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lt557
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Posted: 4/24/2006 7:47:16 PM
I have a lot of spare parts and I believe I may have enough to build a GUU clone. Here is the rundown.

Slick side upper
CAR type stock
Lower with mag release fence
M4 barrel with birdcage
A1 grip

It seems like an old CAR 15 with an M4 front end. Is that an accurate description?

I have used the search function, and I still would like additional info.

Such as, What does the GUU mean?

Pics or any history on this odd variant would be appriciated.
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bmick325
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Posted: 4/24/2006 8:27:53 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2006 8:29:01 PM by bmick325]


USAF EOD

GUU-5 series W/ CATM upgraded M-4 bbl and upper.

USAFhack
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Posted: 4/24/2006 8:29:36 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2006 8:31:31 PM by USAFhack]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Commando

Scroll down to a table marked "Related Models" you'll see most of the basics
Tomislav
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Posted: 4/24/2006 8:39:30 PM
What does the 'GAU' in GAU-5P stand for?
Cooper101
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Posted: 4/24/2006 8:48:48 PM
[Last Edit: 4/24/2006 8:53:13 PM by Cooper101]
I was a cop in the Air Force and carried one daily for a couple years. I was always told it stood for 'Government-Altered Unit.' Never saw it in writing as I recall, but that's what I consistently heard. They weren't consistently altered, though. I saw every barrel length, flash-hider type, receiver markings, etc.. I was only ever issued one that wasn't just a mish-mash of parts.

Google found this: answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=706265
fla556guy
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Posted: 4/24/2006 9:12:32 PM
Got my hands on one for an exercize with blanks. Was fun because it fired auto, instead of 3 round burst. But that thing was a bitch when it got dirty.............it didn't have a foward assist. Blanks fowl things up quick......
tat2steve
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Posted: 4/24/2006 10:23:57 PM
I thought I read somewhere that GAU stood for " Gun Automatic Universal".
johnreilly
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Posted: 4/24/2006 10:24:00 PM
GAU is an acronym for "Gun-Aircraft Unit"

I used to spend time inside an M61A1, but that was years ago!
lt557
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Posted: 4/25/2006 11:08:25 AM

Originally Posted By johnreilly:
GAU is an acronym for "Gun-Aircraft Unit"

I used to spend time inside an M61A1, but that was years ago!



Great info, but what about GUU
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Forest
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Posted: 4/25/2006 11:24:42 AM
[Last Edit: 4/25/2006 11:26:41 AM by Forest]
This thread has gone on this long and NOBODY's referenced the

Colt Military Carbine Technical & Historical Guide ??

I'm building a GAU-5P using the information in it from Capt Richardson, Ekie, and Scottryan.
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tat2steve
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Posted: 4/25/2006 7:47:25 PM
johnreilly, thanks for clearing that up.
kinaed
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Posted: 4/25/2006 7:55:54 PM

Originally Posted By johnreilly:
GAU is an acronym for "Gun-Aircraft Unit"

I used to spend time inside an M61A1, but that was years ago!



I always heard it as Ground Assaut Unit.

-k
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captrichardson
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Posted: 4/25/2006 10:15:34 PM
Based on my research here is what I have got:

USAF GAU & GUU Designations,
I have seen and heard a number of explanations for the GAU designation. I believe JohnReilly got the original designation correct, “Gun Aircraft Unit”. If you search the USAF inventory you will find other GAU designations, and they all refer to aircraft based weapons. So how did it go from referring to aircraft weapons to AR Carbines, I have no idea! I have heard that when it was used to refer to an AR Carbine, that it was commonly referred to as “Gun Automatic Unit”. However, I have also heard it referred to as Gun Assault Unit and Gun Air Force Unit. This thread is the first time that I have heard, Govt. Altered Unit, Gun Automatic Universal, and Ground Assault Unit.

So if that covers the GAU designation, what about the GUU designation? I have no real clue! I have heard Gun Universal Unit, but I can not confirm that with any USAF documentation.

On the specs for a GUU-5P,
There is really not a specific spec, in reality you will find a lot of variations that fall under the GUU-5P designation. Typically a GUU-5P will have:
Lower – Older A1
Buttstock – can be anything from the original aluminum, to one of the newer plastics
Receiver – could be an original slabside, or a later model with the fence
Piston Grip – could be the original A1, or an updated A2

Upper – Anything Goes, I have seen just about every possible configuration
A1 – with or without Forward Assist, Flat or Tapered Slip Ring, Older or Newer Carbine Handguards, A2 or M4 Barrel
A2 – with Forward Assist, with Tapered Slip Ring, Newer Carbine Handguards, A2 or M4 Barrel
M4 – Flattop (no carry handle), with Forward Assist, with Tapered Slip Ring, M4 Handguards, M4 Barrel

If you check the Guide as Forest pointed out you should be able to find some more info.

Below are also some pics:






Good luck with the build, make sure you post some pics when you are done.
"Capt Richardson"
"It takes a remarkable person not just to say a Creed and memorize a Creed, but to live by a Creed." S. Shughart

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Thatguy96
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Posted: 4/25/2006 10:28:31 PM
To what USAF prefixes actually mean, most sources say that GAU is Gun, Aircraft Unit, which follows most USAF prefix conventions. GUU would, in my opinion, likely stand for Gun, Universal Unit, as the only two GUUs I know of are small arms, and the GAU-5 is the only non-aircraft gun with a GAU prefix.
lt557
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Posted: 4/26/2006 5:15:34 PM

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
To what USAF prefixes actually mean, most sources say that GAU is Gun, Aircraft Unit, which follows most USAF prefix conventions. GUU would, in my opinion, likely stand for Gun, Universal Unit, as the only two GUUs I know of are small arms, and the GAU-5 is the only non-aircraft gun with a GAU prefix.



Seems like it would be more like Government Unofficial Unit.

Anyone know any USAF Armorers we can get conformation from?
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Thatguy96
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Posted: 4/26/2006 6:46:36 PM
Why would it be unofficial?
pcurtis
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Posted: 4/26/2006 7:02:02 PM

Originally Posted By johnreilly:
GAU is an acronym for "Gun-Aircraft Unit"

I used to spend time inside an M61A1, but that was years ago!



GAU is a standard AF designation for weapons in general, both individual and aircraft. When I was active duty, we ordered replacements for individual weapons and had 2 each 7.62N guns for an A model AC130's delivered. They had very close FSN/NSN number at the time.
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Thatguy96
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Posted: 4/26/2006 7:06:06 PM
I'm confused by your statement. I'll say right now that I am easily wrong, but I fail to understand how you reach your conclusion. FSN/NSNs of what individual weapons were close to what at the time? I still only know of one GAU that is a personal weapon, and all GUUs I know of are personal weapons, which is in my mind, why the GUU prefix was created.
pcurtis
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Posted: 4/26/2006 7:41:08 PM

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
I'm confused by your statement. I'll say right now that I am easily wrong, but I fail to understand how you reach your conclusion. FSN/NSNs of what individual weapons were close to what at the time? I still only know of one GAU that is a personal weapon, and all GUUs I know of are personal weapons, which is in my mind, why the GUU prefix was created.



Thatguy96,

As I stated when I was assigned at Hurlburt ('73-'79 for context), GAU was the common prefix whether it was for an individual weapon or 7.62N/20MM AC-130 gun (depending on A and H models) at the time. Tht only exception, IIRC was the 105 for the H models. We ordered replacement weapons (individual) and received A model mini-guns. They all had a GAU designation at that time (similar FSN/NSN). We had one hell of time returning them back to supply and getting what we ordered.
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lt557
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Posted: 4/26/2006 8:03:37 PM

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
Why would it be unofficial?



Because the configurations are all different.

And it is still Unknown what GUU stands for
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Thatguy96
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Posted: 4/26/2006 8:53:13 PM

Originally Posted By pcurtis:

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:
I'm confused by your statement. I'll say right now that I am easily wrong, but I fail to understand how you reach your conclusion. FSN/NSNs of what individual weapons were close to what at the time? I still only know of one GAU that is a personal weapon, and all GUUs I know of are personal weapons, which is in my mind, why the GUU prefix was created.



Thatguy96,

As I stated when I was assigned at Hurlburt ('73-'79 for context), GAU was the common prefix whether it was for an individual weapon or 7.62N/20MM AC-130 gun (depending on A and H models) at the time. Tht only exception, IIRC was the 105 for the H models. We ordered replacement weapons (individual) and received A model mini-guns. They all had a GAU designation at that time (similar FSN/NSN). We had one hell of time returning them back to supply and getting what we ordered.


Okay, that clears it up. Still, there is only one individual weapon to my knowledge with a GAU prefix.

And the U is still unknown, but I would still say that unofficial is not likely because there is only one configuration of the GUU-4/P.
TaylorWSO
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Posted: 4/26/2006 10:10:14 PM
GAU = Gun Automatic universal. dot

The A is not "aircraft". Its listed that way in all the dictonaries/ indexes we have. GUU is not listed in anything I've seen. I will do more research.

Nearly all guns in the AF have the GAU designation, even if they are on fighters or not.
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captrichardson
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Posted: 4/27/2006 1:13:23 AM
Here in lies the problem with the GUU Designation,
I have spoken to both past and present USAF CATM and Unit Armorers, and none of them can give me a consistent answer on the GUU Designation. None of them can also provide me with any USAF documentation that explains what GUU stands for. To be honest, most of them also really don't care what GUU stands for.


In regards to the GUU Rebuilds,
I also forgot to mention that in addition to using GAU-5A, GAU-5AA, and GAU-5P Lowers to make GUU-5P's, the USAF also likes using M16 Lowers to makeup GUU Carbines. The picture below shows 3 GUU's that were all built using M16 Lowers.



If anyone can get, or has, any "Official USAF" documentation on the USAF Carbines please share it.

Thanks,
"Capt Richardson"
"It takes a remarkable person not just to say a Creed and memorize a Creed, but to live by a Creed." S. Shughart

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packinheavy
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Posted: 4/27/2006 1:46:59 AM
captrichardson pretty much sums up what I have seen with the GUU-5Ps. The ones we have are M16s with A1 uppers rebarreled with M4 barrels and old style metal CAR stocks added. I have seen slab side uppers and lowers and some with A2 uppers as well. Some look like I put the thing together in the garage while others look really well done. I will ask one of our CATM guys about the designation tomorrow. He may not know since he is just filling in for NCOIC while he is deployed. I am sure if I keep asking someone will know.
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Posted: 4/27/2006 2:16:59 AM
[Last Edit: 4/27/2006 9:11:00 AM by QUIB]
Well, at 0015 in the morning I can't really make alot of sense out of this but I believe the answer lies here.

Designations Of U.S. Aeronautical and Support Equipment



ETA: Reading through this again this morning I believe that GAU stands for GAU- Guns Airborne, Unit. And GUU simply stands for Guns, Unit. Does anyone else read it this way?
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Posted: 4/28/2006 5:00:12 PM
[Last Edit: 4/29/2006 4:21:11 PM by machinehead]
I just spoke to an engineer for the USAF small arms program today from Warner Robins AFB about the GAU/GUU. Here is his input on it.

The GAU stands for Gun Automatic Unit.
The GUU was a total F-up. When the AF wanted to redo its short carbine setup in the early 80's the Army didn’t want to have anything to do with it. They had no need for a short barreled gun. The AF has to go through the Army for all its small arms. So they told the AF to get a hold of Colt for a prototype. When it was all said and done they got the approval for the 14.5" pencil barrel 1-7 twist. When the Technical Manual was written the writers used GUU instead of GAU. They had several hundred manuals printed already. So to save money they used the term GUU-5P instead of reprinting the manuals to GAU-5P. When I asked if they made a name to fit the GUU designation he said no. Its just meaningless letters, he was just happy they didn’t print GAY since Y is right next to U on the keyboard. (He started laughing hysterically at his joke) The AF took a stockpile of M-16's and sent them to Anniston Arsenal for rebuild/re-barreling. They would use whatever parts were on the original M16 and replace whatever was not serviceable. He is supposed to get me some printed history and some Tech Manuals he has. Again this is from an Engineer in the USAF small arms program of 25+ years.
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