ARCHIVED ARCHIVED
  Previous Page
Page:  / 3
Author
Message
DEGREEONE
Offline
Posts: 6
Feedback: 0% (0)
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:26:09 AM
Does anyone have any comments about the comparison in stopping power (lethality) between the 5.56 and the .308? I have my AR for home defense but continue to hear negative comments about its' ability to lay a guy down with one shot. I have not had real world experience with "putting a man down", but it is my opinion from range practice, that I would not want to be on the receiving end of one of my rounds.

Thoughts?

thanks guys,
Degreeone
TheMocoMan
Get some bush.
Offline
Posts: 742
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:33:33 AM
.223 = Very Lethal
.308 = More Lethal

Shot Placement my good man.
"Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round."
-The Box O' Truth #1
FALARAK
Nurturing Socialist. Now, new and improved!
Offline
Posts: 8384
Feedback: 100% (133)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:40:16 AM
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE
Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?
DEGREEONE
Offline
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:40:31 AM
MOCOMAN

THANKS...........ANY SUGGESTIONS ON YOUR SHELL PREFERENCE?DEGREEONE
gks452
[Enter witty comment here]
Offline
Posts: 948
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:42:40 AM
With FMJ the 5.56 is close to the 7.62
With soft points the 5.56 is not close to the 7.62
"You will know you are in a nuclear attack by the bright flash, loud explosion, widespread destruction, intense heat, strong winds and the rising of a mushroom cloud." - Rand Corporation Pocket Edition Survival Guide
highwayman
Member
Offline
Posts: 1913
Feedback: 100% (40)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:43:09 AM

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
...

Shot Placement my good man.



Agreed. That is the most important aspect of wounding. A .223 will kill something just as dead as a .308 if they both hit vitals. .308 is far superior at wounding if you need to go through a barrier. For general home defense I'd go with an AR loaded with 75-77 gr. rounds, if your rifle/carbine has a fast enough twist to shoot them well. MJD
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Wolf Ammo- Some swear by it, I swear at it.
DEGREEONE
Offline
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:43:22 AM
BECAUSE?
DEGREEONE
Offline
Posts: 9
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:45:10 AM
1:9 TWIST GOOD ENOUGH?
ALPHAGHOST
ARF.com Idiot
Offline
Posts: 10103
Feedback: 100% (795)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:48:00 AM
www.ammo-oracle.com--this might help

the energy dump/wound cavity of a .308 is almost twice that of a 5.56

both will FUBAR you....but if you want the extra range/energy--go w/ the .308

the 5.56, imo, is kinda finky--it needs sufficient velocity to fragment (its main method of killing) in soft tissue; penetration through barriers is also less
"I'm not stupid; y'all just retarded."
--CJ
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!"
EAT THIS!
Oh, Yeah!
FALARAK
Nurturing Socialist. Now, new and improved!
Offline
Posts: 8386
Feedback: 100% (133)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:48:28 AM

Originally Posted By DEGREEONE:
1:9 TWIST GOOD ENOUGH?



IF YOU ARE SERIOUS, PLEASE READ THIS THEN COME BACK AND ASK FOLLOWUP QUESTIONS.

www.ammo-oracle.com/
Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?
gks452
[Enter witty comment here]
Offline
Posts: 949
Feedback: 100% (9)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:50:50 AM

Originally Posted By DEGREEONE:
negative comments about its' ability to lay a guy down with one shot


Shoot the guy more than once. It's not a test of your shooting ability or manliness. Shoot until the guy is no longer a threat.
"You will know you are in a nuclear attack by the bright flash, loud explosion, widespread destruction, intense heat, strong winds and the rising of a mushroom cloud." - Rand Corporation Pocket Edition Survival Guide
markm
Member
Offline
Posts: 14673
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:52:32 AM

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE



Thank you, and AMEN!!!!

also.... NOT THIS IDIOTIC SHIT AGAIN!
AR15.com where both should be banned!
TheMocoMan
Get some bush.
Offline
Posts: 744
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:53:35 AM

Originally Posted By DEGREEONE:
MOCOMAN

THANKS...........ANY SUGGESTIONS ON YOUR SHELL PREFERENCE?

DEGREEONE



For the range I really like Black Hills 55gr. Full Metal Jacket Blue Blox. A little on the pricey side but very accurate, shinny brass, and I *think* (but don't quote me) the brass is a true 5.56 case and not a .223 I seem to recall they reload with leftover M193 brass and shine it up real nice. The result is excellent ammo with plenty of piss to drive any bolt/buffer combination IMHO.

I don't/woudln't use my AR for home defense so I can't say either way. The general consensus here favors heavy 75gr. loads. Hornady and their FPD-TAP 75gr. ammo seems like a real winner.
"Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round."
-The Box O' Truth #1
highwayman
Member
Offline
Posts: 1915
Feedback: 100% (40)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:54:34 AM
I'd use those rounds because they have more mass and better penetration than most other .223 rounds. They'll also fragment at longer ranges than normal M193. I'll see if I can scare up some of the ballistics tests for reference. I see no need for .308 to be used in a house. Overpenetration would be a big concern for me, especially if there are other dwellings in close proximity. 1/9 MAY be good enough to stabilize a 77. People have mixed results. You'll have to try a box or two and see for yourself. 1/8 or 1/7 would probably be better, but like I said, you'll have to try it. MJD
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Wolf Ammo- Some swear by it, I swear at it.
TheMocoMan
Get some bush.
Offline
Posts: 745
Feedback: 100% (7)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:55:56 AM
Yo markm & FALARAK

Are you guys just joking or dead serious?
(I missed any legit debate over rifle rounds used for home defense)
"Twelve pine boards will not stop a .223 round."
-The Box O' Truth #1
markm
Member
Offline
Posts: 14674
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 10:59:02 AM

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Yo markm & FALARAK

Are you guys just joking or dead serious?
(I missed any legit debate over rifle rounds used for home defense)



It's a serious matter when you have a bunch of civilians running around with 308 or 556 like it's no big deal.
AR15.com where both should be banned!
FALARAK
Nurturing Socialist. Now, new and improved!
Offline
Posts: 8389
Feedback: 100% (133)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:00:39 AM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 11:01:16 AM by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Yo markm & FALARAK

Are you guys just joking or dead serious?
(I missed any legit debate over rifle rounds used for home defense)



When you ask silly questions... you get cilly answers.... by those of us who are jaded.

Read the ammo oracle, get informed... and make your own educated decisions. The oracle isn't "god" but it has a shitload more info than most of the people around here spout off.

This shit gets debated ad nauseum for years.....
Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?
highwayman
Member
Offline
Posts: 1916
Feedback: 100% (40)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:00:41 AM

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Yo markm & FALARAK

Are you guys just joking or dead serious?
(I missed any legit debate over rifle rounds used for home defense)



I can't answer the first part, but there have been many arguments over which is better, .308 or .223. It seems to come up every few months or so. Most of the time the threads degrade to childish namecalling. MJD
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Wolf Ammo- Some swear by it, I swear at it.
FALARAK
Nurturing Socialist. Now, new and improved!
Offline
Posts: 8390
Feedback: 100% (133)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:01:51 AM

Originally Posted By highwayman:

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
Yo markm & FALARAK

Are you guys just joking or dead serious?
(I missed any legit debate over rifle rounds used for home defense)



I can't answer the first part, but there have been many arguments over which is better, .308 or .223. It seems to come up every few months days or so. Most of the time the threads degrade to childish namecalling. MJD



Fixed it for ya.
Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?
FALARAK
Nurturing Socialist. Now, new and improved!
Offline
Posts: 8391
Feedback: 100% (133)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:07:30 AM

Originally Posted By TheMocoMan:
For the range I really like Black Hills 55gr. Full Metal Jacket Blue Blox. A little on the pricey side but very accurate, shinny brass, and I *think* (but don't quote me) the brass is a true 5.56 case and not a .223 I seem to recall they reload with leftover M193 brass and shine it up real nice. The result is excellent ammo with plenty of piss to drive any bolt/buffer combination IMHO.



There is no difference between 5.56 and .223 cases. The specs are the same. Some brass is better than others, however. BH blue box doesnt use "leftover M193 brass" they use Lake City once fire brass, which most likely came from M193 or M855 training ammo. Excellent brass, yes. Good quality ammunition... not the best for home defense (I wont get into that) but I would not want to be shot with it.
Ever notice how people on the Left talk about leaving the Country and people on the Right talk about taking the Country back?
excist_and_reflect
Offline
Posts: 114
Feedback: 100% (15)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:19:26 AM
I use Q331A as my Home defense ammo. Seems ammo oracle gave it good marks or whatever. I use the lighter 55 grain bullets since I use a 16 inch carbine and would be shooting closer up. If I was distance shooting I would use the heavier bullets, to make up for the lower velocity and still get penatration. That's how it works, am I right?
dave3006
Offline
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:21:38 AM
I look at it this way, if I don't like a topic, I don't click on it. Using the search feature is great. However, sometimes people bring new perspectives on things as time passes.

My opinion is that everything is a trade off with rifles. Battlerifles penetrate better and will give you a higher probability of a stop given similar hits. Smaller calibers are easier to shoot accurately and engage multiple targets. You can also carry more ammo.

BUT, I seriously doubt if your choice of rifle will determine if you live in a SHTF situation. Even a Marlin 30-30 used by a skilled person will get the job done. Rather, I would ask myself how well I am trained, how well conditioned I am, and how many friends with guns will be with me when things go to poop.
dradw
Offline
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:34:43 AM
IMHO, The .223 was designed primarily to use light weight ammo and wound an enemy to tie up four or five enemy support troops in caring for the wounded enemy combatant. It is basically a shorter range weapon for close order anti personal warfare ie Viet Nam. The Garand was an all purpose short or long range weapon but was heavy and so was the ammo. There is no perfect compromise. A Shottie is great for home protection. The AR, when multiple hits are employed will do the job. In a high stress, close quarter situation, shot placement although desireable is not always easy. I keep a 30 rounder with soft points in my Colt AR.
gmtmaster
Offline
Posts: 4254
Feedback: 100% (5)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 11:59:57 AM
A hit by either would leave a mark.
Unicorn
Member
Offline
Posts: 592
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 12:02:37 PM
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 12:05:01 PM by Unicorn]

Originally Posted By dave3006:
I look at it this way, if I don't like a topic, I don't click on it. Using the search feature is great. However, sometimes people bring new perspectives on things as time passes.




Very true. So why not just bring back an older thread with your new questions and/or new perspective instead of starting an entirely new thread?

I'm just happy nobody has posted any crap about the 5.56 just being a wounding round so that it ties up more than just the enemy being shot. As if the people we were planning on, or were fighting really give that much medical care to their soldiers.

ETA: Nevermind about the second part. I somehow missed it. I should have known it would be there already. 2 hours and it's guaranteed.
SWO_daddy
Offline
Posts: 4302
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 2/3/2006 12:05:28 PM

Originally Posted By dradw:
IMHO, The .223 was designed primarily to use light weight ammo and wound an enemy to tie up four or five enemy support troops in caring for the wounded enemy combatant.



AGNTSA
  Previous Page
Page:  / 3
ARCHIVED ARCHIVED