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Basic
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Posted: 4/24/2007 10:43:08 AM EST
Im new to the world of ARs, and im not looking to spend a mint on one, but i still want a good one. I want a colt but I cant find one for much under 1000. So that leads me to think bushmaster, but are any Bushmasters under 1000 really that good? If anybody can tell me what the they think the best AR-15 under 1000 (preferably under 900, but im not going to get picky) is then please let me know.
Thanks a lot for the help,
-Dan

p.s. for recreation target shooting and home defense, no hunting
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Posted: 4/24/2007 10:51:09 AM EST
If you have the time and want to learn some new skills, build your own. For 900 you can have a totally badass AR.

Bushmasters are a bit pricey for what you get, but they are generally good rifles.

Rock River is good too, but I don't like the barrel profiles.

Stag is good as well, but not if you are looking for a *really good* AR. I know I'll get flamed for that one.

DPMS is hit and miss.

Olympic arms, there are good ones, and there are bad ones. And there is bad customer service.

Consider an RRA or Stag lower with a CMMG upper.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 10:56:48 AM EST
How can you slam Stag when they build most of the other's components???
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Posted: 4/24/2007 10:59:44 AM EST
you got lots of options

stick w/ the ABCRDS, CMT brands

i'd look into bushy, RRA, and stag myself for the price
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:02:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By storminnorman:
How can you slam Stag when they build most of the other's components???


That doesn't compute. What do you do with all the factory seconds? Throw a Type II finish on them and ship them as Stags.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:03:53 AM EST
Just when I thought I was past being surprised.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=569613&page=1
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:05:03 AM EST
Buy in TWO PARTS---this avoids the 11% excise tax on complete firearms. Get a complete lower delivered to your FFL dealer (he will charge a transfer fee) and have the complete upper of your choice delivered to your door. When you have both parts, it takes 10 seconds for assembly. Easier than legos.


I suggest you get a lower from Ameetec for $200 and a complete upper from CMMG (for around $550). Your dealer might charge $25 for the transfer. Then, with the $200 or so you saved, buy 10 mags from CProducts (20 rounders and 30 rounders) and all the ammo you can afford.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:06:09 AM EST
Not MY claim,look into it.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:07:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2007 11:08:25 AM EST by 87gn]

Originally Posted By storminnorman:
How can you slam Stag when they build most of the other's components???


The components are good, the QC on their finished rifles are not.

Their barrels (shaw) are average. Their BCGs *as shipped from stag* are not so great.

Uppers/lowers/LPKs/stocks have less bearing on the reliability or accuracy of the rifle than the above two parts.

Have you considered that a Model 1 upper is essentially a Stag upper? Not that model 1 uppers are bad - mostly they are quite good. But they are not a *very good* rifle/upper.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:15:30 AM EST
Colt uppers have to meet a standard. CMT makes uppers for Colt. Does that mean that all CMT uppers are good enough for Colt? Where do the ones that aren't go?

And the finish thing is easy enough to prove. Just call them.
"There is no right reason constituted by nature." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan, 1651
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:23:20 AM EST
I have 2 and a friend has one and the finish on our C.M.T/Stag's is exellent.(and i'm VERY picky!)
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:29:00 AM EST
Bushmaster A3
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:43:33 AM EST
I have a STAG lower and it is flawless. Maybe they just had too many in that run come out perfect so they had to sell them with the STAG name.

Originally Posted By storminnorman:
I have 2 and a friend has one and the finish on our C.M.T/Stag's is exellent.(and i'm VERY picky!)
I'm not the Canadian
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:47:43 AM EST
Just when I thought I was past being surprised.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=569613&page=1
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Posted: 4/24/2007 11:54:54 AM EST
Read the tacked threads in the build it section and build your own, you can build a very nice one with the tools for that money and you will know every part of your rifle.

I am working on a build for my son, 20" heavy barrel, t marked flat top upper, free float handguard, 4 rail gas block, vertical grip pod, laser, light, high rings and bushnell scope, engraved double star lower with the $28 trigger job for a little over $700 plus your tools will cost less than $100 leaving you room for magazines and some ammo.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 12:16:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2007 12:17:08 PM EST by JPMM]
I have a Stag and think it's every bit as good as my Colt that I paid considerably more for. That being said, I just use my AR for target shooting not for work or playing wannabe commando.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 12:19:20 PM EST
The best one for under $1k is the one you build yourself.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 12:21:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2007 12:23:32 PM EST by AR-Jim]
If you want a complete rifle under 1000, get an Armalite.

Superior quality at a great price.

Or... you can hit the EE, roll your own, and end up with EXACTLY what you want for under 1k... You just have to be patient and choose wisely.



As far as the claim on the Stags go...

Stag=CMT.

CMT=Everyone else.

Claiming that the Stag parts/rifles are 'factory seconds' without incontrovertible evidence is quite a leap in logic.

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Posted: 4/24/2007 12:46:57 PM EST
I built my RRA from the CAR kit they have offered. All that was needed was the stripped lower. $740 total. :)
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Posted: 4/24/2007 1:38:51 PM EST
For under $1000 I would go with Bushmaster. They make some really good stuff, and their guys go above and beyond to make you satisfied. My Bushy story goes like this, I needed to get some spare parts for my AR (a CMMG) I contacted bushmaster to see about pricing for these parts. The guy mistakenly thought I owned a bushmaster rifle, and sent me an email asking for my serial # so he could send me the parts. That email got sucked into my spam folder somehow (...AOL ) and I didnt see it for a week. Today I got another email and it asked why i hadnt responded to the other Email and that they would be glad to ship the parts free of charge if I gave them my serial number. I emailed them back, explaining that I didnt own a bushmaster rifle, and I just needed to know pricing so I could order the parts. They sent me an email saying "thanks for your honesty, just give us your mailing address and we will ship the parts free of charge anyway." Now that, boys and girls, is quality customer service, in that they treated someone who isnt even their customer with extreme kindness. That is also why I will be buying my next AR from bushmaster this summer.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 1:57:58 PM EST
My top three pics are Colt, Bushmaster, and Stag. In your price range Bushmaster, and Stag are the way to go. I have no idea where the poster that slammed Stag gets off . I have a Stag upper on a Bushmaster lower and the fit & finish are flawless. The rifle runs reliable and is accurate. Stag stakes their carrier keys properly, and does all the other little things that a good manufacture does. There is no better value than Stag IMHO, they are right up there with Colt in quality.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 1:58:13 PM EST
bushmaster, rock river, stag are all top notch, buy what you like and what you can afford. biulding will come next, it's the way to go. you will really learn your rifle inside and out and save cash for mags, ammo, optics, ect.... good luck
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Posted: 4/24/2007 2:02:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2007 2:06:52 PM EST by Springer1]
If you look hard enough you can find a Colt 6520 for right at $1000, only down side to that model is the handle is non-removable. Good luck !!!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=70525404
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Posted: 4/24/2007 2:39:53 PM EST
#1 Buy a FORGED lower most any will do ( complete 3 to 400 bucks)
#2 Order a complete LMT M4 upper (around 600 bucks)
#3 Slap them together


I have a Bushmaster/VLTOR lower

and a LMT M4 upper I order from BRAVOCOMPANY

The Carbine is JUST AS GOOD as My COMPLETE LMT DEFENDER 2000 M4

except my Defender has a little more extras
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Posted: 4/24/2007 3:07:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ:
#1 Buy a FORGED lower most any will do ( complete 3 to 400 bucks)
#2 Order a complete LMT M4 upper (around 600 bucks)
#3 Slap them together





Agree with most of the above, but...go with an Ameetec complete lower. They are forged and cost $200. My Ameetec is my favorite lower (I have a Bushy and RRA as well).
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Posted: 4/24/2007 3:15:04 PM EST
My Colt bushmaster LMT

they are all about the same

I can alawys find something

I hear MEGA MACHINES pretty good

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Posted: 4/24/2007 3:27:41 PM EST
Stag is TOP quality. All of mine are perfect, including the finish.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 3:50:41 PM EST
Save up for a Colt.
It will be a better investment also.

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Posted: 4/24/2007 5:13:56 PM EST
Thanks for all the replies. After reading all that im pretty sure im going to build one...sounds like a much better deal. Feel free to keep posting your opinions, i need all the input i can get.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 5:36:42 PM EST
Rock River Arms.
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Posted: 4/24/2007 5:52:34 PM EST
Just pick a model with the best Fit and finish..........and you'll have the best....
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Posted: 4/25/2007 2:05:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2007 2:39:59 PM EST by djm227]
height=8
Originally Posted By JimM44
I am working on a build for my son, 20" heavy barrel, t marked flat top upper, free float handguard, 4 rail gas block, vertical grip pod, laser, light, high rings and bushnell scope, engraved double star lower with the $28 trigger job for a little over $700 plus your tools will cost less than $100 leaving you room for magazines and some ammo.


all that for only a little over 700? i would love to know the makes of some of those accessories, since they seem to be really inexpensive, and im looking to "accessorize" mine when its finished.

Also, how does this config sound: Ameetec Complete M4 Lower Half, and a Stag-15 Complete Upper Half A.R.M.S. #40L? despite everybody burning stag, i still think the entire upper they sell WITH the Samson tactical rail is one of the best deals i have found. again, thanks for the input.
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Posted: 4/25/2007 2:10:39 PM EST
You don't really need a Colt if you want a super reliable AR.
Go with either an LMT or CMMG upper.
Then get a complete lower for 200-250$ and slap them together.
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Posted: 4/25/2007 2:41:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2007 2:43:37 PM EST by Spectre1]

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

That doesn't compute. What do you do with all the factory seconds? Throw a Type II finish on them and ship them as Stags.


That's quite a claim.


libel[1,noun]libel[2,verb]

Main Entry: 1li·bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Anglo-French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

Wow. What is your source for this "information"? Show me the proof of your claim.


ETA: The above definition was obtained from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary and is being used without explicit permission.


Did you see the size of that chicken?
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Posted: 4/25/2007 2:49:49 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By BillBond:
Save up for a Colt.
It will be a better investment also.

I do agree with this person that Colt will be the best investment, but I do not see any point in that unless you plan on selling it.
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Posted: 4/25/2007 7:59:29 PM EST
If that is where you want to take this then I retract my statement. The talk of CMT pats being out of spec is ongoing and from reliable sources. I own a CMT upper with a thin finish.

CMT may supply for Colt, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Is CMT good? Obviously good enough for me to own one. But Colt good? I dunno about that. They certainly aren't as expensive as DD or Colt uppers.
"There is no right reason constituted by nature." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan, 1651
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Posted: 4/26/2007 2:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

That doesn't compute. What do you do with all the factory seconds? Throw a Type II finish on them and ship them as Stags.


That's quite a claim.


libel[1,noun]libel[2,verb]

Main Entry: 1li·bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Anglo-French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

Wow. What is your source for this "information"? Show me the proof of your claim.


ETA: The above definition was obtained from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary and is being used without explicit permission.






Boy that Told me everything
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Posted: 4/26/2007 4:19:10 AM EST
djm227,

Here's the breakdown of some of the parts in my build, here's who I got my barrel from on gunbroker, here's a current ad for the same barrel without a compensator; I got mine from his with the compensator for another $15

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=70671905

Here's where I got my LPK, flat top upper, bcg, gas tube, gas block, free float tube;

http://www.jsesurplus.com/shoppingcart/agora.cgi?cart_id=18101.16715*Ji16J1&product=AR15_PARTS

Then I got my scope, laser, grip pod, picitinny rail from a couple different vendors on ebay.

I am making my own 3-point sling from the tacked thread here on ar15, I bought my stripped double start lowers from a local dealer. I went to a local jeweler and had his name engraved on it.

Then I just mailed off the trigger set to our guy on ar15 that does the $28 trigger jobs.

If I left anything out let me know and I'll tell where that came from, oh I already had the A2 buttstock set.
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Posted: 4/26/2007 10:32:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If that is where you want to take this then I retract my statement. The talk of CMT pats being out of spec is ongoing and from reliable sources. I own a CMT upper with a thin finish.

CMT may supply for Colt, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Is CMT good? Obviously good enough for me to own one. But Colt good? I dunno about that. They certainly aren't as expensive as DD or Colt uppers.



What parts are out of spec? What reliable sources? Help us out here.
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Posted: 4/26/2007 10:32:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By FMJ:

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

That doesn't compute. What do you do with all the factory seconds? Throw a Type II finish on them and ship them as Stags.


That's quite a claim.


libel[1,noun]libel[2,verb]

Main Entry: 1li·bel
Pronunciation: 'lI-b&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, written declaration, from Anglo-French, from Latin libellus, diminutive of liber book
1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought b archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone
2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt (2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means (3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures (4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

Wow. What is your source for this "information"? Show me the proof of your claim.


ETA: The above definition was obtained from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary and is being used without explicit permission.






Boy that Told me everything


Liked that did ya?

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Posted: 4/26/2007 11:10:01 AM EST
Tag.


To find out if reliable sources sell beef jerky at gun shows.
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Posted: 4/26/2007 11:28:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Waldo0506:
Tag.


To find out if reliable sources sell beef jerky at gun shows.


That's what I was thinking, too.

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Posted: 4/26/2007 11:36:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If that is where you want to take this then I retract my statement. The talk of CMT pats being out of spec is ongoing and from reliable sources. I own a CMT upper with a thin finish.

CMT may supply for Colt, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Is CMT good? Obviously good enough for me to own one. But Colt good? I dunno about that. They certainly aren't as expensive as DD or Colt uppers.



What parts are out of spec? What reliable sources? Help us out here.


An friend of mine has a copy of the TDP and measured a box of stag uppers. I'm not going to identify him because he is an industry professional.
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Posted: 4/26/2007 11:50:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Spectre1:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
If that is where you want to take this then I retract my statement. The talk of CMT pats being out of spec is ongoing and from reliable sources. I own a CMT upper with a thin finish.

CMT may supply for Colt, but that doesn't mean they are the same. Is CMT good? Obviously good enough for me to own one. But Colt good? I dunno about that. They certainly aren't as expensive as DD or Colt uppers.



What parts are out of spec? What reliable sources? Help us out here.


An friend of mine has a copy of the TDP and measured a box of stag uppers. I'm not going to identify him because he is an industry professional.


I thought only Colt and FN had copies of the TDP. I believe the upper thing. I returned an out of spec stripped Upper receiver myself a few weeks ago. That is just poor QC and a bad batch got out. My replacement, direct from Stag, was great. How does this make Stag parts factory seconds? We've all heard the stories about problems with Colt, Bushmaster, LMT, et al. Does this mean they are all factory seconds, too?
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Posted: 4/26/2007 12:59:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2007 1:00:09 PM EST by Centurian77]
You can build a 1/7 chrome lined 14.5" M4 with pinned flash hider for $710.


You buy a J&T 14.5" government profile barrel, 1/7 twist chrome lined complete kit for $575 with the Phantom Flash Hider. Then buy a Double Star lower for $99. Send the upper to CMMG to have them install M4 feed ramp cuts for $10 and pin a flash hider for $25.

Probably the best bang for the buck. Throw the $200 you saved from not going with an RRA or the like torward optics or something.


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Posted: 4/26/2007 1:14:08 PM EST
Subs of Colt and FN have copies of the parts of the TDP that relate to whaver they are contracted to produce.
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Posted: 4/26/2007 1:20:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2007 1:23:08 PM EST by ar15gnocchi]

Originally Posted By JPratt06:

Originally Posted By FMJ:
#1 Buy a FORGED lower most any will do ( complete 3 to 400 bucks)
#2 Order a complete LMT M4 upper (around 600 bucks)
#3 Slap them together





Agree with most of the above, but...go with an Ameetec complete lower. They are forged and cost $200. My Ameetec is my favorite lower (I have a Bushy and RRA as well).


My vote is Bushmaster or RRA.

Sorry to hijack, but I watched the YouTube link you have in your sig about the barrel-shroud and McCarthy, and laughed my ass off. That interviewer gets a prize if I see him in person. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryCe4yoRVaA

You would think she would know what she is trying to ban, since she is the one that introduced the act. Typical ignorant politician.
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