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SMGLee
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:33:23 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2004 7:35:34 PM by SMGLee]






I think the pictures are pretty self explanatory.
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SMGLee
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:34:29 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2004 7:37:23 PM by SMGLee]
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-4.jpg[/img] Notice the gas key is no long the key, it is soild and it is used by the piston rod to force the carrier back into the buffer tube. the Bolt also has no gas ring. [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-5.jpg[/img] Carrier exhibit no gas relief holes. [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-6.jpg[/img] The working end of the gas system.
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SMGLee
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:35:05 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2004 7:38:31 PM by SMGLee]
[img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-7.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-8.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/SS04/HKM4-9.jpg[/img] Close up shot of the HK manufactured receivers. The Made in Germany will be replace by Made in USA once the Georgia plant is up and operational.
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Sharpshot
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:42:21 PM
[wow] No matter what anyone says, that thing is one badass piece of hardware. Very cool pics. If I had gone they would have had to clean my drool up off the floor.
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Duffy
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:51:41 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2004 8:13:57 PM by Duffy]
I like that they used the Vltor stock, but that shiny purple ARMS knock-off mount? [stick]
Raptor22
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Posted: 2/16/2004 7:52:06 PM
Nice pics, Chen. Thanks for sharing.
Hoplophile
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:20:35 PM
I've seen a couple shots of the gas piston setup before. Is that the piston spring? Does it have a cover and this a 'cutaway' version for the show so that you can see the piston or is it actually exposed under the handguards like that?
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:28:59 PM
Its exposed under that handguards if I remember correctly. Chen?
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SMGLee
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Posted: 2/16/2004 8:30:04 PM
It is as it is under the handguard, I requested for the handguard to be removed for a photo op. The piston is just like the G36 piston and the op rod is not to far from the G36 rod. 20,000 round barrel life, but I would not trust any gun not to be cleaned for 20,000 as stated by HK. they had the brass from the demo on Wednesday, all the casing picked up from the ground are still shinny new, not to much carbon build up inside the receiver.
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MP906
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Posted: 2/16/2004 9:44:04 PM
I wonder if that would work with a RAS?
AKsRule
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Posted: 2/16/2004 9:49:09 PM
[b]Will the uppers work on ANY AR lower? [/b]
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BravoCompanyUSA
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Posted: 2/16/2004 10:48:53 PM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2004 10:50:54 PM by BravoCompanyUSA]
Talked with the HK guys at the SHOT SHOW. The upper is said to work with a "modified" [b]RIS.[/b] The uppers will work with all AR lowers, and are scheduled to be available for sale in "about a year". The HK M4 is NOT a priority of HK, the XM8 is. They said the HK uppers will be "competitively priced", (but from HK...not really sure what that means in $$$) HK Uppers are said to be available before the complete rifle is offered. The lower was said to be the same as other AR rifles, other than a Heavier Buffer. The uppers at the show did not have a ejection port cover. HK did that purposely. (don't know if I really like that) By the way, SMGLee - NICE PICTURES !
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frisco
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Posted: 2/16/2004 10:55:52 PM
Gas or piston, that sucker still needs an ejection port cover.
Lumpy196
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Posted: 2/16/2004 11:00:29 PM
I'll pass.
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colinjay
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Posted: 2/16/2004 11:32:57 PM
needs 2 things before i'll buy one 1. free floatable barrell wether it be RAS, ARMS whatever no free float, no buy 2. dust cover. if it dont work with one, it dont work with me.
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G-CODE
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Posted: 2/16/2004 11:48:18 PM
What Frisco and Lumpy said. I don't see how HK justifies no ejection port cover when they changed nothing internally to increase relibility as far as I know. Also, the spring above the barrel (I haven't figured out what exactly it does on the HK). Isn't that the same basic problem that the ZM weapons uppers have ( a spring exposed to heat that will lose temper due to heat created by very rapid fire or full-auto "abuse")? I'm still looking for the advantages of this "system" other than having to clean slightly less often.
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jason_h
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Posted: 2/17/2004 12:00:56 AM
If you look at the pick of the carrier, it's pretty obvious that more material on the carrier comes in contact with the inside of the upper receiver. Seems like this would make matters worse in a sandy environment. But what do I know, I am sure HK did plenty of testing and maybe the carrier does work better in such conditions.
crochunter
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Posted: 2/17/2004 1:08:00 AM
First of all, thanks for the awesome pics SMGLee! I like it--the only flaw I see in it is no ejection port. Wonder why?
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Master_Blaster
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Posted: 2/17/2004 1:19:35 AM
Needs a dust cover. Seems stupid to have removed it. Free float bbl. would be nice. I read on the HKUSA website that a monolithic upper is "...in the works", which could be intersting. Just replace the picatinney gas block w/ smaller, lighter G36-style one & extend the monolithic rail out over it, a la LMT MRP. Probably the biggest question on my mind concerns why they didn't use a stronger return spring on the piston rod assy & eliminate the rear buffer tube spring & buffer assy. I'd wager this setup allowed them to keep the stock handguards, but it still seems ludicrous to retain the rear buffer & spring when it could be eliminated. Weight looks to be a factor - the one w/ the 10" bbl. & milled-from-billet HG rail looks as if it could weigh ~10-12#. Quite a bit for a carbine.
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Posted: 2/17/2004 4:22:30 AM
What does it say on the other side of the receiver?
GoldtopDude
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Posted: 2/17/2004 9:32:20 AM
Very cool pics, thanks!
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HiramRanger
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Posted: 2/17/2004 9:49:23 AM
That detachable rear sight is rather interesting...
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Ridge
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Posted: 2/17/2004 11:11:13 AM
Originally Posted By G-CODE: What Frisco and Lumpy said. Also, the spring above the barrel (I haven't figured out what exactly it does on the HK).
From the SL8 manual: "The gas piston drives the bolt assembly rearward via the push rod. The return spring on the push rod returns the rod to it's starting position." So it keeps the rod that pushes the bolt back snug against the gas piston (resets the piston also). At least that is what it does on the G36/SL8/XM8.
Isn't that the same basic problem that the ZM weapons uppers have ( a spring exposed to heat that will lose temper due to heat created by very rapid fire or full-auto "abuse")?
I'm really not aware that this is a problem and cannot see how it could be any problem over any other design that has any kind of springs over the barrel. The ZM design actually has a heat sheild between the barrel and the spring. The G36/SL8/XM8/M1A/AK and many others all have springs close to the barrel, many of which are even closer than the ZM and are not sheilded, and they don't have any problems. So I can't see any issues with the HKM4s return spring being above the barrel.
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Posted: 2/17/2004 2:36:24 PM
Just to show you the seriousness of HK's turpitude of the M4, they go ahead and use the Larue mounts that definitely are an adbomination of ARMS quality products. Keep it!
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Posted: 2/17/2004 3:04:29 PM
Hey Chen, I'll hand back "da man" title to you now. I can't wait.
SMGLee
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Posted: 2/17/2004 3:23:40 PM
Originally Posted By 223Rem: Just to show you the seriousness of HK's turpitude of the M4, they go ahead and use the Larue mounts that definitely are an adbomination of ARMS quality products. Keep it!
Some one at HK is probably friends with Mike LaRue and used his product as a favorite. I have to agree, the LaRue products seem to be a blantant rip off of the ARMS product. and as far as quality, the LaRue is no where near the superb quality of the ARMS units.
Fly Low, And Avoid The Radar. Chen Lee CL Tactical CLTactical.com 909-966-5020
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