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Posted: 4/24/2003 5:47:48 PM EST
I am looking to buy one of these at my gunstore for about $750, your opinions please and it's the first time I will own an AR15, the +'s and -'s? I assume the stock is not adjustable and is it cheap to buy a 30-rd clip instead of the included 10rd? Ammo cost of the .223 compared to 7.62x39? Newbie here. Thanks!
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:22:50 PM EST
Welcome to the board. You will fine just about anything you want to know here. I sure have. I have the rifle your speaking of and I love it. If it has the mini-y comp just be prepared because it’s damn LOUD. If it’s new that’s a good price also. The stock is pined in place. You can find 30 round magazines on this board in the equipment exchange. Pick up a couple of 20 round magazines too because they are better for shooting prone or from a bench. The ammo cost a little more than 7.63x39 but you can find good ammo at reasonable prices. I don’t want to start a flame war but my rifle shoots good with the Russian ammo made by Burnaul. It’s around $55.00 per 500 rounds. I’ve had my Bushmaster M4gery for less than a year and It’s had about 1500-2000 rounds through it without a hiccup. If you get it I’m sure you will like it as much as I like mine.
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:44:16 PM EST
Youre going to love it. If you can, get an A3 flat top. You WILL want to add optics down the road. $750.00 is a great price if it's new. And with the money youre saving get you some M4 hand guards to complete the look, the bushy's come with carbine hand guards. YOU WILL LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:44:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2003 6:49:40 PM EST by Gunslinger808]
If you can get one DO SO! Damn good weapon for home defense and general shooting. They are accurate, dependable, and ammo is somewhat inexpensive ($185.00 for 1000). Thirty round mags. can be had for about $30.00 BTW good handle, Think I'll put some Saint on, and drink a few beers.
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Posted: 4/24/2003 7:13:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2003 7:14:51 PM EST by MarineNP]
Welcome to the club bro. You won't go wrong by getting a Bushmaster. Like the others said, get the M4A3 flattop upper receiver so that you can either mount optics or a carry handle if you want one. Here is a pic my Bushy XM15 with M4A3 upper, ARMS #38 EX Swan Sleeve, fixed tele-stock, M33 handguards, etc. I have since added an ambidextrous pistol grip to it. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p80579e8f498ce5b3813104d7dfdf86dd/fc4a62d3.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 4/24/2003 7:39:16 PM EST
Just shot my first M4 today. I have a bushy HBAR 16 and 20 and dammit that M4 was no good. Completely different experience than a straight HBAR with no comp. If you buy an M4 you will send it off to Kurts to take that damn mini y comp off!
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Posted: 4/24/2003 7:52:26 PM EST
Dont worry about that mini y shit. Guns are loud if you dont know that by now you dont need a gun. They are not as bad as people think. If you use good hearing protection you wont have any problems.
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Posted: 4/24/2003 7:52:36 PM EST
If you do take the mini y-comp off, just remember your barrel can't be under 16" without it.
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Posted: 4/24/2003 9:18:28 PM EST
Luckily its not my M4 i was thinking of buying one but not now. I have shot guns all my life and there is a difference between having a good time and having a good headache. Its not really any louder but why do they have to blow the gases back at you and not straight out the side. Loud isnt what i am talking about i know and everybody else knows guns are loud! But having the gases blown back in your face after every shot is a bit much. I threw a mag in it and was ready to rock, pulled the trigger once and ejected my mag out and stuck it back in my 16 hbar and had a good time. My buddy said the same thing and will be sending it off to kurts to get some work done on it.
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Posted: 4/24/2003 10:59:11 PM EST
It's all about personal preference. I respect the opinion of those that don't like the Mini-Y. Personally, I have no problem with it. To the contrary, I think it works well, and does what it's intended to do. I also like the fact that I can clear out the two benches on either side of me at the range. [;)]
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Posted: 4/24/2003 11:22:06 PM EST
While you can't really go wrong with a Bushmaster, you might be better off with another model. The M4A3 is a really nice *looking* rifle, at it's no slouch at shooting, either, but in my view, too many of its features are purely cosmetic. 1. The tele-style stock is more form than function, as it saves practically no weight and is, IMHO, not as comfortable as a standard A2 stock. In addition, a standard stock gives you room for storage. It looks cool from a distance, but in my eyes, if it doesn't function, its a toy! 2. The Mini-Y compensator, while highly effective, features rear-facing ports which direct gases rearward in the immediate vicinity of (if not directly at) the shooter. Muzzle brakes/compensators are loud, but this design exacerbates the problem. It is true that given proper hearing protection, this isn't a tremendous problem, but it may be if you are visiting a smaller range, or need to shoot without proper protection (i.e. home defense). 3. The noise of shooting AR15/M16s never bothered me at the range (even when using POS mil-issued ear plugs), but why increase the risk of hearing damage when there are better alternatives? There are alternative muzzle brakes available, but... 4. The 14.5" barrel creates limitations on the choice of available muzzle attachments. The attachment must yield an overall barrel length of 16" for legal purposes. Kurts Kustom Firearms makes an extended brake for this purpose. If however, you come to decide that you are not comfortable with/don't like muzzle brakes, you will still need some extension installed to make the barrel a legal 16". Why not start off with a 16" upper (M4, Hbar, or Superlight), then allow yourself the opportunity to decide whether or not you want a brake attached. I myself have traded in my 14.5" M4A3 for Bushmaster's 16" M4-profile upper with standard A2-type lower. The 16" should be more effective overall, and if I want a brake I can always add it later for $100 or less (installed). Again, you really can't go (completely) wrong buying any Bushmaster, but some are better choices than others. Which ever one you choose, enjoy!
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Posted: 4/25/2003 3:31:56 AM EST
Excellent rifle, good price. Welcome.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 3:38:20 AM EST
Thanks for the information, I was concerned about the muzzle brake also and the extra noise it creates, but it does look so cool and the tele. stock I know is gimmicky, but again it looks damn good! I guess the mini y is another term for muzzle? As for price, I live close to AIM surplus which has them NIB! Thanks again.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 4:34:05 AM EST
I second everything that joelfox said in his excellent post above. A month or so ago I bought a Bushmaster carbine with A2 stock, 14.5" bbl with AK brake and I am well satisfied with it. I much prefer the A2 stock to the carbine stock for comfort and ergonomics; I cannot get a good cheek weld with the tubular carbine stock. I have fired one with a mini-Y and agree that it is very effective at virtually eliminating climb. I don't mind the noise, but I DO NOT like the back blast, which I find annoying and distracting. I've got about 500 rounds thru my A2 stocked, AK braked carbine and NOT ONE failure. Noah
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Posted: 4/25/2003 4:38:53 AM EST
Re stocks and carbines, you guys here have pretty well convinced me to try the ACE skeleton stock on the Stoner SR-15 M4 carbine I've got coming in.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 5:45:29 AM EST
Saint, Fellow newb here....just got my M4 (A2) from AIM as well. AWESOME rifle. Like you, I combed these boards for info before purchasing, and for what it's worth, here's my "newb" comments: -AIM rocks- great customer service and the price can't be beat! -I bought this rifle for about 99% FUN. I went with the A2 version because I think the carry handle completes the "look", along with that cool M4 stock (superficial I know, but hey, it's just for fun!) -I'm considering getting a red dot, and will just mount it on the carry handle! -As for the Wolf debate: I shot about 60 rds of XM193 followed by about 180 rds of Wolf. Not a SINGLE problem. I'm somewhat anal about all of my hobbies, and will likely clean it after every range visit. No worries... -As for the mini-Y, I live somewhat close to Kurt, and thought I'd be bringing it to him right away. After my first range visit- it wasn't really that bad (although the range was somewhat empty...BEFORE I started shooting). I might give it a few more tries before seeing Kurt. In summary- I am ecstatic about every aspect of the rifle. You'll be happy you went with BM. I'm in "accessory heaven" right now (much to the wife's chagrin), looking for a better sling, carry case, and whatever else I can get my hands on. Good luck and congrats!
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Posted: 4/25/2003 6:04:22 AM EST
bought my first AR over a month ago, a brand new bushmaster xm15 e2s M4 with the A2 handle, its mainly for shooting up old computers so i went with the A2 to save some money and i got a pretty good deal on it(785$) so if you can get it for 750$ i'd jump on it... i like that the bushmaster comes with a nice hardcase and their 10 round mags look very nice compared to what other brands give you, i kinda like the blow back from the mini-y, because when i'm shooting with all my 7.62 owning buddies and having to listen to "inferior ballistics blah blah blah" its fun to just open up within 5 feet of them and shut em up
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Posted: 4/25/2003 6:47:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By 5subslr5: Re stocks and carbines, you guys here have pretty well convinced me to try the ACE skeleton stock on the Stoner SR-15 M4 carbine I've got coming in.
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I've heard nothing but good things about the Ace so far, and plan on trying it myself on at least one rifle. It looks good, it's very strong, and according to all reports I've read, it's comfortable too. In other words, it's *not* just a toy.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:08:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By flyhoovers: I went with the A2 version because I think the carry handle completes the "look", along with that cool M4 stock (superficial I know, but hey, it's just for fun!)
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The real current mil-spec M4 carbine has a flat-top & removable handle, so the A2 upper does not represent the real "look" About the "look"... if the look you're after is that of the real military M4 carbine, look elsewhere. The Bushmaster is *not* the most accurate representation. Actually, Colt makes the most authentic M4-alike (it's actually marked M4 Carbine on the receiver!). In addition, the Colt has the correct side-mounted sling swivel and M4 handguards. It has a full 16" barrel, so you can remove the Colt muzzle brake and install any of a wide variety of alternatives. With Kurt's A2 brake or FFS, you would have the most realistic post-ban M4 posssible. Superficially, the Colt wins.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:32:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By joelfox: The real current mil-spec M4 carbine has a flat-top & removable handle, so the A2 upper does not represent the real "look"
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I have seen many pics from Iraq of A2 upper M4's The flat top is the standard, but not the only version out there
About the "look"... if the look you're after is that of the real military M4 carbine, look elsewhere. The Bushmaster is *not* the most accurate representation.
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Why not ?
Actually, Colt makes the most authentic M4-alike (it's actually marked M4 Carbine on the receiver!).
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Yea, it sure does...says m4 carbine, in little bitty letters under that big old MATCH TARGET [rolleyes]
In addition, the Colt has the correct side-mounted sling swivel and M4 handguards.
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Yup, it comes with them, but they can be added to the bushy with the money saved in the cost difference.
It has a full 16" barrel, so you can remove the Colt muzzle brake and install any of a wide variety of alternatives. With Kurt's A2 brake or FFS, you would have the most realistic post-ban M4 posssible.
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Gee, if "looks" is what your after....a "real M4" has a 14.5" barrel...like the bushy. You can add any muzzle brake to the bushy as well.
[red]Superficially[/red], the Colt wins.
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A good choice of words.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:46:00 AM EST
Originally posted by 5subslr5: Re stocks and carbines, you guys here have pretty well convinced me to try the ACE skeleton stock on the Stoner SR-15 M4 carbine I've got coming in.
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Check out TitaniumT's mini thread for a couple of good pics of a BM with a non-gizmo'd M4 style barrel and an Ace ARFX stock.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:50:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By SPECTRE: I have seen many pics from Iraq of A2 upper M4's The flat top is the standard, but not the only version out there
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As I said, the *current* spec M4 is a flat-top
Yup, it comes with them, but they can be added to the bushy with the money saved in the cost difference.
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In my locale, the price difference between the Bushmaster ($900-950) & the Colt ($999 - $1050) is a mere $49-$100. Again, if you *superficially* wanted a *pretty* M4-alike rifle, the Colt would be worth that small difference. That said, I'd still rather support Bushmaster.
Gee, if "looks" is what your after....a "real M4" has a 14.5" barrel...like the bushy. You can add any muzzle brake to the bushy as well.
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The poster I was responding indicated that they bought the rifle for fun and its *looks*. Yes, the real M4 has a 14.5" barrel, which is an NFA firearm in the civilian world. The Bushmaster requires an extended-length muzzle brake to bring it to legal length. You cannot add "any muzzle brake" to the Bushmaster... if you want it to remain legal, that is.
[red]Superficially[/red], the Colt wins.
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A good choice of words.
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Thank you
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Posted: 4/25/2003 8:07:53 AM EST
Armoredsaint: since you're going to AIM, pick up a couple of orlite (sp?) 30 rnd mags to go with it-- if they have any, or the english steel 30 rnd mags. Ask them to fit a couple of empty (!) mags in the well for fit and drop. I have bought a couple BM's from them and they were always accomodating about test fitting the plastic mags--- some fit better than others. Having said that, I will repeat the usual mantra: orlites are okay for the range, but get USGI for when it absolutely positively has to work the first time every time. I have had only two failure-to-feeds from the plastic mags in about 1000 rounds-- good enough for the range, but not real life. As for the noise, yes it will clear out the guy shooting 22LR next to you, but I can usually find a slot next to someone shooting .270 or larger (show you mine, show me yours...) or just shoot pistol till the range thins out. When the line is crowded though, well, my fees cost as good as the next guys...
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Posted: 4/25/2003 8:18:51 AM EST
I got a BM M4A3 a couple months ago and I love it. I ordered a Vltor Modstock from Coal Creek Armory, and I have a Aimpoint Comp ML2 and I have the knights 30mm offset mount on order. One thing I love about AR's is the ability to swap out uppers!
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Posted: 4/25/2003 9:29:29 AM EST
I was at the gunstore again today to finalize my choice and just for the heck of it I held the AK-47 SAR-1 and it's just amazing after playing w/ the AR15, the SAR-1 is very poor in quality (unreadible etching, canted sights and piston), I know I am comparing apples to oranges, but I am so spoiled for the AR15 now! Difference in driving a Geo Metro and then to a Ferrari! No offense on the AK-47, I almost brought the AK last week!
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Posted: 4/25/2003 10:07:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By KODoc:
Originally posted by 5subslr5: Re stocks and carbines, you guys here have pretty well convinced me to try the ACE skeleton stock on the Stoner SR-15 M4 carbine I've got coming in.
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Check out TitaniumT's mini thread for a couple of good pics of a BM with a non-gizmo'd M4 style barrel and an Ace ARFX stock.
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Will do.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 10:07:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2003 10:09:01 AM EST by chuckhammer]
Originally Posted By armoredsaint: I was at the gunstore again today to finalize my choice and just for the heck of it I held the AK-47 SAR-1 and it's just amazing after playing w/ the AR15, the SAR-1 is very poor in quality (unreadible etching, canted sights and piston), I know I am comparing apples to oranges, but I am so spoiled for the AR15 now! Difference in driving a Geo Metro and then to a Ferrari! No offense on the AK-47, I almost brought the AK last week!
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Welcome to the club! I own a Bushy A2 14.5" w/AK brake and I love it. It's had over 800 NATO-pressure rounds through it without a hitch. I think you'll like your Bushy. Several folks have reported fit and finish problems with their Romanian SAR series AKs. Then again, it's a $300 auto-loader. You can get nicer AKs but they cost almost as much as an AR. I'll eventually end up buying an AK-type rifle just to round out the collection. [Edited for format and other analities.]
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Posted: 4/25/2003 10:11:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2003 11:25:10 AM EST by joelfox]
Originally Posted By armoredsaint: I held the AK-47 SAR-1 and it's just amazing after playing w/ the AR15, the SAR-1 is very poor in quality
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The SAR series are perhaps the worst-quality AKs ever built. I myself just bought a well-worn Norinco BWK-92 Sporter 5.56mm AK as a plinker; the parts to refurbish it are cheap and plentiful, and it's durable. Still, there is no way you can compare a shabby kit-built AK like the SAR to an AR-15. Only AKs like Arsenal's SAM-7 should be held up for adequate comparison.
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Posted: 4/25/2003 12:13:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/25/2003 12:15:21 PM EST by Procop606]
You will definitely like the Bushy M4. I've been carrying mine on duty in my cruiser for a while now, and I've spent more on accessories than I did on the rifle. You'll get the gear bug if you dont have it already, trust me. Oh yeah, you gotta have an AK or two in the safe to round out the collection. I've got a Bulgarian SLR with the milled reciever, and am piddling with a Polish PMK kit and reciever I ordered a couple weeks ago.
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