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Posted: 11/19/2011 11:40:05 PM
[Last Edit: 11/19/2011 11:43:17 PM by supplex]
building an upper, 18" SS with a2 flash hider, lo pro gas block.
Ordered everything from AA: gas block, gas tube, barrel, bolt, flash hider, magazine. Now I've done quite a few builds. This one was different. First off, no roll pin was included for the gas tube. I called AA and the lady who answered the phone (tone: not so friendly) indicated that she knew no roll pin was included, and said that it was a standard part, implying that I should have these laying around OK, fine, so I don't have these laying around. I asked what size it was and was forwarded to a very nice gentlemen with an accent who answered my question and recommended I get a SS roll pin. He went into detail about electrolysis and so forth. I thanked him for the info and his time.
As it were, local hardware stores do not carry .078" x .391" stainless roll pins
For the time being I used a standard roll pin, which I had to cut down so it didn't hang out the side of the GB. Point being the roll pin is not a very standard item. I can order 100 of them from mcmaster carr plus shipping if I so choose. Now, I am currently stuck having to find a peel washer because the AA barrel threads do not clock the AA flash hider correctly, about 90 degrees off. So I'm off to the hardware store again to find a washer tomorrow. If AA wants to chime in I would appreciate it. But not overly impressed thus far. and yes, I came here to bitch, lol. ETA: the flash hider is actually about 270 degrees clockwise off from being right, or 90 degrees counter (which would loosen it) |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 2:09:23 AM
[Last Edit: 11/20/2011 2:11:17 AM by bwaites]
AA isn't really set up to sell to do it yourselfers. They expect that sales are to gunsmiths or guys who build out a fair number of AR's, and order those small miscellaneous pieces from places like Brownells, etc.
This is an issue that has been brought up before, and there really isn't a good way for them to deal with it. They aren't a parts house, and don't really have a sales inventory type system. They are a manufacturer who happens to sell barrels and bolts, and a few other pieces because so many people have requested them that it was easier to sell those pieces than continually have people mad at them because they wouldn't. They are a small company, and you are as likely to get Bill Alexander on the phone when you call as you are to get anyone else. They simply don't have the system or the manpower to run a system to inventory or ship those little tiny pieces. I've never heard of the issue with the flash hider though, and I'm surprised by that. |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 8:00:02 AM
Honestly we do sort of assume that anyone who is going to build a rifle will know what they are doing and have either a shopping list to run against the suppliers or stuff on hand. We are not really a parts supplier so do not tackle things like lower parts kits or all the little pins and springs. We generally leave this to the established supply routes who are set up to handle and pack such orders.
On the crush washer for the flash hider we do have this item but as of writing I am not certain if this is a separate order item. At very least, even if it is a separate you should have been asked by the sales staff or it should be listed. Please contact us and we will get this sorted out for you, |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 10:14:07 AM
[Last Edit: 11/20/2011 10:18:27 AM by supplex]
Originally Posted By AlexanderArms:
Honestly we do sort of assume that anyone who is going to build a rifle will know what they are doing and have either a shopping list to run against the suppliers or stuff on hand. We are not really a parts supplier so do not tackle things like lower parts kits or all the little pins and springs. We generally leave this to the established supply routes who are set up to handle and pack such orders. On the crush washer for the flash hider we do have this item but as of writing I am not certain if this is a separate order item. At very least, even if it is a separate you should have been asked by the sales staff or it should be listed. Please contact us and we will get this sorted out for you, Thanks for the replies. I was not aware AA was setup that way, and I understand the business model. It means that guys like me get caught in the shuffle. I assume when I buy a gas block, a roll pin would be there, as I have equal expectation that it would come with the set screws. I did have a build list to work from, as I have done with my other builds. But I do not have a flow sheet for every manufacturer out there that details what they do or not include with their parts. It's not like I forgot to buy a charging handle... Of all the uppers I have built, I've not run into these problems. Every gas block I have bought has had one included. Also, the flash hider did come with a crush washer, but the flash hider does not time correctly. Again, never had this problem. At this point, I'm going to hit up a parts store and deal with it. As with all businesses, especially one in the firearms business, I can imagine you could start feeling exasperated by not being able to please everyone. I empathize with that. Thank you for bringing the beowolf and grendel to the platform, along with other innovations, I appreciate that very much. That being said, from a consumer standpoint, I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about AR15's. however, I do not have the history, business model, build sheet, and "quirk" worked out yet for all the manufacturers out there, I have a life apart from this hobby. I have been excited for this build for months now, and had all the other components ready to build it up for this weekend. Instead of super duper awesomeness, I'm frustrated and dissapointed. Maybe there is sand in my mangina
At least I'll know for next time, and will do what I can inform other people I know looking to do a build. ETA: both of you indicated that AA expects their customers to know what they are doing. I'd like to point out I've built numerous rifles (maybe around 15 or so in the last two years?) from the ground up, all have functioned flawlessly. Like I said before, this aint my first rodeo partner. ![]() |
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Posted: 11/20/2011 8:28:06 PM
Glad we actually sent out the crush washer with the flash hider, that does make sense because of the thread size.
Ref timing, we do not preset the crush washer, it is in the virgin state and you must either crush it to time or pre crush it on a machined stub to suit your needs. Most striving for accuracy want only little tension on this item but for heavy use it should be at maximum loading. Washers are stainless so they will not corrode but you will need a narrow wrench to fit and avoid damaging the part during installation. Sorry about the pin. We assume you need the set screws for the block which is obvious but those little pins get damaged sometimes during installation and should not be reused if removed so I suppose we assume people building rifles will hit up the supply routes and get at least a couple or more if they intend to work on guns. |
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Posted: 11/21/2011 12:57:35 PM
Originally Posted By supplex: Of all the uppers I have built, I've not run into these problems. Every gas block I have bought has had one included. Also, the flash hider did come with a crush washer, but the flash hider does not time correctly. Again, never had this problem. That being said, from a consumer standpoint, I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about AR15's. however, I do not have the history, business model, build sheet, and "quirk" worked out yet for all the manufacturers out there, I have a life apart from this hobby. I have been excited for this build for months now, and had all the other components ready to build it up for this weekend. Instead of super duper awesomeness, I'm frustrated and dissapointed. At least I'll know for next time, and will do what I can inform other people I know looking to do a build. I order parts from several manufacturers and distributors on a regular basis. I do custom work on firearms and spend a lot of time helping customers assemble their ARs or refitting customer's ARs. I buy roll pins for gas tubes and crush washers by the handful and keep them on hand. I cant remember ever buying a gas block that included a roll pin, unless it was one that came with a nonstandard (longer) pin, and that was only once. I have ordered and installed many different gas blocks from many different manufacturers. I have had some gas tubes arrive with roll pins included, but most do not. I am actually very surprised to that you say you have ordered somewhere around 15 gas blocks and all included roll pins. I have been doing this for some time and have not seen it. Could it be that some of these that you assembled were rifle, upper, or barrel kits, or used complete uppers, in which case you would receive all parts necessary? Before I start work on an AR, I have a list of every part that is needed, and don't assume that any part will be included with another part. If it is, then I end up with extra, that I will probably need for the next job.
If you order these small parts from Brownells, they will ship them out right away - often the same day, and it is much less frustrating than trying to find something at the hardware store.
The crush washer should work for you. If you crushed it too far, you may need to get a new one.
Honestly, I am surprised that you are this frustrated over a roll pin. Build a checklist, and don't assume that extra parts will be sent out by any manufacturer. You don't need to know what each manufacturer does or doesn't do, just assume that the parts that are advertised will come, and either order the other parts somewhere else, or ask, "Does this include ____ or do I need to order it separately.?" Then relax and have fun! |
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Posted: 11/21/2011 1:50:12 PM
Was able to get all worked out Over the weekend. As far as the roll pin, yes I was frustrated.because of this thread and AA replies, all was made right in my eyes. I had an atypical build experience which frustrated me, nothing wrong with that. Truly, most of the frustration stemmed from the first person I talked to on the phone. After that the cs got better and better to the point that i am a fully satisfied customer.
AA, in the end, did right by me. Was just a bit offput on the front end. Chalk it all uP to a learning experience Thanks again aa |
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Posted: 11/22/2011 3:36:44 PM
That's funny about the gas block and set screws and gas tube and roll pin. It's true that I have only built 1 upper. The gas block that I used did come with set screws, but then again it was a Larue. I used a BCM gas tube and that came with the roll pin. These places deal with home builders on a regular basis and understand that some builders don't want to order a $1 part and pay $10 shipping on it.
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Posted: 11/22/2011 4:12:12 PM
The Alexander Arms gas block did come with set screws. The OP was not clear in his wording. Most companies do not include a gas tube roll pin with a gas tube. You just order one when you order the tube.
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Posted: 12/2/2011 7:48:10 PM
Originally Posted By MakoDefense:
The Alexander Arms gas block did come with set screws. The OP was not clear in his wording. Most companies do not include a gas tube roll pin with a gas tube. You just order one when you order the tube. The gas block did come with set screws. Sorry for the confusion, I never meant to say that it didn't, just saying that I have the expectation that they would. Which they did. |
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Posted: 9/13/2012 2:20:32 PM
You say you ordered the barrel through AA. What was the lag time on that and was it a "custom order" on there site? Id like to order one but given the market i dont want a 6+ month lag on it with no warning.
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Posted: 10/30/2012 5:44:05 PM
Never got a roll pin with any gas block I've ever bought. Usually roll pins come with gas tubes.
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