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metroplex
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Posted: 12/30/2004 9:11:48 AM
Is there any nickel content in the AR-15 finish that would be directly in contact with the skin?
Centauro97
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Posted: 12/30/2004 9:43:42 AM
Are you nickel allergic?

All grip surfaces and butt stocks are polymer except the carbine extension tube that might contact your face and it should be anodized aluminum. So no nickel there.

Any incidental contact with the receiver is, again, with anodized aluminum.

D
gmtmaster
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Posted: 12/30/2004 11:04:03 AM
If you have a Bushmaster they are nickel acetate coated ( upper , lower)
metroplex
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Posted: 12/30/2004 11:34:05 AM
I have a RRA upper and an Ameetec lower.
metroplex
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Posted: 1/1/2005 12:56:10 PM
i might be allergic to nickel. I'm not sure though.
gmtmaster
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Posted: 1/1/2005 2:05:02 PM
Dont know about those as far as nickel goes.. But BMs are acetated.
MTNmyMag
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Posted: 1/1/2005 2:13:31 PM
All Ar-15s are composed almost entirely of nickel I am sorry for your affliction and will gladly take the AR off your hands
Lapp_Dance
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Posted: 1/1/2005 2:15:38 PM

Originally Posted By metroplex:
i might be allergic to nickel. I'm not sure though.



maybe you're allergic to one of the cleaning/lubricating agents?
Tolerance of others is difficult to learn, but easy to teach. -Me

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." --H.L. Mencken
Str8shot
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Posted: 1/1/2005 5:51:38 PM
The Army has reported some allergic reactions to CLP, also liver toxicity. I understand that CLP is no longer the Standard A for cleaner/lubricants and has been replaced with another chemical. Friends that served in the Gulf refered to the new stuff as 'Desert Spooge' . Stocks of CLP were supposed to be used until depleted and not replenished.

The aluminum parts used in the AR platform are supposed to be hard-coat anodized. No nickel there AFIK. The steel pieces are supposed to be Parkerized (phosphate finished). That's a powdered iron and phosphoric acid solution. I've never heard of any allergies reported with either of these methods.

I'm pretty much talking mil-std finishes here and not the various proprietary finishes used by some manufacturers. The DPMS Teflon coating and of course the electroless nickle SP1 'Champaigne Edition' come immediately to mind.
metroplex
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Posted: 1/1/2005 6:47:38 PM
Do you have any references to the Army findings on reactions to CLP?

Thanks
Gregory_K
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Posted: 1/1/2005 8:40:35 PM
2 or 3 version ag, CLP did contain liver killers.

The old formula milky yellow/ whie in color lots of ptfe.

It was one of the solvents in clp that was bad for humans this has been removed.
Gregory_K
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Posted: 1/1/2005 8:54:25 PM
Gregory_K
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Posted: 1/1/2005 9:11:49 PM
And if you want to dish out some cash.
stormingmedia
metroplex
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Posted: 1/1/2005 9:30:57 PM
Thanks for the info Greg... so far I've been trying to pinpoint the source of an allergic reaction to something... it looks like contact dermatitis but I've isolated all the unusual products and it leaves my rifles/ammo/CLP.
SickMAK90
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Posted: 1/1/2005 9:50:45 PM
Something has caused my finger to become infected twice after I got a small cut on my finger. I think I did it loading a magazine.

So I think the brass on it or the clp on it caused it. It relapsed after I stopped taking antibodics. Not sure whats causing it.
metroplex
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Posted: 1/1/2005 10:10:48 PM
I handled 500rd of loose M855 the other day and nothing "new" grew or acted up. I'm not 100% sure its the ammo that is causing it. But BF CLP seems to have been present when my condition flares up... I've noticed that whenever I spray it, my lips start to have some type of reaction. I always chalked it up to gunpowder or the like... but Greg's links raise some interesting questions.

I'll try to isolate the CLP as much as possible.
LarryLove
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Posted: 1/1/2005 11:41:15 PM

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Do you have any references to the Army findings on reactions to CLP?



I have no references, but I personally have become sensitized to CLP and have eliminated it completely from use. I had no reaction at first and used it for several years. Eventually, I developed a poison-ivy like rash/breakout on my hands when using it, which would last about 2 weeks. Eventually, even incidental contact would set off the reaction, and I thought it was getting worse each time. This is classic chemical contact dermititis and I wasn't about to have this reaction spread further to more important places like, say, my lungs. I switched to Ballistol, use it exclusively and haven't looked back.
Wingman26
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Posted: 1/2/2005 12:08:03 AM
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 12:09:30 AM by Wingman26]
I spent several years selling industrial chemicals and am quite aware of the dangers of Butoxyethanol, it's nasty stuff, from what they are saying CLP contains Butoxyethanol. Butoxyethanol is the strong smelling chemical used in many degreasers, it is often called butyl. Butyl is the strong smelling chemical contained in 409 household cleaner.

www.osha.gov/dts/sltc/methods/organic/org083/org083.html
Str8shot
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Posted: 1/2/2005 12:10:26 AM

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Do you have any references to the Army findings on reactions to CLP?

Thanks




I'll try to find something in print. I don't want to sound paranoid but the Army has a vested interest in keeping its findings on CLP pretty low-key. Imagine the Agent Orange claims magnified a thousandfold!

I do know that there were two problems identified. One was the liver toxicity issue, which of course was the much more serious of the two. This was the eventual cause of them stopping the use of CLP. The other was the contact dermatitis-like symptoms reported by many users. This problem was very difficult to pinpoint because of the users exposure to so many different substances that could elicit similar symptoms.

If you're experiencing sensitivity in your mouth and swelling of your lips when you come into contact with CLP stop using it immediately. I can tell you this much - I experience the same symptoms every time I walk past the herbicide/pesticide/insecticide shelves of a home improvement or gardening store. And it's not psychosomatic! The first few times that it happend I didn't even realize where I was standing. But CLP has never bothered me!

I'm not a physician, but it tells me something!
secondofangle
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Posted: 1/2/2005 1:17:19 AM

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Thanks for the info Greg... so far I've been trying to pinpoint the source of an allergic reaction to something... it looks like contact dermatitis but I've isolated all the unusual products and it leaves my rifles/ammo/CLP.



Please post a photo of your hand
"I'm gonna have me some fun...I'm gonna have me some fun."
b0ne
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Posted: 1/2/2005 1:37:29 AM
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 1:51:45 AM by b0ne]
I would suggest taking all the CLP and any associated material (contaminated rags, bore swabs, et cetra) and putting them up and away, "decontaminate" your AR, mags, etc, then switch to a different lube. M-Pro 7 products would be one suggestion. Try that for a while and see if the symptoms continue.

M-Pro 7 even has their own CLP. Remember that "CLP" is merely a type of product, not a particular product.

Here is their CLP MSDS: www.mp7.com/documents/MPro7CLPMSDS.pdf

CLP: www.mp7.com/NCLP.htm

I know for a fact that their stand-alone cleaner works very well, and is quite safe in comparsion to most other products. I'd like to try their CLP sometime.

Not that I'm suggesting that M-Pro 7 is the only option; it is just one of many.
metroplex
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Posted: 1/2/2005 9:16:42 AM
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 9:33:38 AM by metroplex]
I used BF CLP in a lot of places... I'll have to completely degrease the rifles, mags, etc... which shouldn't be a problem so long as it's the problem.

I'll give that a shot right away.

Here's a scan of my forearm - it's like this on both arms and a lot of places on my body. I'm not sure if it has spread to my liver though, but it's over my back and chest as well.



This is actually when the rashes aren't as bad. When they flare up, they form little pockets filled with a clear fluid. They're red patches that seem rather rough (and resemble pics of contact dermatitis) on my hands and arms, armpits. On my abdomen, legs, neck they're red dots that really itch.

The only other things worthy of mentioning is that I started using BF CLP before all this happened (roughly 6-7 months ago), went to NTC (Ft Irwin) for a week out in the desert when it was about 116*F-120*F, then I got a tetanus/Diptheria shot about 3 months ago (10 years was coming up).

I'm headed over to the dermatologist soon but I hate going to a doctor's office and running through the typical BS and getting a dictionary list of prescription meds for the wrong ailment.

I've prepared a list of unusual substances (non-routine that is) that I've been in contact with.
Centauro97
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Posted: 1/2/2005 10:27:22 AM
I am a physician, so here goes:

If it's on your back, I strongly doubt that it is a contact dermatitis, unless you're rolling in the stuff. Nickel is a contact irritant, so that's now no longer a factor.

2-butoxyethanol will only irritate the skin where it has defatted the skin due to prolonged or repeated exposure, so again, not the likely cause.

Your rash does look like a numular eczema, probably due to drying of the skin during the winter months. Itches badly and is somewhat persistent.

If it is allergic in origin, then benadryl will prevent or alleviate the rash. If benadryl doesn't affect it, it isn't allergic.

As a trial, try taking some plain vaseline petroleum jelly and applying a light coating to one arm immediately following a shower PRIOR TO DRYING with the towel. A light coat is all that's needed. If this helps after several days, it helps confirm xerosis (dry skin) as a factor.

Detective work is key in finding the cause. Looks like you're on the right path.

D
metroplex
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Posted: 1/2/2005 10:31:28 AM
[Last Edit: 1/2/2005 10:38:30 AM by metroplex]
It's on my ears as well, and forehead... This is my first cold Michigan winter (previously live in NJ for 20+ years). I'll try the vaseline test. Which Benadryl should I be using? The topical cream or something like Allergy + Cold tablets?

I did use CLP on the buttstock of my AR-15 but my face hasn't broken out (where I form the cheek weld).

I'm also theorizing it might be the galvanized pipes in the house that showed signs of corrosion the last time we opened it up to change shower faucets.
Centauro97
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Posted: 1/3/2005 10:40:30 AM
The pipe corrosion would be mostly zinc and iron. The zinc is often used to treat skin conditions, so doubt that's a cause.

Plain benadryl, 25 or 50mg, depending on your tolerance. Take it before bedtime initially, it'll knock you out. CTM causes less drowsiness, but is more expensive.

If it's an allergic reaction, benadryl will "cure" it overnight. Otherwise it's something else.

Soap can be a big problem. Dove is mildest and is routinely recommended by Dermatologist for dry skin problems. Double rinse clothing and stay away from fabric softeners until this clears up since they can further irritate your skin.