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Basic
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Posted: 1/28/2005 4:43:48 AM EST
So, what are the differences? I'm assuming the M-16 is the full auto version? Also, what is the difference between the A1, A2, A3, M4 ect.?? I'm about to buy a kit and want to know the differences. Any and all help is appreciated.

Kris
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 5:12:37 AM EST
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 5:13:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 5:15:17 AM EST by Combat_Diver]
AR-15 are semi auto versions with numberous variants.

Here's Uncle Sams view of the M16 series

M16-fixed stock, 20" bbl w/ a 1:12 twist, fixed carrying handle (CH), semi and full auto, no forward assist (FA)
XM16E1/M16A1-fixed stock, 20" bbl w/ a 1:12 twist, fixed CH, semi and full auto, FA
XM177 series-collapsable stock, 10"-11" w/ 1:12 tw, fixed CH, semi and auto, FA (SMG attemt)
M231-collaspable wire stock, open bolt, auto only, 11" 1:12 twist, fixed CH, FA (designed as a port firing weapon for the Bradley IFV)
M16A2-longer and heavier fixed stock, 20" bbl w/ 1:7 tw, fixed CH w/ improved sights, FA, semi and burst
M16A3- same as M16A2 but with auto instead of burst
M16A4-longer and heavier fixed stock, 20" bbl w/ 1:7 tw, detachable CH w/ improved sights, FA, semi and burst. New versions have rail system handguards
M4 Carbine-collaspable stock, 14.5" bbl w/ 1:7 tw, detachable CH w/ improved sights, FA, semi and burst. (early versions had fixed CH)
M4A1 Carbine- same as M4 but full auto

CD
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 5:16:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 5:18:04 AM EST by Wetterman]

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:

M16A3- same as M16A2 but with auto instead of burst



M16A3 also with detachable carrying handle

And M4A1 with one too.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 5:19:28 AM EST
12-14K $$$
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 5:23:32 AM EST
AR-15 is a civilian designation like the Beretta 92FS. M-16 is a military designation like the M9.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:11:14 AM EST
When did the shell deflector come in to play?
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:19:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By Auto:
When did the shell deflector come in to play?



when left-handed folks in the service started to get hit by thier own flying brass
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:27:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 9:03:23 AM EST by Thatguy96]

Originally Posted By Wetterman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:

M16A3- same as M16A2 but with auto instead of burst



M16A3 also with detachable carrying handle

And M4A1 with one too.


The M16A3 in the eyes of the US military does not have a detachable carry handle/flat top upper setup. You can consult either the US Army FM (I can't seem to remember the number off the top of my head) or the US Army TM (I know this one: 9-1005-319-23&P).

Also, AR-15 was the designation originally used by Armalite for the pattern, and was later revived by Colt to designate semi-automatic pattern variants. Most of the intiial Colt produce AR-15/M16 variants were in fact rollstamped "Colt Armalite AR-15."

From what I've gathered in my travels, this is how the US Military has done its designation:

AR-15 (USAF) - Colt Model 601, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, fixed A1 style stock, type 1 duckbill FH, triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/A - Either Colt Model 630 or 649; Colt 630, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F; Colt 649, 11.5" barrel A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/B - Either Colt Model 629 or 630; Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/P - Either Colt Model 653 or previous GAUs brought up to this standard; Colt 653, 14.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, birdcage FH, short round handguards, FA (no FA if rebuilt from weapons not orginially featuring this), S-1-F

GUU-5/P - In house rebuilds with 14.5" M4 profile barrels, or rebuilds with the upper reciever simply replaced with a flat top M4A1 style upper.

XM16E1/M16A1 - Colt 603, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A1 style stock, round handguards, type 2 duckbill FH, S-1-F

M16A1E1/M16 PIP - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2 - Colt 719, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E3 - Colt 705, 20" HBAR profile, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E4 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A3 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M16A4 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3, commonly standard with the KAC M5 RAS

XM177 - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM177E1 - Colt Model 609, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM177E2 - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM4/M4 - Colt ?, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4E1/M4A1 - Colt ?, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M4E2 - Colt 925, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, KAC M4 RAS, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

XM106 - 20" HBAR profile (quick-change), permanently fixed triangular handguards, case deflector lump, M60 style leaf rear sight, fixed stock, FA, birdcage FH, S-1-F

XM231/M231 - 15.6" barrel, FPW handguards, case deflector lump, A1 style rear sights, retractable M3A1 style wire stock, no FA, A2 FH, S-F
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:37:29 AM EST
The brass deflecter was an improvement to the M16A2. Don't think any M16A3 has the detachable CH since the selector is the only difference between the A2 and A3. (refer TM 9-1005-319-10 Operators Manual and FM 3.22-9 Rifle Marksmanship) The Army would probably label that version the M16A5! Now some armors might take a M16A4 upper and fit a full auto lower together.

M4A1 has always had the detachable CH.

CD
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 9:26:41 AM EST
So there's no such thing as m16 with detachable carrying handle and full auto.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 9:51:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 9:53:58 AM EST by shop_rat45]
So, what are the main differences between these rifles?:

16" M-4 CAR Kit

16" CAR Kit

M16 16" CAR M4 Kit

M16 16" CAR Kit

Right off, I see a difference in barrels between the M4 and Standard CAR. The M16 kit does not say anything about full auto, but states "All NFA Rules Apply" implying that it has full auto parts. There are so many variants, I just want to make sure I get what I want and get the best deal for my hard earned cash. Thank you again everyone that has contributed!!

Kris
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 10:05:27 AM EST
The M16 kits contain full auto parts
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 12:07:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 12:09:43 PM EST by Thatguy96]

Originally Posted By Wetterman:
So there's no such thing as m16 with detachable carrying handle and full auto.


Not as of yet. Like was said, if one does appear, and the designation pattern continues, it will most likely carry the designation M16A5.

Also if anyone wants to correct what I wrote, or has an information I didn't fill in, please feel free to post it. I've seen mention of an M16A2E2, but I don't know what the config was.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 6:14:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/28/2005 6:15:17 PM EST by Combat_Diver]

Originally Posted By Thatguy96:

Originally Posted By Wetterman:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:

M16A3- same as M16A2 but with auto instead of burst



M16A3 also with detachable carrying handle

And M4A1 with one too.


The M16A3 in the eyes of the US military does not have a detachable carry handle/flat top upper setup. You can consult either the US Army FM (I can't seem to remember the number off the top of my head) or the US Army TM (I know this one: 9-1005-319-23&P).

Also, AR-15 was the designation originally used by Armalite for the pattern, and was later revived by Colt to designate semi-automatic pattern variants. Most of the intiial Colt produce AR-15/M16 variants were in fact rollstamped "Colt Armalite AR-15."

From what I've gathered in my travels, this is how the US Military has done its designation:

AR-15 (USAF) - Colt Model 601, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, fixed A1 style stock, type 1 duckbill FH, triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/A - Either Colt Model 630 or 649; Colt 630, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F; Colt 649, 11.5" barrel A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/B - Either Colt Model 629 or 630; Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/P - Either Colt Model 653 or previous GAUs brought up to this standard; Colt 653, 14.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, birdcage FH, short round handguards, FA (no FA if rebuilt from weapons not orginially featuring this), S-1-F

GUU-5/P - In house rebuilds with 14.5" M4 profile barrels, or rebuilds with the upper reciever simply replaced with a flat top M4A1 style upper.

XM16E1/M16A1 - Colt 603, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A1 style stock, triangluar handguards, type 2 duckbill FH, S-1-F

M16A1E1/M16 PIP - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, triangular handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2 - Colt 719, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E3 - Colt 705, 20" HBAR profile, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E4 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A3 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M16A4 - Colt ?, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3, commonly standard with the KAC M5 RAS

XM177 - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM177E1 - Colt Model 609, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM177E2 - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM4/M4 - Colt ?, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4E1/M4A1 - Colt ?, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M4E2 - Colt 925, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, KAC M4 RAS, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

XM106 - 20" HBAR profile (quick-change), permanently fixed triangular handguards, case deflector lump, M60 style leaf rear sight, fixed stock, FA, birdcage FH, S-1-F

XM231/M231 - 15.6" barrel, FPW handguards, case deflector lump, A1 style rear sights, retractable M3A1 style wire stock, no FA, A2 FH, S-F



Good post but one small correction on handguards

CD

PS back in the late 80s the Royal Jordanian Army had new Colt manufactured M16A2 (stamped) with full auto instead of burst.
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 8:02:08 PM EST
Didn't I read in here about a month ago, that Armalite made a Full-Auto AR-15 when this style of rifle came out?
Or to say it another way, Armalite's first version of this style of rifle was a Full auto and it was labled "AR-15"..
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Link Posted: 1/28/2005 11:24:35 PM EST
Armalite/Colt AR15 Model 01

Hope this info helps.

Sammy


Originally Posted By Bloodhound_K-9:
Didn't I read in here about a month ago, that Armalite made a Full-Auto AR-15 when this style of rifle came out?
Or to say it another way, Armalite's first version of this style of rifle was a Full auto and it was labled "AR-15"..

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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 4:13:10 AM EST
for those who are seeking real no BS info on the AR-15/M16.., buy these books, "Black Rifle", "Black Rifle II" & "The M16 Rifle & It's Cartridge"

all three will cost around $150 to $200.., being the later book is out of print.
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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 9:44:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:

Good post but one small correction on handguards

CD

PS back in the late 80s the Royal Jordanian Army had new Colt manufactured M16A2 (stamped) with full auto instead of burst.


Thx, must've just not been thinking. Also, the Jordanians have full auto "A2"s is not entirely suprising, as Colt only had M16A2 and A3 in its in houre nomeclature (at least from what I've seen) until 2000 when they began producing A4s and it threw them out of whack. Colt simply used A2 and A3 to define flat tops and fixed carry handles with A2 rear sights, but sold guns with S-1-F and S-1-3 groups in both configs.
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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 9:59:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:
So, what are the main differences between these rifles?:

16" M-4 CAR Kit

16" CAR Kit

M16 16" CAR M4 Kit

M16 16" CAR Kit

Right off, I see a difference in barrels between the M4 and Standard CAR. The M16 kit does not say anything about full auto, but states "All NFA Rules Apply" implying that it has full auto parts. There are so many variants, I just want to make sure I get what I want and get the best deal for my hard earned cash. Thank you again everyone that has contributed!!

Kris


Well if you're going for bang for your buck, don't buy the m16 kits. You have to have a registered reciever to work them, and since I'm guessing you don't, they will be worthless.
Good luck on your build, let us see what it looks like when you're done.
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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 6:15:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/29/2005 6:25:30 PM EST by pettifogger]

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Originally Posted By Thatguy96:

AR-15 (USAF) - Colt Model 601, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, fixed A1 style stock, type 2 duckbill FH,
triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

M16 (USAF)- Colt 604, 20" barrel, fixed A1 style stock, type 2 duckbill FH, triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/A - Either Colt Model 630 or 649; Colt 630, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F; Colt 649, 11.5" barrel A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/B - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/P - Either Colt Model 653 or previous GAUs brought up to this standard; Colt 653, 14.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, birdcage FH, short round handguards, FA (no FA if rebuilt from weapons not orginially featuring this), S-1-F

GUU-5/P - In house rebuilds with 14.5" M4 profile barrels, or rebuilds with the upper receiver simply replaced with a flat top M4A1 style upper or a fixed handle M4 upper.

XM16E1/M16A1 - Colt 603, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A1 style stock, triangluar handguards, type 2 duckbill FH, S-1-F

M16A1E1/M16 PIP - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards (round handguards and A2 sights clearly visible on pages 348 and 349 of The Black Rifle, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2 - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E3/M16A3 - Colt 646, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M16A2E4/M16A4 - Colt 945, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3, commonly standard with the KAC M5 RAS

XM177 - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM177E1 - Colt Model 609, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM177E2 - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM4 - Colt 720, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4 - Colt 777 or 920, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights or flat top/detachable carrying handle, second gen retracting stock, M4 feed ramps, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4E1/M4A1 - Colt 921/921HB, 14.5" barrel, M4 feed ramps flat top/detachable carry handle, second gen or third gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M4E2 - Colt 925, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, KAC M4 RAS, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

XM106 - 20" HBAR profile (quick-change), permanently fixed triangular handguards, no case deflector lump, modified A1 rear sight, fixed stock, FA, birdcage FH, S-1-F

XM231/M231 - 15.6" barrel, FPW handguards, no case deflector, A1 style rear sights, retractable M3A1 style wire stock, no FA, A2 FH, S-F



Here's a picture of a M231.



Here's a picture of a M16A2E3 from Black Rifle II.


Here's a picture of an XM106 disassembled from page 309 of The Black Rifle


Here's an image of a M60.


Here's a picture of a GAU-5/A lower with a M4 upper. Notice the lack of a magazine release fence and the A1 grip.

Click for hi-res version
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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 7:01:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/29/2005 7:02:06 PM EST by shop_rat45]
Well, I bought the stuff and built it!! Check out this thread for the specifics and a pic!!

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=318888

Thanks for everyones input and help!

Kris
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Link Posted: 1/29/2005 7:39:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/29/2005 7:40:20 PM EST by BoltActionAssault]

Originally Posted By TimAR15:
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Link Posted: 1/30/2005 6:40:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/30/2005 6:43:14 AM EST by Thatguy96]

Originally Posted By pettifogger:

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Originally Posted By Thatguy96:

AR-15 (USAF) - Colt Model 601, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, fixed A1 style stock, type 2 duckbill FH,
triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

M16 (USAF)- Colt 604, 20" barrel, fixed A1 style stock, type 2 duckbill FH, triangular handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/A - Either Colt Model 630 or 649; Colt 630, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F; Colt 649, 11.5" barrel A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/A/B - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

GAU-5/P - Either Colt Model 653 or previous GAUs brought up to this standard; Colt 653, 14.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, birdcage FH, short round handguards, FA (no FA if rebuilt from weapons not orginially featuring this), S-1-F

GUU-5/P - In house rebuilds with 14.5" M4 profile barrels, or rebuilds with the upper receiver simply replaced with a flat top M4A1 style upper or a fixed handle M4 upper.

XM16E1/M16A1 - Colt 603, 20" barrel, A1 rear sights, FA, fixed A1 style stock, triangluar handguards, type 2 duckbill FH, S-1-F

M16A1E1/M16 PIP - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards (round handguards and A2 sights clearly visible on pages 348 and 349 of The Black Rifle, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2 - Colt 645, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M16A2E3/M16A3 - Colt 646, 20" A2 profile barrel, A2 rear sights, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M16A2E4/M16A4 - Colt 945, 20" A2 profile barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, FA, fixed A2 style stock, round handguards, A2 FH, case deflector lump, S-1-3, commonly standard with the KAC M5 RAS

XM177 - Colt Model 610, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, no FA, S-1-F

XM177E1 - Colt Model 609, 10" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM177E2 - Colt 629, 11.5" barrel, A1 rear sights, first gen retracting stock, 4.5" moderator, short round handguards, FA, S-1-F

XM4 - Colt 720, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4 - Colt 777 or 920, 14.5" barrel, A2 rear sights or flat top/detachable carrying handle, second gen retracting stock, M4 feed ramps, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

M4E1/M4A1 - Colt 921/921HB, 14.5" barrel, M4 feed ramps flat top/detachable carry handle, second gen or third gen retracting stock, A2 FH, short round handguards, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-F

M4E2 - Colt 925, 14.5" barrel, flat top/detachable carry handle, A2 rear sights, second gen retracting stock, A2 FH, KAC M4 RAS, FA, case deflector lump, S-1-3

XM106 - 20" HBAR profile (quick-change), permanently fixed triangular handguards, no case deflector lump, modified A1 rear sight, fixed stock, FA, birdcage FH, S-1-F

XM231/M231 - 15.6" barrel, FPW handguards, no case deflector, A1 style rear sights, retractable M3A1 style wire stock, no FA, A2 FH, S-F



Here's a picture of a M231.
www.autoweapons.com/photosv/portfireb.jpg
www.autoweapons.com/photosv/portfiree.jpg

Here's a picture of a M16A2E3 from Black Rifle II.
www.stwing.upenn.edu/~wcchang/M16/M16A2E3.jpg

Here's a picture of an XM106 disassembled from page 309 of The Black Rifle
www.stwing.upenn.edu/~wcchang/M16/XM106-split.jpg

Here's an image of a M60.
www.m60central.com/DOD(5).jpg

Here's a picture of a GAU-5/A lower with a M4 upper. Notice the lack of a magazine release fence and the A1 grip.
www.af.mil/media/photodb/web/web_030412-F-5789F-010.JPG
Click for hi-res version


Thx for the corrections, its alawys good to have Petti around, and I mean that. Its good to have those model numbers. I do have some questions though. First, I had always thought the M16A1E1 had all the A2 style features except for the A2 rear sights, in the end serving as a basis for the Diemaco C7. Is this wrong, or perhaps the initial A1E1s didn't have A2 rear sights but later ones did? Wouldn't put it past Colt. Also, I had always thought the M16A2E3 was an HBAR, or at least that was what I was led to believe (you also told me over at military photos that it corresponded with model 705 according to Jane's Infantry Weapon 1997-8), so I was wondering where the new information came from. I haven't had much chance to do any more research, so I'm guessing you have and you're right. I'm just curious where it came from.
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Link Posted: 2/7/2005 4:19:23 PM EST
Here are images of the M16A1E1 from The Black Rifle




As you can see, the M16A1E1 (Model 645) is identical to a M16A2 (Model 645) except for the A1-style pistol grip. However, the earliest M16A1E1s were completely M16A1-style except for the round handguard and Government-profile barrel. They still had the M16A1-style straight ring, M16A1 rear sights, and M16A1 buttstock. There were no lower receiver reinforcements and no case deflector. It was full-auto, not three-round burst. A Diemaco C7 does have the lower receiver reinforcements, the case deflector, the M16A2-length buttstock, and the canted delta ring.

The M16A2E3 (Model 646) became the M16A3. It clearly says so in the caption of the image of the M16A2E3 from Black Rifle II that I already posted. It's simply a fully-automatic version of the M16A2. Colt has separate model numbers for weapons sold to the US government and for weapons for commercial and export sale. Jane's Infantry Weapons 1997-8 listed the Model 705 as "M16A2 rifle. Export model with full automatic in place of three-round burst limiter. Also known as M16A2E3." The Biggerhammer entry is a copy of Jane's text. A M16A2E3/M16A3 sold to the US military is a Model 646. A M16A2E3/M16A3 sold to Israel is a Model 705. However, I personally believe that Jane's Infantry Weapon's entry on the Model 705 is incorrect, and meant to apply it to the Model 701. Most sources say the fully-automatic Model 701 is the commercial version of the Model 646 and the three-round burst Model 705 is the commercial version of the Model 645.

From your errors, I'm guessing your information comes from Duncan Long's The Complete AR-15/M16 Sourcebook. I strongly urge another reference. For example, he states that the Model 719 is the standard M16A2, though every other source I can find, Jane's Infantry Weapons, Ezell's Small Arms of the World, Rifles of the World, the "Identification Guide: Colt Models" articles in Small Arms Review, and both Black Rifle books state the M16A2 is a Model 645.
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Link Posted: 2/7/2005 5:05:41 PM EST
I've already bagged Duncan Long's book as my primary source.

Back in the project thread over at MilitaryPhotos.net we decided that the M16 PIP was the same as the M16A1E1. Were these really early A1E1s the PIPs?
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Link Posted: 2/7/2005 5:28:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/9/2005 5:29:54 AM EST by red65]
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Link Posted: 2/7/2005 6:31:09 PM EST
As part of the M16 Product Improvement Program, 50 M16A1E1s were ordered from Colt and tested. The M16A1E1 was then designated the M16A2. I would guess some pictures of M16A1E1s were taken before they were rebuilt with the new upper receiver with A2-rear sights and case deflector.

From The Black Rifle, by R. Blake Stevens and Edward C. Ezell, page 347. The section is titled JSSAP's Product Improvement Program ("PIP") Rifle - the "M16A1E1"


JSSAP tasked the USMC Firepower Division at Quantico, Virginia to oversee the Marine portion of the trial of the new rifles. Accordingly, the Marines conducted a modified operation test (MOT) from 23 November to 11 December 1981 using 30 of the PIP rilfes and 30 standard-issue M16A1s, and employing 20 Marines and 10 soldiers from 197th Infantry Brigade at Fort Benning. For identification purposes, the PIP rifles were designated the "M16A1E1".



The caption of the first picture I posted above, from page 348.


Above: standard M16A1.
Below: One of the first 50 Product Improved (PIP) rifles, called the "M16A1E1", ordered in 1981 by the Marines for trials with the USMC Firepower Division at Quantico, Virginia.



The caption of the second picture I posted above, from page 349.


Closeup of receiver markings of the early M16A1E1, made up on "M-16A1" lower receiver serial no. 4704772. Standard M16A1 pistol grip. Note modified markings on the (3-position) selector: AUTO is replaced with BURST.



From page 350, in the section titled Adopting the M16A1E1

The product-improved (PIP) "M16A1E1" was officially classified the M16A2 in September 1982, and adopted as Standard 'A' in November 1983.


From page 4, in Black Rifle II by Christopher R. Bartocci


The product-improved (PIP) "M16A1E1" was officially type classified the M16A2 (NSN 1005-01-128-9936) in September, 1982, and adopted as Standard 'A' in November, 1983, under government drawing 9349000 and Colt model number R0645.



From a photocaption of an M16A1E1 with an A1-style upper receiver on page 2 of Black Rifle II:


Right side view of the early experimental M16A1E1. This image originally appeared in TBRas fig. 369. Note the A1-style rear sight, stock, and pistol grip. The fully-adjustable rear sight, the fired cartridge case deflector, and the three-round burst control device had not yet been requested.



There is a photocaption on page 279 of Edward C. Ezell's The Great Rifle Controversy: Search for the Ultimate Infantry Weapon from World War II Through Vietnam and Beyond:


Left-side view of the test model of the M16A1E1 or product-improved M16A1 rifle jointly developed by the US Marine Corps and Colt Firearms.



From page 163 of Special Warfare Special Weapons by Kevin Dockery:


The Joint Services Small Arms Program (JSSAP) approved a joint-services approach to a new and improved M16A1 by ordering 50 Product Improvement Program (PIP) M16A1s from Colt to be delivered in November 1981. Designated the M16A1E1, the new rifles were extensively tested by the Marines during the last weeks of 1981. The result of the testing gave very favorable reporst on the accuracy, range, effectiveness, and handlign qualities of the M16A1E1. By September 1982, the M16A1E1 was type-classfied as the M16A2.



BTW, Kevin Dockery's Special Warfare Special Weapons or Weapons of the Navy SEALs is a valuable resource if you want to learn about the Rifle, 5.56mm Mark 4 Mod 0, that was used by the SEALs in Vietnam. It was a specially modified and waterproofed M16A1 with either a HEL M4 or KAC sound suppressor.
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Link Posted: 2/7/2005 7:32:36 PM EST
Thx a lot
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