 99% of the people on this forum are NOT deployed in a world hot-spot, will never be in a hot-spot, and will never fire their AR at anything BUT paper or plates. But they slam guns worth less than $2000 designed for combat in Iraq. PS... I bought mine on gunbroker for $635. Yeah... less $ than your optic... that's good to 100ft under water... If my AR is ever 100ft under water, its because it fell off the side of my boat. Welcome to the forum to me!!! JeffWard |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else.
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... The part that is laughable is using the word "sucks" when compared to rifles in the SAME PRICE RANGE. To claim or state that there is a difference in quality is far more believable than saying that the DPMS product "sucks" by comparison. Unhelpful BS. |
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I've had one since July '07. It eats whatever I feed it. Wolf, reloads, brass cased whatever... It doesn't see much dust and is really light. I don't know about this supposed DPMS quality issue. From reading the forums, it's seems that people who pay $1200 for a rifle really hate $600 rifles. and the people with $600 rifles like theirs just fine. No, I haven't done a carbine course with it. Nor do I intend to. For every post whore who slams DPMS, I see just as many morons go out and spend $3,500 on some precision tack driver, and then not lube it and break it in with shitty ammo. Then they wonder why it jams... must be the manufacturers fault. Buy it, Shoot it, Enjoy! |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. Your unwillingness to listen to those with more experience than you is laughable at best. There are much better options for the exact same price or only slightly more. I guess we should listen to someone like you instead who has a few thousands rounds downrange rather than those who have millions of rounds downrange. You really need to stop talking so much and learn to listen. You "might" gain some knowledge in the process. I find it interesting that you always disregard some of the most knowledgeable people in the business yet you take words from a DPMS rep who's trying to sell their product as if it were the Bible |
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DPMS doesn't have the greatest reputation for reliability. suppose it depends on whether it'sa potential self defense gun or a shoot beer cans once in awhile gun. Personally I don't care for carbines with no front sight and the lack of a dust cover could be an issue depending on what he wants it for www.dpmsinc.com/firearms/image.aspx?id=91&type=large I do like the barrel profile. No brass deflector either I'm guessing not chrome lined I am surprised that you, site staff, would bash DPMS, they obviously pay good money to advertise here (see DPMS icon above). Anyways, I just finished a build using the same upper receiver and a lot of other DPMS parts. I like DPMS, I've never had a problem with there quality, however I handled one of those "pardus" stocks on a carbine at a show last week, it was so tight on the tube that I, a 200 pound body builder, had to use a lot of effort to extend it after I pushed it in. Others have reported them being loose, go figure. As long as he gets the Sportical for a good price, it's a good gun. BTW, I always wanted a tuber and was sadened to hear they had discontinued it before I could buy one. I have (2) DPMS rifles and I love them both..... DPMS makes good rifles. I just don't get what the put down on DPMS!!!! I would proudly use my rifles in the SHTF situations with all dependability. I guess you need to show me STATS that they make bad guns. I have personal experience that the rifles that I have from them kick butt!!! |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. Ask Pat Rogers about DPMS. |
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Quoted: Um, no, but if it upsets you believe whatever you wish.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. |
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3) I've never seen a forward assist, or a dust-cover, employed in competition. I plan on upgrading to a free-float tube, and a better trigger, and shooting the SH__ out of his little bugger... at paper and steel, and maybe a hog, all inside 200yards... Part of my routine for a chamber check is to partially retract the bolt, check for a cartridge, release the charging handle, push the forward assist twice to ensure it is seated, and then close the dust cover. I'll do this when staging my rifle at a 3-gun match. I learned it during a carbine class from an instructor with experience as a police emergency response team member and police trainer. YMMV. |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. Your unwillingness to listen to those with more experience than you is laughable at best. There are much better options for the exact same price or only slightly more. I guess we should listen to someone like you instead who has a few thousands rounds downrange rather than those who have millions of rounds downrange. You really need to stop talking so much and learn to listen. You "might" gain some knowledge in the process. I find it interesting that you always disregard some of the most knowledgeable people in the business yet you take words from a DPMS rep who's trying to sell their product as if it were the Bible This might come as a surpirse to you, but I don't consider you or some of the other folks here who like to troll my posts as 'some of the most knowleedgeable people in the buisness'. Sorry I just don't Forgive me as well when I don't worship at the church of Pat Rogers. He is entitled to his own opinion, and yes, I acknowledge he probably has witness more rounds fired than most people, but for all anyone knows he could have some sort of axe to grind with certain manfucturers, so just like everything else I read on the internet, I take his opinions with a grain of salt So with that, when someone says: "and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range" they are talking out of their ass and deserve to get a as a response. |
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I hate the exposed Bolt with no dust cover, and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range. Spend his money somewhere else. laughable. DPMS does not have a good reputation among people who work on ARs or who see them in carbine classes. They make some interesting stuff and are nice guys and all, but... I think it's more like, DPMS doesn't have a good reputation on ARFCOM because some people are to quick to believe everything they read on the internet. See above highlighted post for a perfect example. Your unwillingness to listen to those with more experience than you is laughable at best. There are much better options for the exact same price or only slightly more. I guess we should listen to someone like you instead who has a few thousands rounds downrange rather than those who have millions of rounds downrange. You really need to stop talking so much and learn to listen. You "might" gain some knowledge in the process. I find it interesting that you always disregard some of the most knowledgeable people in the business yet you take words from a DPMS rep who's trying to sell their product as if it were the Bible This might come as a surpirse to you, but I don't consider you or some of the other folks here who like to troll my posts as 'some of the most knowleedgeable people in the buisness'. Sorry I just don't Forgive me as well when I don't worship at the church of Pat Rogers. He is entitled to his own opinion, and yes, I acknowledge he probably has witness more rounds fired than most people, but for all anyone knows he could have some sort of axe to grind with certain manfucturers, so just like everything else I read on the internet, I take his opinions with a grain of salt So with that, when someone says: "and yes DPMS sucks compared to alot of other rifles out there in that price range" they are talking out of their ass and deserve to get a as a response. For your information, I wasn't including myself. However you like to argue with every moderator/site staff that disagrees with your view of DPMS (Aimless and Forest come to mind) who has more experience than you, much less Pat Rogers (who has stated he has no axe to grind, he only has a book of failures). In addition to this, ask ANY other good carbine course instructor or person who's extremely knowledgeable in the business and you'll get a very similar response. For some reason you ignore every single one of these guys, listen only to a DPMS rep, as well as your very limited personal experience. If you think I'm stupid enough to be fooled into thinking know what you're talking about all I have to do is see your accuracy groups at 50 yards in another thread. I wish you would just realize your experience level and stop posting above it. At this point I doubt that's ever going to happen. |
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You are a funny fellow. I'm glad you take such interest in my posts in various forums on this site. However, don't pretend you know anything about me or my 'experience' with anything because you have no clue.
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People disagreeing with you aren't "trolling" you. Take it easy.
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WOW, reading this thread makes me feel like this guy ––––––––>
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im gonna have to recommend stag. not much more $ and a very good reputation
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Apology - Pat Rogers - Members in General on this thread
Earlier today I posted a comment on here that I got suspended for. It was NOT intentional as in I did not know who "Pat Rogers" even is. I thought that someone was referring to someone that reviewed ARs on TV or something. Anyways I found out the hard way that he is actually a very good member and supporter on this FORUM.....ummm.....opppsss.....I don't know who this person is and I did not mean to make a ignorant statement. My post has been deleted and I am just coming out and say, I made a mistake. I have respect to everyone and most importantly Pat Rogers. Pat, if you did read my post......it was NOT directed to you personally on here. I apologize and I hope that you understand that I did not know who you are or meant to upset you. Your opinions are just important as everyone else. Now back to your general discussion!!!!! I do like the DPMS rifles and if people state that they feel that the quality is not good enough, I guess I need to get a different type to see the difference. I have a bushmaster and I see no difference in the quality. Please explain what the differences are? What am I missing here? Show me the differences? Would this mean a difference in a battle? If so what? |
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Apology - Pat Rogers - Members in General on this thread Earlier today I posted a comment on here that I got suspended for. It was NOT intentional as in I did not know who "Pat Rogers" even is. I thought that someone was referring to someone that reviewed ARs on TV or something. Anyways I found out the hard way that he is actually a very good member and supporter on this FORUM.....ummm.....opppsss.....I don't know who this person is and I did not mean to make a ignorant statement. My post has been deleted and I am just coming out and say, I made a mistake. I have respect to everyone and most importantly Pat Rogers. Pat, if you did read my post......it was NOT directed to you personally on here. I apologize and I hope that you understand that I did not know who you are or meant to upset you. Your opinions are just important as everyone else. Now back to your general discussion!!!!! I do like the DPMS rifles and if people state that they feel that the quality is not good enough, I guess I need to get a different type to see the difference. I have a bushmaster and I see no difference in the quality. Please explain what the differences are? What am I missing here? Show me the differences? Would this mean a difference in a battle? If so what? I don't know what you said about Mr. Rogers, but that is just water under the bridge at this point. I know who he is, but I don't know him personally. As such, I can only make judgements on what he thinks about specific brands from what he has written. It has been a while since I read through the forty something pages of the epic "what breaks in a carbine course", but IIRC he only makes one isolated negative comment about a DPMS that he saw break on the course. In fact, I think he made the point at one point that he really just doesn't see many DPMS's coming through the course. That is point #1. Point #2: He really takes "hobby" guns to task. By that, I think he means guns that guys put together from parts and never even bother to put them through their paces before showing up for a course. No specific mention of DPMS. Point #3: He recommends a short list of manufactures that he personally believes make high quality guns based on his observations. It will surprise nobody who has not read through this stuff that DPMS is not one of those on his short list. That said, the fact that DPMS is not on that list is a far cry from a declaration that DPMS is "shit" or "junk". Point #4: He says that over time he has seen fewer and fewer quality issues with the guns that guys show up with at his courses. He speculates that this is because more and more people are getting the message and are showing up with better equipment. I speculate that this is part of the answer. The other part of the answer is that over the years the industry has matured. Across the board, manufacturers are making better stuff than they were when Mr. Rogers first started training folks and compiling his observations. I continue to be amazed at how many folks invoke Mr. Rogers' name and make claims about DPMS quality that are just plain not supported by his posts. Maybe I am missing something and just need to find something else he has written. |
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Apology - Pat Rogers - Members in General on this thread Earlier today I posted a comment on here that I got suspended for. It was NOT intentional as in I did not know who "Pat Rogers" even is. I thought that someone was referring to someone that reviewed ARs on TV or something. Anyways I found out the hard way that he is actually a very good member and supporter on this FORUM.....ummm.....opppsss.....I don't know who this person is and I did not mean to make a ignorant statement. My post has been deleted and I am just coming out and say, I made a mistake. I have respect to everyone and most importantly Pat Rogers. Pat, if you did read my post......it was NOT directed to you personally on here. I apologize and I hope that you understand that I did not know who you are or meant to upset you. Your opinions are just important as everyone else. Now back to your general discussion!!!!! I do like the DPMS rifles and if people state that they feel that the quality is not good enough, I guess I need to get a different type to see the difference. I have a bushmaster and I see no difference in the quality. Please explain what the differences are? What am I missing here? Show me the differences? Would this mean a difference in a battle? If so what? I don't know what you said about Mr. Rogers, but that is just water under the bridge at this point. I know who he is, but I don't know him personally. As such, I can only make judgements on what he thinks about specific brands from what he has written. It has been a while since I read through the forty something pages of the epic "what breaks in a carbine course", but IIRC he only makes one isolated negative comment about a DPMS that he saw break on the course. In fact, I think he made the point at one point that he really just doesn't see many DPMS's coming through the course. That is point #1. Point #2: He really takes "hobby" guns to task. By that, I think he means guns that guys put together from parts and never even bother to put them through their paces before showing up for a course. No specific mention of DPMS. Point #3: He recommends a short list of manufactures that he personally believes make high quality guns based on his observations. It will surprise nobody who has not read through this stuff that DPMS is not one of those on his short list. That said, the fact that DPMS is not on that list is a far cry from a declaration that DPMS is "shit" or "junk". Point #4: He says that over time he has seen fewer and fewer quality issues with the guns that guys show up with at his courses. He speculates that this is because more and more people are getting the message and are showing up with better equipment. I speculate that this is part of the answer. The other part of the answer is that over the years the industry has matured. Across the board, manufacturers are making better stuff than they were when Mr. Rogers first started training folks and compiling his observations. I continue to be amazed at how many folks invoke Mr. Rogers' name and make claims about DPMS quality that are just plain not supported by his posts. Maybe I am missing something and just need to find something else he has written. Yes, you need to read more of what he has written. Try www.lightfighter.net He mentions a few companies (DPMS is just one of them) that are ok for some people but not what he would consider for real world use. He mentions quite a few times that there are specific companies that build to a much higher standard than others. I don't think most people consider DPMS to be junk, since they are fine for many people, but to say they're just as good as other top manufacturers is inaccurate and not supported by those who have the most experience. |
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well all i know is my dpms works fine shooting the 62gr cheapo silver bear when i go to the range once a month. i can't complain for the price :)
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My next door neighbor, the old retired guy, has a Sportical and loves it. Its all the rifle he needs for casual shooting at the range. It looks fine. He swapped out that Pardus stock thing for a MagPul and hes a happy camper. I have fired it and didn't notice anything different between it and my RRAs actually. Now, its not made to be a heavy-duty combat gun. It doesn't have a forward assist, but to be honest, the only time I ever needed to use one of those was years ago on my M16 riding in a APC in the dust with a very dirty rifle that needed service. Since that time I have never required the use of the forward assist, or the dust cover for that matter, but maybe you have and that is cool, your gun should have one.
The Sportical is not top of the line in anyone's book, neither is it "junk". Its a basic, entry level rifle just as DPMS said it was. No sense in beating people up if they are happy with theirs. After all, we all have different expectations and wants. You buy what you want for you, let the next guy pick for himself. To a casual shooter who finds the Sportical to be all he needs that extra two or three hundred bucks for a "better" rifle will buy a lot of other stuff they really want and need. Give'um a break, they are happy with their Sporticals. |
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how did he get the castle nut off? i bent one of my wrenches trying to remove it lol (the castle nut wrench). i would like to replace my stock as well :). i have to get a new buffer yes? i think its a commercial one on there.
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I have a couple of the cheapo DPMS 16" bull barrel uppers,built on the low pro uppers. I shit canned the factory oval hard plastic handguards as they were'nt for me. Other than that with 223 handloads with Berger 52's and RL-10, Rem. 7 1/2's they are good to go, especially for the cost!
I like good shootin beater stuff as I tend to neglect mud,rain,snow and other needs! yep I'm lazy at times. I guess thats why I like those ugly cheap Steven's rifles also. |
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how did he get the castle nut off? i bent one of my wrenches trying to remove it lol (the castle nut wrench). i would like to replace my stock as well :). i have to get a new buffer yes? i think its a commercial one on there. You only need to replace the stock body itself & not the tube if you are remaining with a collapsible stock. |
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[ Yes, you need to read more of what he has written. Try www.lightfighter.net He mentions a few companies (DPMS is just one of them) that are ok for some people but not what he would consider for real world use. He mentions quite a few times that there are specific companies that build to a much higher standard than others. I don't think most people consider DPMS to be junk, since they are fine for many people, but to say they're just as good as other top manufacturers is inaccurate and not supported by those who have the most experience. When I get some spare time I will probably do just that. That said, you haven't pointed out anything above that I didn't already glean from the stuff posted on this forum. From your comments above, I think we see eye to eye. Never argued that DPMS was "as good as.....". I will definitely argue that they are great value though and for the vast majority of folks that own/shoot ARs they will never know the difference. |
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I have the sportical and love it. It goes bang every time I want it to, no complaints.
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[ Yes, you need to read more of what he has written. Try www.lightfighter.net He mentions a few companies (DPMS is just one of them) that are ok for some people but not what he would consider for real world use. He mentions quite a few times that there are specific companies that build to a much higher standard than others. I don't think most people consider DPMS to be junk, since they are fine for many people, but to say they're just as good as other top manufacturers is inaccurate and not supported by those who have the most experience. When I get some spare time I will probably do just that. That said, you haven't pointed out anything above that I didn't already glean from the stuff posted on this forum. From your comments above, I think we see eye to eye. Never argued that DPMS was "as good as.....". I will definitely argue that they are great value though and for the vast majority of folks that own/shoot ARs they will never know the difference. I do think we see mostly eye to eye. Sorry, the last part wasn't directed at you, more of a general statement about some who think a DPMS is the same quality as a BCM or Colt. You should definitely try lightfiighter out though. The vast majority of the members there are extremely knowledgeable and experienced which makes learning new info very easy. |
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how did he get the castle nut off? i bent one of my wrenches trying to remove it lol (the castle nut wrench). i would like to replace my stock as well :). i have to get a new buffer yes? i think its a commercial one on there. You only need to replace the stock body itself & not the tube if you are remaining with a collapsible stock. no i want to remove teh castle nut to put a asp plate on by magpul. also the stock i want for it is mil spec. the buffer tube is commercial though so its got to go! |
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I recently got a Sportical to use as the platform for a .22 LR gun. Using it with a .22 conversion. No need for Fwd Asst or Brunton bump. Light gun. None of my other .22s have a dust cover.
MHO, YMMV, etc. |
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i have nothing bad to say about DPMS I am using one of their lowers on my m4gery defense gun and have had both the sportical and lo-pro classic and both were very good for the money.
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