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gorvibub
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Posted: 9/1/2008 7:44:38 PM

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a friend and i are looking at either buying or building a .22 LR upper and wanted to know what is considered the best choice from what's available.

i have read up on the new Spikes Tactical dedicated .22 uppers and they look good (even has a 1-16 twist) but i don't know much about the conversion unit that they use in their upper. not sure how they compare with the Ciener (spelling?) kits or others available. i know i don't want a Ciener kit because i just don't like the owner!

CMMG has a new conversion unit which appears to be an exact copy of the Ciener kit but i am not sure if that makes it better than the Spikes Tactical unit. CMMG is not making complete uppers yet but say they will soon but i think they are going with a 1-12 twist which should work but would the 1-16 twist Spikes uses be better?

last idea was to build my own upper with all Colt parts and a Colt conversion unit but i know absolutely nothing about the Colt unit other than they used to make one.

any advice or experiences you have with .22 uppers would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
thatguy
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Posted: 9/1/2008 8:34:24 PM
I have a RCS upper that I like.. It uses a Ciener conversition kit, with a different chamber adapter... It has a 10/22 barrel (1/16 twist) and a free floated handguard..

Look here RCS 22 Upper for some pictures

Brian
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/1/2008 11:36:48 PM

Originally Posted By thatguy:
I have a RCS upper that I like.. It uses a Ciener conversition kit, with a different chamber adapter... It has a 10/22 barrel (1/16 twist) and a free floated handguard..

Look here RCS 22 Upper for some pictures

Brian


thanks for the link's, i will look into those. currently i am leaning towards one of the Spike's Tactical M4 .22 uppers but i am still looking for opinions from owners of the Spike's upper or other set ups.
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:30:19 AM
bump for the morning crew.

with the price of ammo being what it is there has to be people shooting conversion units or dedicated uppers. share your experience or knowledge on the subject. thanks.
4m4s
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Posted: 9/2/2008 8:01:02 AM
I went with a KKF bbl. and an unmodified ciener. Good accuracy and has not had a weapon related failure since I put together about 12000 rnds. ago. I built another using a CMMG 1/12 twist lightweight bbl. and an unmodified ciener. not quite as accurate but suitable for plinking. It too is 100% reliable. From what I've read here most of these other kits can be hit or miss. Follow some of the ongoing threads in rimfire, pistol caliber forum. I would build my own.
NVBGear
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:00:58 AM
The Tacsol and Spikes kits are modernized JAC style BCG's, but instead of having the chamber insert to work in a .223 barrel they are chambered for the 22lr.
Nate



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chainshaw
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:41:38 AM
Bookhound is raving about the new Tactical Solutions upper. If it is anywhere near as nice as the rest of their products, it will be a winner.
edlmann
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:43:50 AM

Originally Posted By gorvibub:
a friend and i are looking at either buying or building a .22 LR upper and wanted to know what is considered the best choice from what's available.


First, let me recommend the Rimfire & Pistol Caliber Forum.

"best choice" will depend on your goals.

For accuracy shooters, many consider the dedicated .22LR upper from Compass Lake Engineering to be state of the art. Bring $$$.
Rollin_03
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Posted: 9/2/2008 10:49:30 AM
I'm a Spike's M4 owner. I have about 800rds though it and it is AWESOME!
I don't know about the other uppers and conversion kits, so I can't comment on them. The Spike's Tactical upper is very well built and seems pretty accurate. I haven't put the rifle on a bag and actually measured groups, but I hit where I aim. Fit and finish on my Stag lower are very good. Quality is excellent (well built and sturdy) and reliability is AWESOME! Like I said, I have about 800 rds through it and I've only had one failure to extract (in the 1st magazine) which I believe was a result of user error. Clean up couldn't be easier. I wipe the bolt and run a boresnake through the barrel. A detail clean may be necessary in 1,500-2,000 rounds. The finish on the bolt and rails is probably the secret to it's amazing reliability. The finish is very smooth and "slick" I lube it very lightly out of habit but I don't think it needs it. I want to do a more detailed write-up, but I haven't devoted the time yet. After reading your post I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. The upper is worth the wait and I highly, highly recommend the Spike's Tactical dedicated upper.

Rollin
Eeeew, do you smell that?
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:29:20 PM

Originally Posted By chainshaw:
Bookhound is raving about the new Tactical Solutions upper. If it is anywhere near as nice as the rest of their products, it will be a winner.


i knew i was forgetting one. the Tactical Solutions upper looks like another serious candidate. the M4 style upper (or maybe an A2) is what we are both looking for. we just want a reliable .22 KISS set up to match some of our 5.5 rifles.

i tried a search for bookhound's post but did not get any hits. do you remember what forum it was in or about when it was posted? thanks.
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:35:05 PM

Originally Posted By NVBGear:
The Tacsol and Spikes kits are modernized JAC style BCG's, but instead of having the chamber insert to work in a .223 barrel they are chambered for the 22lr.


i did not know the Spike's was also models after the JAC unit. that is good to know since the JAC units have a good reputation even if the owner doesn't.

do you think there is any quality difference between the Spike's and the Tascol? i know Spikes has a nickle coating which should help it stay cleaner but the Tascol web sight was a little sparse so i don't know what they are coated with.
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:43:12 PM

Originally Posted By 4m4s:
I went with a KKF bbl. and an unmodified ciener. Good accuracy and has not had a weapon related failure since I put together about 12000 rnds. ago. I built another using a CMMG 1/12 twist lightweight bbl. and an unmodified ciener. not quite as accurate but suitable for plinking. It too is 100% reliable. From what I've read here most of these other kits can be hit or miss. Follow some of the ongoing threads in rimfire, pistol caliber forum. I would build my own.


i did not know there was a rim fire forum here but i just found it, thanks!

that was one of the reasons i considered building one myself, i have read a few reports of the dedicated uppers being a little finicky about ammo. i don't mind buying good .22 ammo but i don't want to get stuck using one type because that is all my gun will shoot.

even if i build one i will still need to decide what conversion unit to use since i wont buy a JAC unit.
shadowcop
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:44:54 PM
[Last Edit: 9/2/2008 7:48:21 PM by shadowcop]
Spikes. You won't look back. I use mine as a low cost traing weapon. Heres mine with a 5.5" barrel.
There is a solution
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:46:33 PM

Originally Posted By edlmann:

Originally Posted By gorvibub:
a friend and i are looking at either buying or building a .22 LR upper and wanted to know what is considered the best choice from what's available.


First, let me recommend the Rimfire & Pistol Caliber Forum.

"best choice" will depend on your goals.

For accuracy shooters, many consider the dedicated .22LR upper from Compass Lake Engineering to be state of the art. Bring $$$.


thanks for pointing out the rim fire forum and posting a link! i know the Compass Lake uppers are nice but we already have scoped tack drivers in .22 this time we want something to match a KISS carbine. i should have stated that in the original post.
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:54:04 PM

Originally Posted By Rollin_03:
I'm a Spike's M4 owner. I have about 800rds though it and it is AWESOME!
I don't know about the other uppers and conversion kits, so I can't comment on them. The Spike's Tactical upper is very well built and seems pretty accurate. I haven't put the rifle on a bag and actually measured groups, but I hit where I aim. Fit and finish on my Stag lower are very good. Quality is excellent (well built and sturdy) and reliability is AWESOME! Like I said, I have about 800 rds through it and I've only had one failure to extract (in the 1st magazine) which I believe was a result of user error. Clean up couldn't be easier. I wipe the bolt and run a boresnake through the barrel. A detail clean may be necessary in 1,500-2,000 rounds. The finish on the bolt and rails is probably the secret to it's amazing reliability. The finish is very smooth and "slick" I lube it very lightly out of habit but I don't think it needs it. I want to do a more detailed write-up, but I haven't devoted the time yet. After reading your post I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. The upper is worth the wait and I highly, highly recommend the Spike's Tactical dedicated upper.

Rollin


great review, thanks. i am doing a lot of reading on them right now in their forum. the fact that they have a forum here is a big + for them. if i go with a factory dedicated upper instead of building my own it will most likely be a Spikes or a Tacsol upper. i just need to do more research on the Tacsol uppers.
RABIDFOX50
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:54:23 PM
SPIKE'S TACTICAL dedicated .22LR uppers. Nuff said!
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NVBGear
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Posted: 9/2/2008 7:56:24 PM

Originally Posted By gorvibub:

Originally Posted By NVBGear:
The Tacsol and Spikes kits are modernized JAC style BCG's, but instead of having the chamber insert to work in a .223 barrel they are chambered for the 22lr.


i did not know the Spike's was also models after the JAC unit. that is good to know since the JAC units have a good reputation even if the owner doesn't.

do you think there is any quality difference between the Spike's and the Tascol? i know Spikes has a nickle coating which should help it stay cleaner but the Tascol web sight was a little sparse so i don't know what they are coated with.



Spikes had to do their own redesign and update as JAC was sending them units that required them to do a good bit of fitting to make them run. The lessons they learned has led them to their new units.

TACsols are stainless. Run very well and quite easy to clean up as well.

OT- Got to drool over a TACsol Sawtooth integral silenced AR barrel and upper today. Vey nice setup. THinking my next 22Upper will be based on that setup.
Nate



NVB Gear LLC
www.NVBGear.com
3960 Woodville Rd
Leetonia, OH 44431
07 FFL
Shop 330-482-9703
Fax 330-482-9706
sales@NVBGear.com
NVBGear@AR15.com

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shadowcop
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:04:58 PM
[Last Edit: 9/2/2008 9:06:04 PM by shadowcop]
I still have a bad feelings for my TacSol 10/22 barrel. It would never group better than 1.5" at 50 yards. Sent it back and they claimed sub 1/2" at 50 off hand.I got it back and the same results- 1.5" at 50. $250 for a 10/22 barrel should be a tack driver. I put a GM barrel on the same set up and got 1/2". Not a fan.
There is a solution
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:11:01 PM
Another plus 1 for Spike's functions well with cheep wal mart bulk 22 ammo around 13 bucks per 500, not bad I think.
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NVBGear
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:16:11 PM

Originally Posted By shadowcop:
I still have a bad feelings for my TacSol 10/22 barrel. It would never group better than 1.5" at 50 yards. Sent it back and they claimed sub 1/2" at 50 off hand.I got it back and the same results- 1.5" at 50. $250 for a 10/22 barrel should be a tack driver. I put a GM barrel on the same set up and got 1/2". Not a fan.


Did you ask them how they it bedded and what ammo ther were using to get those groups?
Nate



NVB Gear LLC
www.NVBGear.com
3960 Woodville Rd
Leetonia, OH 44431
07 FFL
Shop 330-482-9703
Fax 330-482-9706
sales@NVBGear.com
NVBGear@AR15.com

Aimpoint -Eotech - VLTOR - Magpul - Noveske
CLICKBANGBANG
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Posted: 9/2/2008 9:21:39 PM
if i was to get one it would be a spikes!
here is badazzar15 .22 and link to spikes .22 lr thread.
badazzar15
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Posted: 9/3/2008 12:34:09 AM
[Last Edit: 9/3/2008 12:37:16 AM by badazzar15]
With our New Lothar Walther barrels our Dedicated upper is going to be hard to beat.

Here is a 3 shot group with CCI Stingers. Conditions were Terrible!!

website: www.spikestactical.com
email: sales@spikestactical.com
phone: 407.928.2666
fax: 866-283-2215
gorvibub
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Posted: 9/3/2008 3:04:20 AM

Originally Posted By badazzar15:
With our New Lothar Walther barrels our Dedicated upper is going to be hard to beat.

Here is a 3 shot group with CCI Stingers. Conditions were Terrible!!

i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/LotharWatherRangereport001.jpg


are the Lother Walther barrels standard on your guns now or is it an upgrade?

i also wanted to know more about the ammo that should be used in your upper. i thought i read you should only use a specific Federal load (don't recall what load) in your upper. i must be wrong about that since the group pictured above was with CCI stingers but can i use any quality .22 ammo available? i understand that some guns just don't like some ammo and that is fine, i just don't want to end up with a upper that will only work with one or two loads.

thanks.

nicholsmf
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Posted: 9/3/2008 3:25:19 AM

Originally Posted By badazzar15:
With our New Lothar Walther barrels our Dedicated upper is going to be hard to beat.

Here is a 3 shot group with CCI Stingers. Conditions were Terrible!!

i135.photobucket.com/albums/q160/badazzar15/LotharWatherRangereport001.jpg


could you post pics of a 10 shot group and state the distance