Site Notices
11/24/2014 4:59:23 PM
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2
Author
Message
zouske
Offline
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0% (0)
Posted: 4/17/2007 3:06:47 AM EST
With what torque should one install a birdcage flash hider onto an A1 11.5" upper?

Thanks in advance.
TheMocoMan
Delta Fanboy
Offline
Posts: 2053
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 3:09:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By zouske:
With what torque should one install a birdcage flash hider onto an A1 11.5" upper?

Thanks in advance.


+1
For me I'd like to know how much CRUSH should be on that washer. Also why is it referred to as "timing" and/or "indexing"?
Originally Posted By VB3:
Check the papers tomorrow for people hurling themselves off buildings. The only thing the note left behind will say is "Bushmaster isnt Mil-spec. Never!"
Muskyjerk
AKA "TREE STAND"
Offline
Posts: 716
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 8:13:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2007 8:17:40 AM EST by Muskyjerk]
For an A2 bird cage or similar put your crush washer on then hand tighten until tight. then wrench and "crush the washer" until you are "timed" like the face of a clock until the flash hider closed ports are at the 6 o'clock position. A crush washer is set up for (I believe) two revolutions of crushing (maybe more). This is also why you can only use them once.

For an A1 type just wrench it until you have around 30 ft lbs. But I am guessing on that so wait for clarification.
"The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse always gets the cheese"
BattleRife
Offline
Posts: 320
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 8:20:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
For me I'd like to know how much CRUSH should be on that washer. Also why is it referred to as "timing" and/or "indexing"?


Some flash hiders are designed to work in a specific orientation. For example, with an A2 flash hider the solid area should be on the bottom. Hence the FH must be indexed so that this is the case.

There is no specific torque when using the crush washer. The whole idea is to have a washer that provides an acceptable level of friction over a wide range of rotation, so that the hider can be placed in the acceptable orientation.
battlecry
Offline
Posts: 56
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 8:28:46 AM EST
I've been thinking that I want to install a FH or comp without torque on the barrel. Believe I can time the FH by sanding the end on wet/dry sandpaper on glass base until threads line up. Then secure with red locktite. Firearm intended to punish paper only. Would this be really stupid, or just moderately so?
I-M-A-WMD
Offline
Posts: 2154
Feedback: 100% (52)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 9:41:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2007 9:42:17 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By battlecry:
I've been thinking that I want to install a FH or comp without torque on the barrel. Believe I can time the FH by sanding the end on wet/dry sandpaper on glass base until threads line up. Then secure with red locktite. Firearm intended to punish paper only. Would this be really stupid, or just moderately so?


You'd probably be better of using a peel washer. Instead of sanding your FH, you just peel layers of the washer off until you can index your FH w/ as little torque as you like. The layers of the peel washer are thousandths of an inch. I'm not overly certain just how thin/thick they are but, I prefer the peel washers so I can index them myself w/o going overboard on torque or having a FH I'm not certain is tight enough.

HTH-

Sly
battlecry
Offline
Posts: 57
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 10:43:48 AM EST
Thanks, Sly, I like the idea of the peelwasher. Do you use any locktite with your FH?
I-M-A-WMD
Offline
Posts: 2155
Feedback: 100% (52)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 11:15:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/17/2007 11:18:35 AM EST by I-M-A-WMD]

Originally Posted By battlecry:
Thanks, Sly, I like the idea of the peelwasher. Do you use any locktite with your FH?


No, I use a peel washer to properly index the FH while ensuring I apply enough torque to satisfy myself that the FH is on tight w/o applying too much torque. If you want to set yours up w/o much (if any) torque applied to the barrel- you may wish to apply locktite to ensure it doesn't loosen... As I rarely use loctite, I'll pass on the opportunity to throw in my two bits as to the suitability of loctite on a FH. Perhaps there's someone w/ more experience concerning loctite out there because I must admit my knowledge concerning the use of loctite is minimal at best.

Sly
markm
Member
Offline
Posts: 23192
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 11:22:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By I-M-A-WMD:

No, I use a peel washer to properly index the FH while ensuring I apply enough torque to satisfy myself that the FH is on tight w/o applying too much torque.


+1

I call this method the PDGT method. (Pretty Dog Gone Tight)

high-carbon w00tz cakes!
raygixxer89
Online
Posts: 554
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 11:50:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Muskyjerk:
For an A2 bird cage or similar put your crush washer on then hand tighten until tight. then wrench and "crush the washer" until you are "timed" like the face of a clock until the flash hider closed ports are at the 6 o'clock position. A crush washer is set up for (I believe) two revolutions of crushing (maybe more). This is also why you can only use them once.

For an A1 type just wrench it until you have around 30 ft lbs. But I am guessing on that so wait for clarification.
Your supposed to turn the FH 2 MORE times after it's tight?! No way! I'm afraid to shoot mine now because I only turned it about 3/4 of a turn after tight to properly time it!
Powerkicker
Member
Online
Posts: 225
Feedback: 100% (101)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 12:49:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By raygixxer89:

Originally Posted By Muskyjerk:
For an A2 bird cage or similar put your crush washer on then hand tighten until tight. then wrench and "crush the washer" until you are "timed" like the face of a clock until the flash hider closed ports are at the 6 o'clock position. A crush washer is set up for (I believe) two revolutions of crushing (maybe more). This is also why you can only use them once.

For an A1 type just wrench it until you have around 30 ft lbs. But I am guessing on that so wait for clarification.
Your supposed to turn the FH 2 MORE times after it's tight?! No way! I'm afraid to shoot mine now because I only turned it about 3/4 of a turn after tight to properly time it!


You did it right.
gregw45
Offline
Posts: 1334
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2007 2:22:58 PM EST
Muskyjerk
AKA "TREE STAND"
Offline
Posts: 717
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/18/2007 3:15:21 AM EST
You did it right, I was just saying there is probably 2 revolutions of crush manufactured into the washer.
"The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse always gets the cheese"
crazymoose
Offline
Posts: 22
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/18/2007 8:42:06 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By battlecry:
Thanks, Sly, I like the idea of the peelwasher. Do you use any locktite with your FH?



Locktite at the muzzle will quickly exceed its working temp. and melt off.
Onslaught
No Pony Pee for me!
Offline
Posts: 2760
Feedback: 100% (115)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/18/2007 9:32:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By crazymoose:

Originally Posted By battlecry:
Thanks, Sly, I like the idea of the peelwasher. Do you use any locktite with your FH?



Locktite at the muzzle will quickly exceed its working temp. and melt off.


I used peel washers to get "hand tight" only on a Denny's RECON barrel and then added red loctite to hold it in place. When I removed the FS a few hundred rounds later, the red loctite was still there, but it had been reduced to more of a friction additive like the red dot on an A2 buttstock screw. It was worth doing IMHO to maintain the awesome accuracy of the Denny's Recon bbl.
... But what the hell do I know???
chewbacca
They ARE watching YOU
Offline
Posts: 4480
Feedback: 100% (83)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/18/2007 12:48:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By battlecry:
I've been thinking that I want to install a FH or comp without torque on the barrel. Believe I can time the FH by sanding the end on wet/dry sandpaper on glass base until threads line up. Then secure with red locktite. Firearm intended to punish paper only. Would this be really stupid, or just moderately so?


Just get a Vortex. Hand tighten and that is all....it will tighten itself to where it needds to go.
"A great revolution is never the fault of the people, but of the government."

--Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
zouske
Offline
Posts: 12
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/21/2007 4:27:19 PM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By gregw45:
15-20 ft/lbs.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=315921


Thanks, everyone, that was extremely helpful.

And raises good points concerning other issues I need to explore and learn.
scottryan
"The Arm of Law and Order"
Offline
Posts: 6531
Feedback: 100% (205)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/21/2007 4:44:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By battlecry:
I've been thinking that I want to install a FH or comp without torque on the barrel. Believe I can time the FH by sanding the end on wet/dry sandpaper on glass base until threads line up. Then secure with red locktite. Firearm intended to punish paper only. Would this be really stupid, or just moderately so?


That would really be stupid. It would be easier to use the correct parts.
For all your Retro AR-15 and AR-10 History, Information, and Parts visit: www.RetroBlackRifle.com
GreenM4Guy
Team Member to the Max
Offline
Posts: 204
Feedback: 100% (2)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/21/2007 5:09:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By battlecry:
I've been thinking that I want to install a FH or comp without torque on the barrel. Believe I can time the FH by sanding the end on wet/dry sandpaper on glass base until threads line up. Then secure with red locktite. Firearm intended to punish paper only. Would this be really stupid, or just moderately so?


That would really be stupid. It would be easier to use the correct parts.


Maybe i dont underatand you. He is using using the correct parts. He just doesnt want to torque his barrel, sound good to me, but what do i know ive only instaled like 7500 flashhiders.
I threaded your barrel.

Shark Huntin? Just fill your handguards full of chum.
AR15barrels
Member
Offline
Posts: 5673
Feedback: 100% (43)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/24/2007 9:45:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Muskyjerk:
I was just saying there is probably 2 revolutions of crush manufactured into the washer.


I think it's 1/2 a turn minimum and 1.5 turns maximum in order to index with a crush washer.

There is most certainly NOT a full 2 revolutions of crush (0.070") engineered into the crush washer.
Randall Rausch
www.ar15barrels.com
Specializing in barrel threading, shortening, lightening and any other machine work.
If you want what does not exist, I can probably make it.
TheMocoMan
Delta Fanboy
Offline
Posts: 2108
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/24/2007 11:03:20 AM EST
So what tricks do you use to check the alignment? I thought AtlantaFireman had a neat idea in his Blackthorne thread!

Anybody else use the Popsicle stick test?
Originally Posted By VB3:
Check the papers tomorrow for people hurling themselves off buildings. The only thing the note left behind will say is "Bushmaster isnt Mil-spec. Never!"
AR15barrels
Member
Offline
Posts: 5681
Feedback: 100% (43)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/24/2007 11:05:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
So what tricks do you use to check the alignment?


My Mk1Mod0 eyeball is accurate to less than 3 degrees.
The published spec allows for up to 1/2 the width of the slot to be mis-aligned.
Randall Rausch
www.ar15barrels.com
Specializing in barrel threading, shortening, lightening and any other machine work.
If you want what does not exist, I can probably make it.
TheMocoMan
Delta Fanboy
Offline
Posts: 2326
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/30/2007 4:27:02 AM EST
Ok so uhhh I did this at home last night. I don't have a vise. That should have been my 1st reason to stop.

So here's the deal, do you folks use a LOOOOOOONG as wrench when screwing on these damn things? I mean HOLY HELL with just my foot and some huevos it's a BITCH to screw that thing on there. 1.5 turns my ass! Maybe a .6 turn!
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Women are like parking spots. All the good ones are taken.. the ones that are left are handicap or way out there.
Sabre223
Offline
Posts: 423
Feedback: 100% (43)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/30/2007 7:02:37 AM EST
If your gonna sand the FH, why not sand the crush washer instead? I did and then used about 10-15 lbs of torque to make it line up correct.
TheMocoMan
Delta Fanboy
Offline
Posts: 2329
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/30/2007 9:27:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sabre223:
If your gonna sand the FH, why not sand the crush washer instead? I did and then used about 10-15 lbs of torque to make it line up correct.


Yeah.... it's bothering the ever lovin' shit out of me. I'm using that Popsicle trick to check my "timing" and the TIME IS OFF BABY. By just a few degrees, but enough to drive my perfectionist mind bananas.

Problem is, 1 I NEED A DAMN VISE. Not this foot on the floor poor man technique. Secondly I need the correct size wrench and not an adjustable one.

(confession time: I'm certain I also put the crush washer on backwards because there was just no way it was going to crush the other way I had it)
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Women are like parking spots. All the good ones are taken.. the ones that are left are handicap or way out there.
markm
Member
Offline
Posts: 23977
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/30/2007 9:39:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Yeah.... it's bothering the ever lovin' shit out of me. I'm using that Popsicle trick to check my "timing" and the TIME IS OFF BABY. By just a few degrees, but enough to drive my perfectionist mind bananas.


Take the popsicle stick out and forget it. The M16A2 technical manual allows for several degrees of +/- in timing the A2 Flash hider. I think a little bit off of TDC is hardcore and proof that you're not KNS pin using geek!
high-carbon w00tz cakes!
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED