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Basic
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Posted: 12/4/2002 9:13:12 PM EST
Went to a gun show here in Illinois last week and got a shock. Colt brand ar-15's that are pre-ban are "HOT" and super expensive as compaired to the other brands. I'm new to this, are the Colt's really that much better than the rest?
I ask a dealer there the same question and he said: "Well you know the old saying... you get what you pay for" it's vevy true when you buy a Colt, yes they are one of the best, if not the best, but more importantly they will keep their resale value better than any other brand period

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Link Posted: 12/4/2002 9:25:51 PM EST
From what I understand, any IL gun show will be a bit more pricy than "normal". While true that Colts usually are a bit ($50-100) more than Bushmaster, they shouldn't be ungodly higher than any other pre-ban in the same config, IMO. My AR-15 is a Colt, I wouldn't have any other brand but that's just me. >gg< IMO pre-bans aren't worth the extra $$. I'd just put what I wanted to on my post ban & then not call attention to myself by acting like an idiot. But that's just me. >gg<
I live in a modest home with an immodest array of firearms.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 2:01:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2002 2:03:20 AM EST by Gecko]
My prediction: Starting soon the pre-ban market will soften as most people will not be willing to spend the extra money, confident that the SAW law will sunset. If it does, then there are going to be a lot of unhappy pre-ban owners. On the other hand, if it does not sunset then the prices will rise, dramatically and there will be a lot of unhappy non pre-ban owners. As for myself, I have little confidence that the law will be allowed to sunset, regardless of a Republican legislature and President. I have hedged my bet and recently bought a verifiable DPMS lower at a fair price. If the law sunsets then I won't be out of a whole heck of a lot of money (as I will still have a reasonably good lower). If the law doesn't sunset then chances are that even the DPMS lower's value will jump. Sort of like playing the stock market and futures.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 3:02:42 AM EST
yea, i picked up one a couple years back for $1500.00. i also got a Armalite for 700.00. believe me if the AWB sunsets i will be happy as hell!!! because the armalite is getting a face lift!

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 3:35:21 AM EST
I have a Bushmaster post-ban and have no need or desire for a pre but to each his own. I can legally put on my Busmaster all I want on it. Buy and own what you want and be happy! I love shooting my AR and my M1A.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:19:53 AM EST
Forget COLT. I wouldn't have one if they were free. It bugs me they way they've 'sold-out' to the gun grabbers, with different pin sizes, sear blocks, etc. Anybody who buys a new COLT is a fool.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:24:57 AM EST
They are definitely worth more than the others, imho. You will not get a dud when you buy a Colt SP1. Read the horror stories about the other brands and you'll see the shoddy workmanship and problems. With Colt, all you will get is complaints about the company selling out or the ungodly high prices of a preban, but you will hardly find a thread about a Colt that has problems. There are only two kinds of AR15s, prebans, and those that wish they were prebans.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 7:45:54 AM EST
MO: Preban Colts are worth $100 - $200 more than Bushmasters. Postban Colts are worth less than Bushmasters. Colt's QC had gone down the crapper in the last 4 years. Some of their earlier post ban guns (94 - 98) are ok, but nothing since then.
If it ain't broken, Don't break it.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 8:53:51 AM EST
While the Colt's will often have an asking price of one or maybe two hundred more than a comprable Armalite or Bushmaster AR15 there is virtually no difference between a good Bushy and a good Colt. If you are buying new and get a DMPS, or Armalite or Bushy or Colt with a problem make them make it right! I have both Colt and DPMS and have never had a problem with any of them. Getting a M4 configuration Cavalry Arms CAV-15 any day now. This is the one with a one piece synthetic lower/buttstock. Should be interesting! Calvary Arms is close, so I have NO RISK here either, a modern derivation and at a great price too.
Go away AWB
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:00:32 AM EST
IMO, everyone should have one preban and several postbans: If the ban sunsets - you now have some [i]more[/i] prebans. Yay! If the ban renews - you still have that one preban and its value will increase.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:09:13 AM EST
Colt's seem to hold their value. I'll sell you mine. [:D]





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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:11:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrP: Postban Colts are worth less than Bushmasters.
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Riiight... That's why you see basic post-ban Bushmasters for around $650 and basic Colts for around $750. uh huh.





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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:30:49 AM EST
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=148103&page=1[/url]





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Basic
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:32:57 AM EST
I could care less about the namebrand issue - I bought by preban Colt for $700 in 98 and my preban Oly Arms the same year for $750 - to me those prices are slightly inflated but decent. For the record, my preban Colt has a BUSHMASTER M-4 barrel on it and I like it just fine. My Oly Arms has a BUSHMASTER barrel on it as well. My postban Bushmaster has a Colt barrel on it. To me, yes you get what you pay for but its a PART! Guns are tools to me so naturally I buy good quality - Oly Arms has disappointed me on the whole QA/QC issue but Bushmaster and Colt have both been good - and I've never heard anything bad about Armalite or DPMS that I can remember. I can't understand why somone would pay $1500 or $2000 for a preban Colt AR-15 when the same money around here will purchase a quality preban FN MFG FAL, Daewoo K-2, Galil, perhaps even a Steyr AUG made before the 94 ban. To each their own - but I put enough rounds through my AR's that namebrand or mind condition aren't buying factors.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 9:56:38 AM EST
Colts are worth the Money, especially a Pre Ban SP1. Superior quality over the rest with historical value shields more collectability and a higher cost. Yes, "you get what you pay for". I will put my SP1 up against any new AR of another manufacturer.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 2:14:07 PM EST
The reason I would pay more for a pre-ban Colt is the ease in verifying its grandfathered status. Colt NEVER sold lowers, only complete rifles. If the serial number says it was made before 9/13/94, then you know that it was an assembled pre-ban rifle. Sure Bushmaster and other companies sold complete rifles, but also sold lowers as well. You then have to get one of those letters from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban. Sounds like more of a hassle than I want to deal with. Essential Arms never sold complete rifles, so I myself will never buy one. I know a guy down the road who would sell me an AR-15 built on an Essential Arms lower for $500, but I have turned him down to do the legal ramifications of proving when it was assembled. (And, no, I cannot let him sell it to any of you either. [;)])

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 2:22:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By J_Smith: I can't understand why somone would pay $1500 or $2000 for a preban Colt AR-15 when the same money around here will purchase a quality preban FN MFG FAL, Daewoo K-2, Galil, perhaps even a Steyr AUG made before the 94 ban. To each their own - but I put enough rounds through my AR's that namebrand or mind condition aren't buying factors.
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If you see any REAL Fn Fals or GALILS even a USR for $ 1500.00 would you be so kind to point me to it :) BTW if the ban does sunset Colt preban will not loose much value in comparison to other brands.

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 2:36:57 PM EST
If the serial number says it was made before 9/13/94, then you know that it was an assembled pre-ban rifle. Sure Bushmaster and other companies sold complete rifles, but also sold lowers as well. [b]You then have to get one of those letters from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban.[/b]
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Not true. The AWB does not say anything about that.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 3:01:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By Energizer:
Originally Posted By MrP: Postban Colts are worth less than Bushmasters.
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Riiight... That's why you see basic post-ban Bushmasters for around $650 and basic Colts for around $750. uh huh.
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I have seen enough new factory Colts come through the store to understand why we don't stock them anymore. I'm not saying what people pay for them, I'm saying what they are worth in my opinion. It's like people paying more for Colt preban USGI 30s. No reason for it, other than it says Colt. I'll take a factory new Bushmaster over a factory new Colt any day of the week.
If it ain't broken, Don't break it.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:09:02 PM EST
What do you diehard COLT fans like about the new Colts? They're not mil-spec anymore, you can't put any of the nice trigger-sets sold for them because the pins are the wrong size, and if you look close, you don't see any of the supposed 'quality'. I think it's like buying a leather wallet at a truck stop, or a harley shop, one of them is badly overpriced for what you get!

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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:13:36 PM EST
And it is ridiculous how people are willing to pay 50 bucks for Colt Mags that aren't even made by Colt and are exactly the same as other manufacturers.
Don't tread on me.
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:21:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By montanaman: Forget COLT. I wouldn't have one if they were free. It bugs me they way they've 'sold-out' to the gun grabbers, with different pin sizes, sear blocks, etc. Anybody who buys a new COLT is a fool.
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Someone's jealous that hthey can't afford a Colt! ;) I've got a Colt SP1. Best rifle i ever owned. You can't pay me enough to get rid if it. It's part of the permanent collection...along with the Colt 1991A1
Isaiah 16:11 "Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp..."
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Link Posted: 12/5/2002 6:09:54 PM EST
I could have bought any AR I wanted, and I bought a BUSHMASTER 20" A3 version. It is mil-spec, and was much-better made than the COLT I looked at that same day.

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 1:37:04 AM EST
I've had Colts, Bushmasters, PWA, RRA, and I sure don't see Colt as superior in any way. In fact, I own all those brands NOW. Still can't see anything about Colt that makes it any better. The only reason for the higher prices is the desire to own a rifle with the little horse on the side, as if Sam Colt had anything to do with the damn thing. Note that the military is buying their new rifles mostly from FN.
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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 4:52:02 AM EST
The military is buying M16A2s from FN. Last I heard they were buying M4s from Colt.

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 5:13:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By MrP: I'll take a factory new Bushmaster over a factory new Colt any day of the week.
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Same here, without hesitation. Colt's military hardware may be up to snuff, but their new civilian stuff is crap.
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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 9:41:35 AM EST
No Colt's allowed here! not my AR's, not my 1911's, not even a Woodsman!
" no tack (driver), no bull (barrel)" -damn "Feinstein state"
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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 12:31:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By coltcarbine:
If the serial number says it was made before 9/13/94, then you know that it was an assembled pre-ban rifle. Sure Bushmaster and other companies sold complete rifles, but also sold lowers as well. [b]You then have to get one of those letters from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban.[/b]
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Not true. The AWB does not say anything about that.
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Maybe I should rephrase my thoughts. The Clinton Crime Bill of '94 says that the weapon [b]must have been assembled[/b] into an AW before 9/13/94 to be grandfathered. If you bought a stripped lower before the ban, it had to be assembled into a complete rifle before the ban. A lower made before the ban could [b]NOT[/b] be assembled into an AW after the ban. Colt only sold complete rifles. All the other companies sold complete rifles and separate lowers (or maybe not even complete rifles, as in Essential Arm's case). Therefore, you must be able to prove its state of completion on 9/13/94. A letter from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban would be sufficient. Lets say that you bought a stripped Bushmaster lower before the ban. The government can request proof that it was assembled into an AW before the ban and you had better have receipts to back it up. I want no part of any "pre-ban" AR-15's that started life as a separate lower, just to save myself future hassles. Now things may be a little different if you personally bought the stripped lower, assembled it before the ban, and still possess it today. But I sure wouldn't stake my freedom on someone else's word that they assembled it in time. That's why I would choose Colt for a pre-ban rifle. I have no problem with the other companies' post-ban rifles.

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 12:47:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness: The reason I would pay more for a pre-ban Colt is the ease in verifying its grandfathered status. Colt NEVER sold lowers, only complete rifles. If the serial number says it was made before 9/13/94, then you know that it was an assembled pre-ban rifle. Sure Bushmaster and other companies sold complete rifles, but also sold lowers as well. You then have to get one of those letters from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban. Sounds like more of a hassle than I want to deal with. Essential Arms never sold complete rifles, so I myself will never buy one. I know a guy down the road who would sell me an AR-15 built on an Essential Arms lower for $500, but I have turned him down to do the legal ramifications of proving when it was assembled. (And, no, I cannot let him sell it to any of you either. [;)])
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Yeah I can see how much trouble it would be to call Bushmaster on their 800 number to verify the status on it and send you a letter. Damn a free phone call, I refuse to pay for that!! [:\] [beer]

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 3:13:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By HighlandMac:
Originally Posted By M4Madness: The reason I would pay more for a pre-ban Colt is the ease in verifying its grandfathered status. Colt NEVER sold lowers, only complete rifles. If the serial number says it was made before 9/13/94, then you know that it was an assembled pre-ban rifle. Sure Bushmaster and other companies sold complete rifles, but also sold lowers as well. You then have to get one of those letters from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban. Sounds like more of a hassle than I want to deal with. Essential Arms never sold complete rifles, so I myself will never buy one. I know a guy down the road who would sell me an AR-15 built on an Essential Arms lower for $500, but I have turned him down to do the legal ramifications of proving when it was assembled. (And, no, I cannot let him sell it to any of you either. [;)])
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Yeah I can see how much trouble it would be to call Bushmaster on their 800 number to verify the status on it and send you a letter. Damn a free phone call, I refuse to pay for that!! [:\] [beer]
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Basically I just don't want to carry the paper around everywhere or safeguard it at home in case the JBT's say,"Ver are yur papers?" [:D]

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 3:29:55 PM EST
[url]http://www.bushmaster.com/documents/prebanpostban.asp[/url] [8d]
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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 3:46:40 PM EST
I have a Colt AR15 ST(1993) that I bought from an individual for $700 this past July. For that price wheather the ban is lifted or not I won't feel bad either way. If I was to buy a new AR15 I would get a Bushy or a DPMS.

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Link Posted: 12/6/2002 5:28:26 PM EST
This topic comes up all the time and it's always the same. I haven't been posting for very long but I've been visiting the site for a couple of years and I'm of the opinion that all the manufactures have their pluses and their minuses. If you look on this site you'll see people praising and slamming each and every one of them. Buy what you want and what you can afford and have fun. IMO an AR is an AR is an AR is ... ah, you get the point. Ever since I was a kind I wanted an AR. I begged my Dad to get me one. Now that I can buy my own I have 2 Colts. My next one, a Bushmaster and after that a Rock River Arms. I don't hate or love any of them, I want one of each!

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Link Posted: 12/7/2002 6:37:35 AM EST
I purposely stayed away from Colt when I got my preban. Who needs all that sear blocking, funky pin crap? Found a nice verified preban Bushmaster HBAR Target that went well with my other Bushies. Works like a charm and came NIB, although the upper was a bit purple [;)]. I paid a bit over $1500 for the complete rifle but haven't regretted it at all. Colt made a buttload of rifles before the ban while Bushmaster had quite a few less. I like my spec Bushy over any PC-ified Colt rifle!

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Link Posted: 12/8/2002 2:15:39 AM EST
Therefore, you must be able to prove its state of completion on 9/13/94. A letter from the manufacturer stating that it left the factory as a complete rifle before the ban would be sufficient. Lets say that you bought a stripped Bushmaster lower before the ban. The government can request proof that it was assembled into an AW before the ban and you had better have receipts to back it up.
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M4mad, I agree with you, but what I'm saying is that's a good plan to C.Y.A. The AWB does not state that you have to have a letter. If it were me, I would not have a letter. The reason why is, they can't prove it wasn't , just the same as I can't prove it was. Also, I don't know of anyone that has gotten into trouble with this. I think this has been asked on here before, "does anyone know of someone that has gotten into trouble trying to prove a preban was assembled.........." I'm on your side, Bro.
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Link Posted: 12/8/2002 9:00:26 AM EST
Contrary to my screen name, I'm not really partial to one manufacturer or the other. I've owned or shot, Bushmsasters, Colts, RRA's Essential Arms, and Olympics...I love them all. Personally if someone wants to spend 2,000 dollars for a preban Colt...go for it...you won't see me doing it though(the colt I owned-for a mere two weeks mind you, I paid only 1,200 bucks for)...I'll take that 8 or 900 PWA and turn it into the same damn gun.... My .02 cents.

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