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Posted: 1/26/2008 10:48:01 AM
Thanks 0612!
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Posted: 1/26/2008 11:31:35 AM
Any suggestions as to where to pick up a set of the parts that break down frequently? I shoot a Colt (MT, I hate NJ) but the only parts sets like that I've seen are from Bushmaster or Fulton, and I want to make sure I'm getting decent parts, not some out of spec. junk. I'd rather stick with Colt or LMT, a MPI and shot peened bolt, etc.
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Posted: 1/26/2008 11:55:55 AM
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Posted: 1/26/2008 11:57:55 AM
[Last Edit: 1/26/2008 12:04:46 PM by StevenH]
Only parts i have had fail at school is an aftermarket "match" trigger.
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Posted: 1/26/2008 12:13:08 PM
this is some awesome information. thanks for all the good info and heads up on what to watch for.
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Posted: 1/26/2008 12:20:14 PM
love the vagisil
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Posted: 1/26/2008 12:44:16 PM
[Last Edit: 1/26/2008 12:44:58 PM by Pat_Rogers]
I use to use the Vagisil for the imitation men
 that came to classes at a commercial school i worked for.However, after listening to people claiming that the gun's had to be dry, and watching the dry guns malfunction at the cyclic rate, i figured- Vitamin A and aloe can't be all bad. It works. Might not want to use it for long, but it has kept balky guns running for at least 500 rds...  |
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CB1
Bradley Gunners do it with chains
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Joined: Nov 2000  TX, USA
 Posts: 5663 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post |
Posted: 1/26/2008 1:47:52 PM
I agree with what Pat said about parts guns.
I build my own, but I buy quality parts. I don't buy from the bargin bin at gun shows. I enjoy looking for the quality parts and it takes me a while (4-5 months) to build a rifle I can trust. |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 1:53:27 PM
I agree CB1 if I am building a rifle and don't have the money to put quality parts I will wait until I do have enough money to get the best parts I can buy. When I am finished I am never surprised with the function of top notch rifle. Even a factory 6920 will quit running if it is not properly cleaned and lubricated. |
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wgjhsafT
Coming to a state near you.
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2003 PA, USA
Posts: 3069 Feedback: 100% (2) Link To This Post |
Posted: 1/26/2008 2:36:50 PM
The first class I went to I saw a lot of problems with:
Unsecured optics - EOTech fell off a guys gun Broken bolt and pin - unknown manufacture Bad parts gun - guy assembled it from Bushmaster parts but had damn near every problem you can imagine including improperly staked gas key, buffer tube coming loose, etc. Bad magazines - me, some questionable mags I brought that I hadn't planned on putting into rotation did get in and I had some minor issues from two magazines; others had issues as well. My mags were USGI and I saw some others have problems with USGI and Thermolds. Dirty guns - Second day my gun had Wolf stuck case syndrome most likely from a dirty chamber. Partner's gun destroyed his bolt (again, unknown manufacture) with the same issue during the same drill. Broken buffer retainer pin - Oly gun don't know exactly how this happened to this guy's gun Second class: Not much to speak of. I had zero issues but there was one guy who had trouble with his rifle and finished the class with an instructor's rifle. Did not get to see what the problem was and or why he had to use another rifle altogether. I also did not pay attention to other's problems here as I did during my first class. |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 2:47:10 PM
Buffer retainers break, Not often, but we see a few a year.
Cause? Lower grade parts. Parts are not parts, and those who buy cheap, generally wind up buying twice. I have a Book of Horrors that i bring to class. I haven't seen it all, bit i have photograhed a whole lot of it... |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 5:16:53 PM
Hopefully nothing will break in a class, especially if it is a rifle your life may depend on someday. Hopefully a rifle won't break in a fight for your life either, but better in class than on the street; but maybe I'm just an idealist.
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Posted: 1/26/2008 5:20:51 PM
Hey Pat - I enjoyed that article, it's full of good info. I do have a question though - what led you away from CLP? I'm a former Marine myself, and it's all I've used for years now. I respect your experience, so I was wondering what made you switch.
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ZekeMenuar
Member
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Joined: Aug 2006 OR, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2008 5:59:56 PM
That book needs to be wrapped up in a PDF file and posted here. My popcorn is ready. ZM |
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Posted: 1/26/2008 6:26:30 PM
[Last Edit: 1/27/2008 10:04:01 AM by Pat_Rogers]
Thanks for the kind words. CLP has never been what it is supposed to be (that is. all three requirements). About 5 years ago the Army comic PM stated that it shouldn't be used as a cleaner as it promotes carbon. If it promotes it as a cleaner, why doesn't it as a lube? We started looking at other stuff, and while i am not green, a non petroleum based lube makes more sense to me, especially when you think how many times you have had it on your fingers/ skin absorption. I find the EWL lasts longer, burns off slower then CLP. Edited for spell check..  |
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thedoctors308
Carbine > Shotgun
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Joined: Nov 2004 MD, USA
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Posted: 1/26/2008 11:54:24 PM
[Last Edit: 8/1/2011 11:42:35 AM by thedoctors308]
...
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Posted: 1/27/2008 7:14:41 AM
Just remember ..they all can and will break. My low enough count Colt A2 Hbar sheared it's gas key bolt. I got to FTE a few cases per mag. Staked properly from the factory ( COLT ) but either they put in screws that was out of spec ( to hard IMO ) or they improperly torqued them. But alls well that ends well. She's healthy again..
 Like been stated Quality made parts will break less....... WarDawg |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 7:23:20 AM
Casn't help you there. I don't remember ever even seeing one at class. |
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M4builder
I belong in Tech
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Joined: Apr 2007 KS, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:12:11 AM
[Last Edit: 1/27/2008 9:26:04 AM by M4builder]
Somebody should get this guy a membership.  It has the spell check. |
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wgjhsafT
Coming to a state near you.
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Joined: Feb 2003 PA, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:13:26 AM
Thanks for the info Pat Rogers!
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SamColt
Slug's liquid gas tube
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Joined: Nov 2004 NC, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:22:18 AM
I wish we had more threads that went like this one has! Great discussion.
I agree with Pat and M4 both. Bad parts make horrible carbines BUT it is possible to build a rifle that will run with the herd for a long time if the right parts are used. Last weekend I went to a gun show and picked up a spare Colt SOCOM barrel and a Colt bolt, the other 10K parts in the building I didn't consider. Does anybody know if MILITEC is synthetic or petroleum based? Pat got me thinking now - I've messed with these things for 20 yrs and had God knows what ingested by my skin over that time period.  |
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M4builder
I belong in Tech
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:37:21 AM
[Last Edit: 2/19/2008 4:22:43 PM by M4builder]
Pat_Rodgers sir, if you would:
Have you encountered any spring failures because of high rate of fire and heat? Any indications that high rates of fire cause bolt breakage? At about what point would carbon build-up cause malfunctions? I feel these questions are on topic, and only someone who has seen a lot of ARs put through the 'test' can really elaborate on them because they are the only one who can testify to the overall reliability of the system. |
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Dusty_C
Support Blackwater
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:51:17 AM
I'm curious to know if there is anyone that can read this thread and still say it's better to run an AR dry.
I wanna thank everyone, especially Mr Rogers for their info.  |
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wgjhsafT
Coming to a state near you.
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Joined: Feb 2003 PA, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:54:53 AM
That's part of the reason I think I had the Wolf case stuck in the chamber not to mention mixing Wolf ammo with XM193 during the course (although it wasn't the XM193 that got stuck I had mags loading with mixed ammo  which was my bad decision).I didn't lube the weapon throughout the day and I'm sure that if I had I wouldn't have had any problems. |
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Dusty_C
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Posted: 1/27/2008 9:59:52 AM
Oh, as far as bolt breakage goes, for anyone else. What brands are more or less prone to it? I'm working on 2 builds right now and don't have the bcgs yet. |
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