User Panel
Posted: 6/19/2016 11:27:53 PM EDT
Any chance of the 416 rails getting updated? With industry going Keymod or M Lok standard I wouldn't mind having a 416 rail on the blaster with current attachment methods
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Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version.
-Geissele Customer Service |
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Quoted: Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version. -Geissele Customer Service View Quote |
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That's a mistake, as other companies are making M LOK rails for the HK... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version. -Geissele Customer Service And I bet not a lot of them are mounted on Special Mission Unit HK rifles. I don't blame Geissele. Their biggest customer for the HK416 rail are probably these units that requested the MK1. Possibly having to invest in new extrusion dies, extrusions, design time, and machining time for MLOK and Keymod for the civlian market is probably not worth the squeeze. |
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That's a mistake, as other companies are making M LOK rails for the HK... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version. -Geissele Customer Service Not producing a rail for a rifle with a tiny following is a mistake? |
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Quoted: Not producing a rail for a rifle with a tiny following is a mistake? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version. -Geissele Customer Service Not producing a rail for a rifle with a tiny following is a mistake? |
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You're right, I'm not saying it's M LOK is better than the direct mount. I already have an M LOK rail and would like to have commonality of parts. The M LOK does eliminate the "middle man" so to speak. The perfect example is the M LOK AFG, I love the thing because it doesn't need a rail section to run it. Besides Geissele already makes like 14 different rail systems, what's one more...LOL
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Is that why the all Geissele rails are M LOK now and the MK1 isn't produced anymore... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok The Mk1 isn't being produced right now due to the length of time it takes on the machines. Geissele has stated they could produce it now in a shorter amount of time. The Mk9 rail currently in development is supposed to have a profile similar to the Mk1. |
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The mark 1 is the nicest profile rail geissele has ever made. I liked it the best, but it was heavier due to having all the threaded inserts for the rail sections. That was the only drawback.
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M LOK is superior, fast forward to 13:16. You'll hear it from the man himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWlTdrnDlTw View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWlTdrnDlTw He said probably that's on the market, but mk1 isn't on the market. I thought in the past he said he liked mk3 best as well. Maybe he can answer this mystery? |
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Is that why the all Geissele rails are M LOK now and the MK1 isn't produced anymore... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok As mentioned, stopped because they were to difficult and labor intensive, now just hk416 contract orders (see the mk1, mk9 thread |
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Quoted: As mentioned, stopped because they were to difficult and labor intensive, now just hk416 contract orders (see the mk1, mk9 thread View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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Not producing a rail for a rifle with a tiny following is a mistake? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Right now the HK rails will be produced with the SMR direct thread accessory rails, just like our MK1 rails. We do not have plans to produce one in an MLOK or KEYMOD version. -Geissele Customer Service Not producing a rail for a rifle with a tiny following is a mistake? Exactly. I have handled like 3 rifles in gun shops and know of no one that owns one. Market has to be slim. |
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Did you watch the video 13:13? I give you the exact timestamp, you didn't even have to watch the whole thing. The part where Bill Geissele says, "M LOK is the stiffest and most secure method for attaching accessories to your rail." What part of that did you not understand...There are tons of rails out there that use screws that thread into a insert. Seekin precision, Larue OBR rifles, etc. Those are still on the market...While they are a good system, its not "the best", per Bill Geissele's. I think he knows more about this subject than you or I do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok As mentioned, stopped because they were to difficult and labor intensive, now just hk416 contract orders (see the mk1, mk9 thread Wrong again, 'this is (mlok) the stiffest and probably most secure on the market ' Mk1 is no longer on the market so it does not answer the question at all |
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MLOK and KEYMOD are solutions looking for a problem. IMO, their invention/creation are financially incentivized. Plus both MLOK and KEYMOD generic rail sections are anything but low profile.
Please, Geissele, just keep the HK SMR the way it is. In my view, the Geissele HK SMR and Remington's HK rail are the two best rails ever made, aethestically and functionally. I would say Geissele should figure out a way to streamline the MK1 attachment point manufacturing process and reintroduce a new MK1 revision. |
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Quoted: Wrong again, 'this is (mlok) the stiffest and probably most secure on the market ' Mk1 is no longer on the market so it does not answer the question at all View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok As mentioned, stopped because they were to difficult and labor intensive, now just hk416 contract orders (see the mk1, mk9 thread Wrong again, 'this is (mlok) the stiffest and probably most secure on the market ' Mk1 is no longer on the market so it does not answer the question at all There are 24 threaded inserts in a 14.5" HK rail, which look pressed fitted into the rail. If you run two or three rail sections that 18 threaded inserts that aren't used, which adds weight. A threaded rail insert will never beat a solid T-nut backing for strength. If you owned both rail systems and just looked at them you would come to the same conclusion on your own. |
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Quoted: MLOK and KEYMOD are solutions looking for a problem. IMO, their invention/creation are financially incentivized. Plus both MLOK and KEYMOD generic rail sections are anything but low profile. Please, Geissele, just keep the HK SMR the way it is. In my view, the Geissele HK SMR and Remington's HK rail are the two best rails ever made, aethestically and functionally. I would say Geissele should figure out a way to streamline the MK1 attachment point manufacturing process and reintroduce a new MK1 revision. View Quote |
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I'm no mechanical genius, but in thinking about it, I don't see how the backer method relying on the unit, and the aluminum rail, could be as secure as a screw right into the steel framework of the rail. Wouldn't seem to make sense. More pieces and aluminum vs less pieces and steel
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I agree with you, the HK and MK 1 rail have the nicest profiles, being slim. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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MLOK and KEYMOD are solutions looking for a problem. IMO, their invention/creation are financially incentivized. Plus both MLOK and KEYMOD generic rail sections are anything but low profile. Please, Geissele, just keep the HK SMR the way it is. In my view, the Geissele HK SMR and Remington's HK rail are the two best rails ever made, aethestically and functionally. I would say Geissele should figure out a way to streamline the MK1 attachment point manufacturing process and reintroduce a new MK1 revision. Thank you. Geissele HK SMR ought to be inducted into New York Museum of Modern Art. Posterity need to know such a beautiful yet purposeful object was ever created, unlike most of liberal modern art ( read: trash ). Quoted:
A threaded rail insert will never beat a solid T-nut backing for strength. If you owned both rail systems and just looked at them you would come to the same conclusion on your own. Introducing G-LOK - keep the SMR MK1 curved interface between the rail and the rail section but use T-nuts instead of thread inserts. I would like to claim the credit, but ALG is already making such accessory rails. Product link: http://algdefense.com/additional-emr-accessory-rail-1052.html Cheers. |
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I wonder if those ALG rail sections will work on the MK1? Obviously you wouldn't use the T-nuts, but if the spacing is right they may work.
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One can purchase additional MK1 accessory rails here: https://geissele.com/additional-accessory-rails.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if those ALG rail sections will work on the MK1? Obviously you wouldn't use the T-nuts, but if the spacing is right they may work. One can purchase additional MK1 accessory rails here: https://geissele.com/additional-accessory-rails.html I was hoping for a cheaper alternative! |
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I was hoping for a cheaper alternative! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if those ALG rail sections will work on the MK1? Obviously you wouldn't use the T-nuts, but if the spacing is right they may work. One can purchase additional MK1 accessory rails here: https://geissele.com/additional-accessory-rails.html I was hoping for a cheaper alternative! I hear ya. These stuff really add up quickly don't they! It won't fit anyway. MK1 accessory rails have screws on both sides of the slot while MLOK rails have screws inside the slot. |
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I was hoping for a cheaper alternative! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I wonder if those ALG rail sections will work on the MK1? Obviously you wouldn't use the T-nuts, but if the spacing is right they may work. One can purchase additional MK1 accessory rails here: https://geissele.com/additional-accessory-rails.html I was hoping for a cheaper alternative! How many rail sections are you using and for what? The HK416 SMR comes with three rail sections, do you really need that many more? If you cover the whole thing with rails, what's the point of using the SMR in the first place? ~Augee |
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If people bought the blem rails it didn't come with any rail section attachments, so you have to buy them separately
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I get that, and I know that. Those that know me know that I'm a consummate bargain shopper, which is the only way I'm able to have the toys I have.
You got a $438 rail for $250, it was "blemmed," fine, but you're complaining about spending $30-$90 on rail sections? Leading me again to the question, how many are you looking for, and for what? And at what point do you reckon it would have simply been better to use a standard quad rail? Nevermind that you're talking about an HK416/MR556 which you knew was going to be more expensive than any comparable part in the first place. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly curious what all the rails are for that one or two rail sections, a meal or two out, depending on how hoity-toity your tastes are. A light? A VFG? Sling mounts are built in, but I guess if you just absolutely want your sling somewhere else? Not to harp on it again, but the HK SMR is great for direct mounting things, and a lot of items can be direct mounted a lot cheaper and a lot better than by using rail sections in the first place, and most of the folks I know or have seen using them are using no more than two rail sections, mostly zero (at least actively in use, not just bolted to the rail for the hell of it), and these are for fully configured duty weapons. ~Augee |
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Was anyone complaining or did the guy just ask if the cheaper alg options worked?
What direct attach options are there for the mk1? I spent a lot of time looking but all I could find was the hand stop |
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I get that, and I know that. Those that know me know that I'm a consummate bargain shopper, which is the only way I'm able to have the toys I have. You got a $438 rail for $250, it was "blemmed," fine, but you're complaining about spending $30-$90 on rail sections? Leading me again to the question, how many are you looking for, and for what? And at what point do you reckon it would have simply been better to use a standard quad rail? Nevermind that you're talking about an HK416/MR556 which you knew was going to be more expensive than any comparable part in the first place. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm honestly curious what all the rails are for that one or two rail sections, a meal or two out, depending on how hoity-toity your tastes are. A light? A VFG? Sling mounts are built in, but I guess if you just absolutely want your sling somewhere else? Not to harp on it again, but the HK SMR is great for direct mounting things, and a lot of items can be direct mounted a lot cheaper and a lot better than by using rail sections in the first place, and most of the folks I know or have seen using them are using no more than two rail sections, mostly zero (at least actively in use, not just bolted to the rail for the hell of it), and these are for fully configured duty weapons. ~Augee View Quote (2) ALG rail sections = $40 (2) mk1 rail sections = $80 For half the price, it just made me curious. $40 could go a long ways towards other uprgrades. I'm not strapping the kitchen sink to my rifle, but a bipod and light don't direct mount. |
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For half the price, it just made me curious. $40 could go a long ways towards other uprgrades. I'm not strapping the kitchen sink to my rifle, but a bipod and light don't direct mount. View Quote I get it, and who couldn't use an extra $40? That being said, I'd bet with a little ingenuity, you could direct mount the light and bipod for even cheaper than ALG rail sections and associated rail mounts, what kind of light? To that, and the other comment, while there aren't a whole lot of accessories that are strictly speaking "designed" to direct mount to the HK416 SMR and advertised as such, my point was that with a little ingenuity, direct mounting would ultimately be sturdier, cheaper, and lower profile than stacking rails and mounts, etc. on what's supposed to be a low-profile rail. Mind you, this isn't something that's special about the HK416 SMR, most rails with slots fit this description, just takes a little outside of the box thinking. For all intents and purposes, I'm still a quad rail guy, at least for general purpose use, but then again, my HK isn't a general purpose gun, but if I'm going to have a slick rail... I'm going to have a slick rail, no need to go sticking rails back on it if I don't have to (though in interests of full disclosure, I have a three hole rail section mounted to the 6 o'clock of my HK rail with nothing mounted on it... because I'm so used to the feeling of having a rail under my hand. ) ~Augee |
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If the guy in the photo below mounted his light backward, we, as a country, would be in some pretty serious trouble. The only accessories I would want to mount on a MK1 ( or any rail ) direct are: 1. a light. 2. a VFG or a handstop. 3. sling mount. Quoted:
In the interest of full Full disclosure, if the guy in this pic mounted his light to point straight back in his face, we'd see that on your clone too LOL https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s640x640/sh0.08/e35/12534083_1115258061841354_761389482_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTE2NDkyOTQyNTkyMjg5MzU4Nw%3D%3D.2.l View Quote |
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I'm not strapping the kitchen sink to my rifle, but a bipod and light don't direct mount. View Quote For "shits and giggles" as the kids say these days, I decided to try out an experiment: Dug the Harris out of the spares box (can you tell? ) -- I was pretty sure something could be modified to work with the HK416 SMR, but didn't necessarily want to go that far, but I had an old Harris #5 adapter (the type used to mount bipods to standard, USGI polymer handguards), turns out, the little sling swivel stud that the Harris #5 uses threads directly into the rail mounting inserts on the SMR, no modification, nuthin'. Just threads right in. $12.99 at Midway, can be found cheaper elsewhere--either way, way way way cheaper than either an ALG or SMR rail section + mount. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/404111/harris-bipod-adapter-stud-swivel-5-ar-15-black I am, of course, assuming you're using a bipod that mounts to a sling stud like the Harris, not one that has a built-in rail mount, in which case, this won't help you, but it might be useful to others who might want to mount a Harris to their SMRs without adding rail sections unnecessarily. ~Augee |
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Quoted: Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok View Quote |
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Guess not, Geissele M LOK rail for the US Army's CSASS. Here's the link: MDM - CSASS Goes M-Lok - Soldier Systems Daily <a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/user/sroe76/media/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/sroe76/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg</a> View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok MDM - CSASS Goes M-Lok - Soldier Systems Daily <a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/user/sroe76/media/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/sroe76/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg</a> To clarify, I'm not weighing in on which is "better," my original response was that M LOK would be unnecessary, not that one was better than the other, though I do find it interesting that you felt the need to resurrect a dead thread in order to say "I told you so," but really the CSASS rail proves nothing. Unless you know what the customer's request was, there is no way of knowing whether it was made that way because Geissele thinks it's the best, or because the customer specifically requested M LOK. I am more than happy to admit that it could be either. The Army could have requested an M LOK handguard, in which case, Geissele would make an M LOK handguard no matter what, or the Army could have requested a handguard with no specified mounting system, and M LOK could have been the one Geissele chose. Again, I'm not arguing MK1 v. M LOK, I'm simply noting that the mere fact of existence of the CSASS handguard proves nothing, because there are any number of reasons why it was built that way. ~Augee |
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Quoted: To clarify, I'm not weighing in on which is "better," my original response was that M LOK would be unnecessary, not that one was better than the other, though I do find it interesting that you felt the need to resurrect a dead thread in order to say "I told you so," but really the CSASS rail proves nothing. Unless you know what the customer's request was, there is no way of knowing whether it was made that way because Geissele thinks it's the best, or because the customer specifically requested M LOK. I am more than happy to admit that it could be either. The Army could have requested an M LOK handguard, in which case, Geissele would make an M LOK handguard no matter what, or the Army could have requested a handguard with no specified mounting system, and M LOK could have been the one Geissele chose. Again, I'm not arguing MK1 v. M LOK, I'm simply noting that the mere fact of existence of the CSASS handguard proves nothing, because there are any number of reasons why it was built that way. ~Augee View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mk1 mounting is far superior to mlok MDM - CSASS Goes M-Lok - Soldier Systems Daily <a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/user/sroe76/media/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/sroe76/img_6559_zpsbwtoyo8x.jpg</a> To clarify, I'm not weighing in on which is "better," my original response was that M LOK would be unnecessary, not that one was better than the other, though I do find it interesting that you felt the need to resurrect a dead thread in order to say "I told you so," but really the CSASS rail proves nothing. Unless you know what the customer's request was, there is no way of knowing whether it was made that way because Geissele thinks it's the best, or because the customer specifically requested M LOK. I am more than happy to admit that it could be either. The Army could have requested an M LOK handguard, in which case, Geissele would make an M LOK handguard no matter what, or the Army could have requested a handguard with no specified mounting system, and M LOK could have been the one Geissele chose. Again, I'm not arguing MK1 v. M LOK, I'm simply noting that the mere fact of existence of the CSASS handguard proves nothing, because there are any number of reasons why it was built that way. ~Augee |
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So let me know whenever your ready to let that HK Mk1 go and I take care of that from you hahah. All jokes aside a New 416 in MLOK with quality would be welcoming this was never a debate over which is better but clearly the industry is backing this mounting solutions more than any others previously released that I think alone is enough reason to say that outweigh the MK1.
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I actually love my MK1 rail for the MR556. I also like the option of having a M LOK rail on my MR762. I just had my HK Key rail Cerakoted RAL8000 too...damn you Mr. Geissele...damn you...
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