User Panel
Quoted:
Hi all, I was hoping to get this sorted out sooner by dealing with Colt CS, but so far no luck. I bought 3 – Colt AR6721’s and had them exported. I will not name the dealer (send me an IM if you are interested), however they were on this site at some point and are no longer here (they didn’t have the greatest rep either – something I found out after I started having problems with them. Shame on me). When I looked closer at the guns, I noticed something about the carry handle sights. They didn’t look like typical colt. Now my dealings with the exporter (dealer) were not the best and I had a circumstance where I perceived that they were trying to screw me with some fees. Now I look at the carry handles and wonder if they swapped the genuine Colt CH’s for crap ones (not as a result of the fee issue as this came about when the guns got here). So I contacted Colt CS. I took photos and sent them asking if they were genuine. It has been about 2.5 weeks and nothing firm has come back yet (other than they look like CH’s and it is hard to tell the difference – I am asking the CS rep to contact one of the part’s buyers to get a better idea). So I decided to post here hoping to get a better answer or see if anyone else is getting 6721’s with these CH’s. So here is what I have: 6721 as it came in the box: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/DSCF2024.jpg Right side of 3 CH’s http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2042.jpg Left side of 3 CH’s http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2037.jpg Here are my areas of concern: Sight elevation housing is made of aluminum, not steel like I have seen on any other milspec CH I have come across http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2038-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2040-1.jpg Also, no forge codes Flashing on CH main body – maybe MIM parts? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2038.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2038-3.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2039.jpg Thumb screw is NOT staked to retain it when completely unscrewed. Matter of fact the screws will come off completely: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2038-2.jpg Thumbscrew studs are not completely flush with the CH body...crappy workmanship I suspect: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2041.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2043.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/Boltgun/COLT%20CARRY%20HANDLES/DSCF2040.jpg Anyways, any help is appreciated. TIA Mark Not Colt. Colt carry handles may not come with "C" markings, but I don't recall ever seeing one without forge marks of any kind. I've also never seen one with mold stub markings like those. I would suspect UTG / Blackthorne / ect.- extremely low costy "bargain toy brand." Even "commercial" companies like Bushmaster and DPMS use milled detachable carry handles. ~Augee |
|
You should check to see if they swapped anything else, like bolts, carriers and charging handles.
|
|
Quoted:
You should check to see if they swapped anything else like bolts, carriers and charging handles. BCG is GTG - has all the requisite markings. The only thing that was the issue was the CH. now I am in agreement with you guys, however to play the other side, now that Colt is bringing way more stuff to the civilian market, would they cheap out and source non-spec CH's? Anyone with an inside scoop? Mark |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
You should check to see if they swapped anything else like bolts, carriers and charging handles. BCG is GTG - has all the requisite markings. The only thing that was the issue was the CH. now I am in agreement with you guys, however to play the other side, now that Colt is bringing way more stuff to the civilian market, would they cheap out and source non-spec CH's? Anyone with an inside scoop? Mark I doubt it. Colt definitely subcontracts - but they expect their subcontractors to build to their specs. Any time they've tried to "go cheap" on civilian components, they've ended up getting their peckers slapped - like plastic recoil guides in some of their MT series rifles. They've generally learned *not* to pull crap like that, and their current practices seem to be towards making their civilian products and LE / mil products more similar, not less - they were one of the first to start using full weight carriers in their commercial rifles. ~Augee |
|
Augee
That is what I was thinking but you never know these days. Mark |
|
Quoted:
now I am in agreement with you guys, however to play the other side, now that Colt is bringing way more stuff to the civilian market, would they cheap out and source non-spec CH's? We had not seen any complaint from members here with their new Colts, yours is the only one we had seen recently. I had a new SP6920 carbine last year and another 6721 the year before, that I opened the factory sealed boxes and it had all the genuine features of the detachable carry handle, both of mine have Square forge markings (Brass Aluminum Forging Enterprises). However I did have one older carry handle that I bought with my 6721 upper half from an internet dealer which have a very rough forge flashing on the inside of the handle cutout, it have a splintered "A" and letter "B" forge markings and when I took it apart it was not correctly marked under the peep sight's leaf spring, so I just concluded that the dealer switched it with a non Colt component. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
now I am in agreement with you guys, however to play the other side, now that Colt is bringing way more stuff to the civilian market, would they cheap out and source non-spec CH's? We had not seen any complaint from members here with their new Colts, yours is the only one we had seen recently. I had a new SP6920 carbine last year and another 6721 the year before, that I opened the factory sealed boxes and it had all the genuine features of the detachable carry handle, both of mine have Square forge markings (Brass Aluminum Forging Enterprises). However I did have one older carry handle that I bought with my 6721 upper half from an internet dealer which have a very rough forge flashing on the inside of the handle cutout, it have a splintered "A" and letter "B" forge markings and when I took it apart it was not correctly marked under the peep sight's leaf spring, so I just concluded that the dealer switched it with a non Colt component. What is the "correct" marking under the leaf spring Mark |
|
Quoted:
What is the "correct" marking under the leaf spring Mark I was told by a member here that it should have either a letter "C" most of the time, sometimes no marking at all. The one that I have that's not genuine have a letter "H" mark, maybe High Standard or Hesse. |
|
Those don't look like genuine carry handles for a number of reasons
-Doesn't appear to be forged -No forging mark (Cardinal, Square, Keyhole etc) -Fasteners appear to be wrong -Nuts aren't supposed to come all the way off TacticalConcepts, by any chance do you have a postal scale? If you do, could you weigh one of them? Those look a lot like cheap knockoff handles, and the last one I saw at a gunshow was significantly lighter than the genuine article. |
|
postal scale no, but I have an electronic kitchen scale which is spot on...I use it to weigh my packages that are subsequently double checked at the post office...I will get back to you later with the weights
Mark |
|
each was 8.3 oz. I would suspect that a real one is going to be heavier due to steal being used in the adjustment piece.
Mark |
|
Quoted:
each was 8.3 oz. I would suspect that a real one is going to be heavier due to steal being used in the adjustment piece. Mark Okay, I just got home-I'll have one weighed in a few minutes. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
it's irritating that colt cs hasn't responded...we had a few emails go back and forth and the guy "wasn't" sure...he had to go over to the factory floor to "see". I even suggested he contact a buyer (of sub'ed out parts) or the tech guys...haven't heard back since (8 days ago).
Mark |
|
For double check purposes:
Both my Cardinal and Keyhole came in at 9.25 oz Let's see what CJan's come in at in case my scale is off |
|
I weighed five of them, and they were all between 9.25 and 9.3 ounces. My scale isn't top of the line, so I'm not surprised by the slight deviation.
ETA: Mine are Cardinal, Cerro (keyhole), and square (Kaiser?). Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
ya the steel will make up the difference. I do have to say that the CH is the only thing in question here though on these guns.
Mark |
|
I have seen my fair share of Colt product, and if those pictures are accurate, those are NOT Colt carry handles... Who are you talking to at the factory? |
|
I have seen my fair share of Colt product, and if those pictures are accurate, those are NOT Colt carry handles... Who are you talking to at the factory? |
|
When I called the CS dept. It was the fellow that answered the phone. I am not prepared to post his name here, but if need be I can send it via IM.
Mark |
|
Mark, are there any restrictions to your knowledge (like ITAR?) that would legally prevent me from sending a carry handle to you?
I'd like for you to have one of mine, so you can at least have one Colt that is "correct" until you get this sorted out. If you want one just send me an IM or an e-mail, and it's yours |
|
I appreciate it, really that is a kind gesture. But I will sort this out with the exporter once I get confirmation with colt. Kinda hard to go on a hunch and feedback from an internet forum (even though you guys are right).
Mark |
|
Quoted:
I appreciate it, really that is a kind gesture. But I will sort this out with the exporter once I get confirmation with colt. Kinda hard to go on a hunch and feedback from an internet forum (even though you guys are right). Mark If you want detailed photos of the real thing, please say so Once you compare them, you will see that those aren't right quite easily. It will take me a few minutes to dig out my digital SLR, but it will give you some ammo to fight with. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
save your time...the net has a bundle. My biggest concern is to eliminate the variable of Colt possibly cheaping out on their sporting line and not using their usual components. Although I don't necessarily believe that to be the case I need to eliminate the variable non the less.
Mark |
|
Quoted:
save your time...the net has a bundle. My biggest concern is to eliminate the variable of Colt possibly cheaping out on their sporting line and not using their usual components. Although I don't necessarily believe that to be the case I need to eliminate the variable non the less. Mark Heh, too late I just snapped some pics and are uploading them. If nothing else, they will allow newcomers to know the difference between the two-so they know what to spot. Also, check your e-mail...in about four minutes when I'm done writing it |
|
OP best of luck in getting this sorted out. Thanks for answering my IM. I've heard varying reports about the dealer your carbines came from. I was just shopping their site last night! Thanks for the warning, they're on my blacklist now.
|
|
well I did some more searching today. I think I found the same style sight on midway's sight - definitely made in china as one review put it. The tell tale sign is the circular flash marks on the side of the body - similer to the ones on the CH's I have. See here:
midway chinese CH I decided to forget about waiting for a response from Colt. I have emailed the exporter...now to see what he says. Mark YIKES - ETA - this company is charging 199 euros for this piece of junk http://www.gun-parts-germany.de/product_info.php?language=en&info=p485_Hochwertiges-Carry-Handle-von-Weaver.html |
|
The owner go back to me and advised this is how they came from Colt.
ETA: of course that's how they came....why would he say otherwise Mark |
|
My friend, those are, without a shadow of a doubt, ChiCom UTG carry handles. I have one,and it is %100 the same, down to the sprue injection points on the cast body. The exporter is lying to you. I have a good idea who it is, but I would like to know for sure, as im sure everyone else would as well. If the asshole will screw over a Canadian shooter who he knows will have a hard time effecting recourse for a few bucks, it wont be very long till he gets really greedy and is willing to screw everyone, US or Canadian, for a few dollars.
|
|
Quoted:
The owner go back to me and advised this is how they came from Colt. ETA: of course that's how they came....why would he say otherwise Mark Id be talking to my bank/ CC company about disputing the charges. |
|
neg on reversing charges. these were paid via money wire transfer.
here is the response from the Colt CS rep - communication has been spotty and not very confidence inspiring - this is another in the chain: I went down and looked at some in the Defense department and they look very similar. so I responded with the following: So can you confirm that Colt is using chinese made parts on their civilian guns? This is a departure from the norm then for you guys. Does anyone else have a contact at Colt that they can IM me the info for? This CS rep "sounds" new......doesn't seem to be getting the nuances I am clearly stating. Mark |
|
this is totally fucked
ask the CS guy to send you more pics from the factory. wait! The CH looks like the one on a .22LR crap from UMAREX!!!! http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9211396 http://www.armslist.com/posts/16271/columbus-ohio-rifles-for-sale––colt-m4-carbine––22-tactical-rimfire-walther |
|
I sent the following after his email back to me:
can you please refer to the following document attached and maybe consider bringing it to a supervisors attention. I need this sorted out once and for all. This is the document that I sent: COLT DETACHABLE CARRY HANDLE ISSUES
THE FOLLOWING IS AN OUTLINE OF 3 DETACHABLE CARRY HANDLES THAT WERE RECEIVED ON 3 COLT AR6721’S. THESE ARE NOT TYPICAL CARRY HANDLES THAT COME FROM COLT. I AM LEFT WITH ONE OF THREE CONCLUSIONS: - THE DEALER I BOUGHT THEM FROM SWAPPED THE ORIGINALS OUT FOR UTG/LEAPERS/WEAVER BRAND CARRY HANDLES SIMILER TO WHAT IS FOUND HERE: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/576435/weaver-detachable-carry-handle-with-a2-sight-ar-15-aluminum-matte - THE DEALER OBTAINED THE RIFLES FROM A SUPPLIER THAT SWAPPED THEM OUT. - COLT MANFACTURING IS USING THESE AS OEM PARTS REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY CAME ABOUT, THEY ARE LIKELY MADE IN CHINA AND NOT USUAL MILSPEC COLT CARRY HANDLES. HERE IS WHY: THIS HOUSING IS MADE OF ANODIZED ALUMINUM. MILSPEC COLTS USUALLY HAVE STEEL THAT IS PHOSPHATED. THIS NUT CAN COMPLETELY COME OFF THE CARRY HANDLE – THERE IS NO STAKING TO RETAIN THE NUT. TYPICAL MILSPEC COLT HAS STAKING WHICH IS DESIGNED TO HOLD THE TENSIONING NUT ON THE HANDLE SO THAT IT IS NOT LOST IN FIELD CONDITIONS. THERE ARE SPRUE/FLASHING MARKS FROM CASTING THE CARRY HANDLE. ONCE AGAIN THIS IS NOT TYPICAL MILSPEC COLT AS THEY ARE USUALLY FORGED. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT THERE ARE NO FORGE MARKS/CODES ON THE LEFT SIDE. THE THREADED STUD THAT IS USED TO RETAIN THE CARRY HANDLE IS NOT FULLY SEATED – IN ALL CASES OF THE THREE CARRY HANDLES. NOT TYPICAL OF MILSPEC COLT. FURTHER TO THIS THERE ARE NO FORGE CODES/MARKS. He has responded by telling me that he will forward it on. Mark |
|
Here is the reply I got from the Colt CS guy.
Mark, Good Afternoon, Just got back from the factory and these carry handles do notlook like ours. They are missing proof stamps and are other things that do notshow anywhere else. Looks like a punch mark on the left side right in front of therear sight that we do not have on ours. Wow - talk about a wishy washy answer...oh well. I will forward this onto the dealer and see what happens. Not confident that they will entertain me though. Mark |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.