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Posted: 3/3/2021 1:59:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Brownell's has 20" FN gov't profile barrels in stock. I'm dithering between reprofiling my 20" HBAR or ordering one of these. If I wait long enough, they'll be out of stock - problem solved!
FN 20" barrels |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 3:17:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maxicon: Brownell's has 20" FN gov't profile barrels in stock. I'm dithering between reprofiling my 20" HBAR or ordering one of these. If I wait long enough, they'll be out of stock - problem solved! FN 20" barrels Add a PMAG to your cart (or anything else to get it over $250) and code MZA will take $20 off. |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 6:43:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By officerX: Add a PMAG to your cart (or anything else to get it over $250) and code MZA will take $20 off. OK, you convinced me. Added 4 Colt extractor spring sets, which made them free. |
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Posted: 3/11/2021 11:22:54 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/11/2021 5:43:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: maxicon]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maxicon: Brownell's has 20" FN gov't profile barrels in stock. I'm dithering between reprofiling my 20" HBAR or ordering one of these. If I wait long enough, they'll be out of stock - problem solved! FN 20" barrels My PSA lowers shipped and arrived; now I've scheduled the transfer with the shop, which starts the Cali 10 day waiting period... PSA: Ordered 2/22/2021, shipped 3/2/2021, arrived at the FFL 3/9/2021 The barrel - 2 lb 0.8 oz stripped:  Here are the labels on the FN barrel packaging: Yes, that's the quality of the label...  I like the Cali Prop 65 warning - This item may be dangerous to your health!  ETA barrel pic... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2021 2:56:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Damn I really want to get a FN barrel from brownells, I just dont want to go thru the hassle of getting a FSB on there.
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Posted: 3/14/2021 5:05:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VladBoho: Damn I really want to get a FN barrel from brownells, I just dont want to go thru the hassle of getting a FSB on there. 1. Buy the barrel from Brownells 2. Buy undrilled FSB here from Midway 3. Buy Colt taper pins here from Brownells 4. Send everything to John Thomas @ Retro Arms works for FSB pinning Obviously you’ll want to send him a barrel nut & handguard cap too. It’s really not that involved and you’ll have an awesome barrel. |
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Posted: 3/15/2021 2:35:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: maxicon]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C6H12O6: 1. Buy the barrel from Brownells 2. Buy undrilled FSB here from Midway 3. Buy Colt taper pins here from Brownells 4. Send everything to John Thomas @ Retro Arms works for FSB pinning Obviously you’ll want to send him a barrel nut & handguard cap too. It’s really not that involved and you’ll have an awesome barrel. This. Don't forget the delta ring and all. You can add the delta ring assy after the barrel gets back, though. It's not clear if Midway's DoubleStar FSB is the F marked version or not; the comments and reviews go both ways. Doublestar has both listed, both are out of stock. I understand modern FSBs are all F height, and some manufacturers have quit marking them with the F. |
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Posted: 3/19/2021 8:30:45 PM EDT
[#9]
If anyone is looking for an ACOG, EuroOptic has both M16A4 flavors in stock.
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Posted: 3/20/2021 8:30:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Combat_Diver: Finally got the PSA M16A4 lower on my clone. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/32677/IMG_4351_M16A4_clone_jpg-1860915.JPG CD |
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Posted: 3/20/2021 10:11:43 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maxicon: My PSA lowers shipped and arrived; now I've scheduled the transfer with the shop, which starts the Cali 10 day waiting period... PSA: Ordered 2/22/2021, shipped 3/2/2021, arrived at the FFL 3/9/2021 The barrel - 2 lb 0.8 oz stripped: https://maxicon.com/guns/ar/FN-20-in-M16A2_01b.JPG Here are the labels on the FN barrel packaging: Yes, that's the quality of the label... https://maxicon.com/guns/ar/FN-20-in-M16A2_label-02c.JPG I like the Cali Prop 65 warning - This item may be dangerous to your health! https://maxicon.com/guns/ar/FN-20-in-M16A2_label-01c.JPG ETA barrel pic... Rifle extension or M4 extension? |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 11:38:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: Rifle extension or M4 extension? The FN barrel has an M4 extension. |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:25:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By maxicon: The FN barrel has an M4 extension. Thanks - good thing I took advantage of APEX having rifle extensions a while ago. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 11:16:03 AM EDT
[#14]
I would have the world's most accurate M16A4 clone but DTSguns.com put "FULL" instead of "BURST". Other than that, it's exact. The lower has all the Sabre Defense markings and the upper is a legit Sabre Defense. It even has a real serial number from a real M16A4 with a photo to prove it. Other than that, I have every accessory that would come with this gun or would be used in the field. This includes the original Sabre Defense box, and the manual, sling and magazine still in the original wrapping. I also have the correct cleaning kit, Ontario bayonet, the correct ACOG with the Bible verse, Vickers USMC sling, buttstock mag pouch, the Surefire with original case with all the filters and original Surefire batteries, and the correct blank firing adapter. Everything is NOS in the original packaging. If only he had marked the lower correctly, it would be the most accurate M16A4 clone ever made hands down.
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Posted: 3/23/2021 11:25:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: I would have the world's most accurate M16A4 clone but DTSguns.com put "FULL" instead of "BURST". Other than that, it's exact. The lower has all the Sabre Defense markings and the upper is a legit Sabre Defense. It even has a real serial number from a real M16A4 with a photo to prove it. Other than that, I have every accessory that would come with this gun or would be used in the field. This includes the original Sabre Defense box, and the manual, sling and magazine still in the original wrapping. I also have the correct cleaning kit, Ontario bayonet, the correct ACOG with the Bible verse, Vickers USMC sling, buttstock mag pouch, the Surefire with original case with all the filters and original Surefire batteries, and the correct blank firing adapter. Everything is NOS in the original packaging. If only he had marked the lower correctly, it would be the most accurate M16A4 clone ever made hands down. Wow but that’s a huge error though. Post pics of the rest of it w/ “full” blurred out please. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 11:40:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AR_Master]
[#16]
https://ibb.co/H2kvTS9
https://ibb.co/SnV3HQG https://ibb.co/JtpdLB5 https://ibb.co/tw6gxCv https://ibb.co/hdtWskM https://ibb.co/YyQnB55 https://ibb.co/N96hpvw |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 12:43:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#17]
       Not too shabby.  CD |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 12:56:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks for the picture fix my friend. I had hell getting this thing and I wanted to post about it, but apparently there are a lot of people in these forums with attitude problems that would rather give someone a rough time than help. Thanks for your service.
USMC 98-04. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 12:59:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Someone commented that I bought it sight unseen and it's my fault I bought it with the error, but you can't see the "burst" with the weapon on safe. And I would think talking about the correct markings on a gun would be technical but apparently not.
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Posted: 3/23/2021 1:08:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: Someone commented that I bought it sight unseen and it's my fault I bought it with the error, but you can't see the "burst" with the weapon on safe. And I would think talking about the correct markings on a gun would be technical but apparently not. Relax man. It’s still cool. How’s it shoot? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 1:12:23 PM EDT
[#21]
I just got it so I don't know yet. Trying to find a range around here that does 500 yards so I can see if I still shoot Expert from the Marine Corps. Been about 15 years, lol
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 1:39:23 PM EDT
[#22]
People saying I should just return the gun, but it's only 1 out of 50 in the world with real transferred serial numbers with a GI labeled lower and correct "Sabre Defense" script. Since the civilian labels have the big cat emblem that the military versions don't have. No way do I want that huge "A" Aero Precision plasters all over their lowers as that would be unauthentic. Maybe I could get some recommendations for a good custom engraver to get my own built instead of people trashing on my posts. That would be great.
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Posted: 3/23/2021 1:53:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Combat_Diver]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: People saying I should just return the gun, but it's only 1 out of 50 in the world with real transferred serial numbers with a GI labeled lower and correct "Sabre Defense" script. Since the civilian labels have the big cat emblem that the military versions don't have. No way do I want that huge "A" Aero Precision plasters all over their lowers as that would be unauthentic. Maybe I could get some recommendations for a good custom engraver to get my own built instead of people trashing on my posts. That would be great. Who's trashing it? Its yours, not theirs. You can always do the authentic GI method. Requires some stamps and a hammer. XXXX  Attached FileRifle looks good. Relax and enjoy it. Clones are never truly 100%, always something like actual select fire or actual US Govt Property. ETA: I built my A4 clone one piece at a time. Finally replaced the Anderson lower with a PSA M16A4 lower. Started gathering my first part back in 00' I think when I acquired an A2 stock. CD |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 2:01:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Other than not being a real M16 for obvious reasons, it would be 100% external accurate, and it was military property. The upper and buttstock were owned by the man, and the real serial number was transferred over. Stamping it out and adding stuff would make the situation even worse. I have plenty of guns to enjoy but this was suppose to be totally accurate to what I served with, and be a collectors piece. Having the wrong selector markings puts a ding on that especially since I was going for the most accurate M16A4 ever built.
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Posted: 3/23/2021 2:06:58 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: Other than not being a real M16 for obvious reasons, it would be 100% external accurate, and it was military property. The upper and buttstock were owned by the man, and the real serial number was transferred over. Stamping it out and adding stuff would make the situation even worse. I have plenty of guns to enjoy but this was suppose to be totally accurate to what I served with, and be a collectors piece. Having the wrong selector markings puts a ding on that especially since I was going for the most accurate M16A4 ever built. IM sent CD |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 6:59:56 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 3/23/2021 8:10:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51067353192_f8d4ad803e_k.jpg20210321_180009 by brandon hobock, on Flickr" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51067353192_f8d4ad803e_k.jpg20210321_180009 by brandon hobock, on Flickr I guess I'm starting an A4 Whoa! That ano is dope |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 8:15:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: Other than not being a real M16 for obvious reasons, it would be 100% external accurate, and it was military property. The upper and buttstock were owned by the man, and the real serial number was transferred over. Stamping it out and adding stuff would make the situation even worse. I have plenty of guns to enjoy but this was suppose to be totally accurate to what I served with, and be a collectors piece. Having the wrong selector markings puts a ding on that especially since I was going for the most accurate M16A4 ever built. Weren't those supposed to be A3s? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:17:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wissota4: Weren't those supposed to be A3s? All the pics I saw from these uppers were A4s, but I think Sabre made A3s as well. But yes, A3 should be marked 'full' and A4 should be marked 'burst'. We Marines had A4s while I think it was the Army using the A3s. The gun comes with a photograph of the real M16A4 it was made from. It has the serial number and everything. It was marked A4. |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:19:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: All the pics I saw from these uppers were A4s, but I think Sabre made A3s as well. But yes, A3 should be marked 'full' and A4 should be marked 'burst'. We Marines had A4s while I think it was the Army using the A3s. The gun comes with a photograph of the real M16A4 it was made from. It has the serial number and everything. It was marked A4. Nothing is marked "full" that I've seen. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:37:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pezboytate: Nothing is marked "full" that I've seen. Sorry, I meant "auto". I've been saying "full" because that's what this guy put on this build. |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:52:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: All the pics I saw from these uppers were A4s, but I think Sabre made A3s as well. But yes, A3 should be marked 'full' and A4 should be marked 'burst'. We Marines had A4s while I think it was the Army using the A3s. The gun comes with a photograph of the real M16A4 it was made from. It has the serial number and everything. It was marked A4. Navy SeaBees are the only ones I’ve seen with M16A3s. They had detachable carrying handles and round hand guards. This war 05’ in Balad Iraq. Don’t remember the manufacture CD |
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Posted: 3/23/2021 10:59:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brandonbeezy: https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51067353192_f8d4ad803e_k.jpg20210321_180009 by brandon hobock, on Flickr" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51067353192_f8d4ad803e_k.jpg20210321_180009 by brandon hobock, on Flickr I guess I'm starting an A4  |
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Posted: 3/24/2021 8:37:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR_Master: All the pics I saw from these uppers were A4s, but I think Sabre made A3s as well. But yes, A3 should be marked 'full' and A4 should be marked 'burst'. We Marines had A4s while I think it was the Army using the A3s. The gun comes with a photograph of the real M16A4 it was made from. It has the serial number and everything. It was marked A4. Army would have a4 |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2021 2:16:55 PM EDT
[#35]
I'm going to convert this freebie A4 upper he gave me to an A2. I have an F type carry handle already. Just need to take the KAC off and put on the plastic handguards. I already have a new lower and A2 stock kit on the way.
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Posted: 3/24/2021 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#36]
Have the Colt ambi selectors ever been issued in any substantive quantity for USMC or Army M16A4s?
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Posted: 3/24/2021 9:50:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By C6H12O6: Have the Colt ambi selectors ever been issued in any substantive quantity for USMC or Army M16A4s? Been quite awhile since I've seen a4 being used but never did see a ambi selector. Thats army though. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2021 2:02:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Well, I finally did it... after 5-6 years of wanting to do a M16A4 clone and just not prioritizing it, I got the bug and did it!! I bought my first AR back in 1992 and through the years most of my interest has been in M4's and 10.5" to 16" guns.. with the exception of early on when I competed several times in CMP matches with a Match Target Hbar (mid-90's).
There came a time where I felt that I would never field a 20" AR for anything, so I stupidly got rid of all my pre-ban and post ban 20" guns.. and I had some nice ones. And of course 20" guns at one point were just not popular and hard to sell... I think this is when I sold them off too. LOL. Luckily I've kept most of my other guns through the years. I've always watched this thread and put it in the "one day" category... so here we are, that day has come. :). I snagged a nice Colt AR15A4 that was up for sale locally, added the KAC M5 rails, and decided to go with the LED 4X32 ACOG because I want to shoot this in all lighting conditions. I can live with the fact that it's not 100% accurate as a USMC clone if it's close and easier to shoot (no need to carry tape or worry about Tritium in the future). Here she is, at least up to this point.. Glad I finally did it. Sling and mag pouch to come shortly.   
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Posted: 3/25/2021 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 3/25/2021 3:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Creature]
[#40]
I just kiwi'ed the awful fuzzy gray buttstock on mine. I hope I don't regret doing it the next time I go shot it.
  
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Posted: 3/28/2021 9:55:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: officerX]
[#41]
She’s done, for now.
Last week I picked up the Black Creek Precision M16A4 lower I bought. It’ll be a surrogate until I get time to get the FN-engraved 80% lower milled out and sent off for anodizing. She’s a heavy pig! 12 pounds 8 ounces with 2 mags loaded with 62 grain green tips and the bayonet.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/28/2021 10:07:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By officerX: She’s done, for now. Last week I picked up the Black Creek Precision M16A4 lower I bought. It’ll be a surrogate until I get get time to get the FN-engraved 80% lower milled out and sent off for anodizing. She’s a heavy pig! 12 pounds 8 ounces with 2 mags loaded with 62 grain green tips and the bayonet. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/335460/B7F6D898-650B-4F02-99E2-9964E63D4156_jpe-1884283.JPG Beautiful. |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2021 10:05:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scrapple: I started making an M16A4 clone (planned to use a DD RIS II), and then diverted and went M16A5. Not done yet, but anyone else do this? Actually I have been plotting something like this for a few weeks and was relieved to find your post and pictures in this thread as I have a few questions about the receiver/handguard/barrel if you don't mind. -Did you have to remove the GI barrel nut and handguard retainer (and by extension the FSB) to get your barrel to mount with the VIS? -Where did you get your info about the A5 using the KM12 handguard? I think I'd prefer to get the KM12 instead of the KMSL12 like you did, but reading the technical specs of the two, it looks like the length of the handguard on the KM12 is a little longer (12.88") than the KMSL12 (12.22"). I'm sure I'm overthinking it but I can't get out of my head something I read forever ago probably on a topic about 13" rails used with 20" barres about the max handguard length that can fit between the upper and FSB on a 20" govt barrel was something like 12.65". The best case scenario would be I already had a barrel on hand to test and return the KM12 is its too long, but unfortunately I don't. Plus buying a 20" Govt profile barrel I can hold off on even if I could find one in stock, weird niche pieces like the VIS and A5 buffer assembly I want to get secured sooner rather than later. I appreciated your choice in grip btw, the VLTOR promotional picture of the A5 concept looked like it had a normal TD, but the steeper one you've got on I think is the ticket. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/6/2021 6:58:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By haharlow: Actually I have been plotting something like this for a few weeks and was relieved to find your post and pictures in this thread as I have a few questions about the receiver/handguard/barrel if you don't mind. -Did you have to remove the GI barrel nut and handguard retainer (and by extension the FSB) to get your barrel to mount with the VIS? -Where did you get your info about the A5 using the KM12 handguard? I think I'd prefer to get the KM12 instead of the KMSL12 like you did, but reading the technical specs of the two, it looks like the length of the handguard on the KM12 is a little longer (12.88") than the KMSL12 (12.22"). I'm sure I'm overthinking it but I can't get out of my head something I read forever ago probably on a topic about 13" rails used with 20" barres about the max handguard length that can fit between the upper and FSB on a 20" govt barrel was something like 12.65". The best case scenario would be I already had a barrel on hand to test and return the KM12 is its too long, but unfortunately I don't. Plus buying a 20" Govt profile barrel I can hold off on even if I could find one in stock, weird niche pieces like the VIS and A5 buffer assembly I want to get secured sooner rather than later. I appreciated your choice in grip btw, the VLTOR promotional picture of the A5 concept looked like it had a normal TD, but the steeper one you've got on I think is the ticket. Sorry for the late reply, and also that I have not posted more pictures recently. I have been very busy, but the upper is also out getting a little bit of extra work done at the moment. More pictures are coming. In the meantime, to answer your questions: -Yes of course, the barrel nut and delta ring must be removed and discarded. The proprietary VLTOR barrel nut must be used, and that is included, along with a barrel nut wrench. Therefore, the front sight block also must be removed in order to utilize that barrel nut. The hand card cap will no longer be needed, and must be discarded as well. -If you look at the pictures, the upper that they used has an extra set of brackets securing the lower rail to the rest of the assembly. Additionally, the front section is flared outwards to accommodate the now useless handguard cap. This model was never sold to the public that I know of, but the closest thing to it would be either the KM12 or KMSL12. I chose the SL because I feel it is a better design, and now that I have it, I still feel that way. However, the standard KM12 would probably be just fine. As far as the length, I don't know if it's just a different way of measuring, or if it is actually longer. A good way to check would be to look at the upper and literally count the number of slots in the picture, unless there's a picture that shows the T markings on top. That would tell you about how long it actually is. -Yes, the original pictures showed the standard BG-16. While that is a fine grip, I chose the BG-18 because I prefer a more vertical footprint, and also wanted an excuse to buy one of those. Since I was changing the stock to the UBR anyway, I figured that I could take that liberty. Mine is a loose clone representation, but if you are going for the original concept rifle look, than you will need the BG-16. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/7/2021 1:35:07 AM EDT
[#45]
I think the A2 has better engraving than the A4
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Posted: 4/7/2021 12:12:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By uniform64: I think the A2 has better engraving than the A4 https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51099949714_99ced95e64_b.jpg They are mimicking the Colt A4 roll mark which has the --------- USA ---------- as the last line. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 1:57:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HenryKnoxFineBooks: They are mimicking the Colt A4 roll mark which has the --------- USA ---------- as the last line. I urged PSA to NOT include that line business around USA when we were developing their clone lowers. I’d suggested they do an M4A1 in the “lost a customer” meme lower thread. I’d envisioned the M4A1s as a lower they’d do to comply with mil requirements... like what the guys who suggested the Black Creek A4s & A2s did. People seemed to want to copy Colt lowers and even suggested shit like slightly different pony images for a logo. I thought that was cheesy. Still bought them (M4A1 & M4) but I prefer my Black Creek A4 & A2s. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/7/2021 2:36:30 PM EDT
[#48]
It's more the font on the A4 that I don't like. I don't know why they used a different one. Good lowers otherwise
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2021 1:28:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Wanted to be sure, would a button rifled or CHF barrel be the clone correct barrel? Yeah probably picked a bad time trying to build one. Can't seem to find any barrels. Only option seems to be complete fn upper or preorder barrel assemby from tnte. The complete upper would be the best option but I already have a p&s m5 ras, aero stripped upper to go with aero a4 lower and a BCM carry handle
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Posted: 4/18/2021 8:10:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fishyjoes: Wanted to be sure, would a button rifled or CHF barrel be the clone correct barrel? Yeah probably picked a bad time trying to build one. Can't seem to find any barrels. Only option seems to be complete fn upper or preorder barrel assemby from tnte. The complete upper would be the best option but I already have a p&s m5 ras, aero stripped upper to go with aero a4 lower and a BCM carry handle Button, no M4 feedramps, F marked FSB |
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