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 Hendricks5150
Jaffa!! Kree!!
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2009  FL, USA
 Posts: 12477 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 5/11/2010 9:52:36 PM
[Last Edit: 5/11/2010 10:21:36 PM by Hendricks5150]
Tom - Please edit this post and add anything you need, corrections, or new content.
From the archives. Semi-Auto guide: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=168048 Originally posted by badazzar15:
This is a Dedicated
thread for tuning the ST-22 Dedicated upper and ST-22 Drop-in
Conversion. Both bolts are the same except for the chamber adapter.
Tuning is accomplished the same way for either of them. This thread is
for Semi-Auto ONLY. Post your Cycling Issues or Tuning Questions here. Ill answer them and walk you through the process step by step. If you have any Issues read and try the things below before posting here. Don't fix it if its NOT broken!! If it runs good leave it alone! Its a 22LR so don't expect it to be as reliable as your SHTF carbine! Ill start off by saying keep your ST-22 clean! I know its fun but your ST-22 gets dirty fast and it doesn't take long to run through 550rds! I would recommend cleaning it Every 500-1000rds. The ST-22 requires Very little if any lube at all. 1 drop of oil on each rail is plenty it goes a long way. Soaking it down with lube will only make things worse. Just remember Oil+22LR=Gunk/Mud. Make sure the bolt is Not contacting your bolt catch or feed lips on your magazine. Make sure your hammer isn't dragging on the bolt. The DPMS (De-milled M16) or anything without a notched hammer face function the best with the ST-22. Make sure your running good plated ammo. There is a lot of bad 22 ammo out there and it varies from Lot/Batch to Lot/Batch. If your gun is not running try a different Lot/Batch of ammo and see if the problem goes away. If it just stop shooting and cycling properly for no reason try different ammo. Make sure your charging handle isn't stopping your bolt from closing all the way. Sometimes charging handles have a stiff latch. If your ST-22 has feeding issues- -Insert a round by hand and make sure your ammo is cambering freely. -Make sure your not running over sized or out of spec ammo like the Remington stuff. -Waxy ammo will also cause feeding issues. -Make sure there isn't a burr on the chamber edge. The edge of your chamber should have a slight bevel on it to assist in feeding. -Make sure the face of your bolt and chamber is clean. -Make sure your recoil spring isn't to short. -Make sure your magazine is in good working order. -Make sure your magazine is not sitting to low in the magwell. -Make sure the charging handle isn't to hard to latch. -Make sure your firing pin isn't stuck forward. -In most cases polishing the chamber will make feeding more reliable! If your ST-22 has cycling issues- -The most common issue is where the spent casing is getting stuck upward between the bolt and charging handle or sideways between the bolt and chamber. Sometimes it will fire the first round, chamber the second round and when you pull the trigger nothing happens. What's happening is the bolt isn't going back far enough or fast enough to eject properly or re-cock the hammer back. -The shorter the barrel the harder its going to be to tune it. Shorter barrels (Anything 12" or shorter) lacks back pressure which blow back systems like the ST-22 need to function. Suppressors are your friend on short barrel setups. Sub-Sonic or weak ammo is going to be a challenge! -Make sure your ammo is Not underpowered before tuning anything! -Its always a good idea to have a spare recoil spring before you start cutting anything! Remember Measure twice, cut once. -Your recoil spring is probably a little too stiff for your application, Start by trimming 1/4" (or 3 coils) off of your recoil spring. -Shoot it again and see if the problem goes away. If not trim another 1/4" (or 3 coils). and so on.. -You do Not want to trim the recoil spring any shorter than 7.25" OAL we usually ship them around 8 3/8"-9" long. If your down to 7.25" and it still has issues then something else is wrong please contact me for further assistance. -Also check to make sure your hammer spring isn't to stiff. Sense your bolt has to cock the hammer back with each round that's fired your hammer spring acts as if its a recoil spring or recoil system. -In some cases its a good idea to run a lighter hammer spring to keep the recoil spring stiffer. The longer you can run your recoil spring the better. I recommend the springs from JP Enterprise. -Make sure your Hammer pin isn't broken! If your ST-22 has light primer strikes- -Check your ammo. -Make sure your hammer spring is not to light. Some reduce power hammer springs are to light. I would not go any lighter than a 3.5lb-4lb spring like the one sold from JP Enterprise -Make sure your firing pin is moving freely and not stuck. If it feels like its hard to move you may want to consider removing it to clean the firing pin and the firing pin cavity in the bolt. -Make sure your firing pin isn't broken. The ST-22 is tough but it can happen. -The ST-22 Doesn't require a buffer and spring but it may cure lite primer strike issues. If your ST-22 shoots more than 1 round at a time- -Do NOT continue to shoot it! If it fires more than 1 round at a time its considered an Illegal machine gun! What's happening is your bolt is not going back far enough to cock the hammer, the hammer is following the bolt back home and slam firing. -Your recoil spring may be to stiff. -Your ammo may be to weak. -Your hammer spring may be to stiff, Not all Mil-Spec hammer springs are the same. -Make sure your Hammer pin isn't broken! If your ST-22 fires out of battery- -Make sure your bolt is closing all the way especially on the first round when it has the resistance of the charging handle latch. -Make sure your chamber is clean. -Insert a round by hand and make sure your ammo is cambering all the way. Some over sized rounds don't chamber all the way. -Make sure your recoil spring is not to weak or wore out. Ill Finish off by saying The recoil spring, ammo, and keeping it clean are 3 HUGE deciding factors if your ST-22 is going to run properly or not. That's all for now. If I can think of anything else Ill add to it. Hopefully you guys find this information useful. -Tom Full-Auto guide: Hard to read. I'll pull what info that I can. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=165786&page=1 Questions in BLUE Answers from badazzar15 in BOLD Ive tuned a TON of these things and this seems to be the best "drop-in" tune up. Try this.. Definitly use the AAC Pilot. Back pressure is your friend on a barrel that short. Use the Anti-Bounce weight and ball and spring. Full length Lake side spring. If you need one let me know. CCI Mini mags. The best most consistent ammo Ive found for FA, Federal has become complete crap. Installation of the spring and anti-bounce ball: The Anti-Bounce ball and spring goes between the bolt and the rail. To Install it you would break the bolt down the same way you would to clean it. Start by removing the chamber adapter "The piece with the Feed ramp". Then slide the bolt off of the rail, when the bolt is off the rail you will notice a small hole towards the rear of the bolt on the ejection port side "the hole is located in the rail slot of the bolt". Place the spring in first and then the ball. Carefully slide the bolt back on the rail "be careful not to loose the ball+spring or bend the rail", Then reinstall the chamber adapter and your Anti-bounce is now installed. Does the Spike's kit work with RDIAS?: They do work with a RDIAS but sometimes you have to tune the auto-trip for proper sear timing. Some of the sub-sonic stuff works while some doesn't. Each one likes different stuff so its a trial and error thing. How do you tune auto-trip for proper sear timing?: You have to remove material from the auto trip (READ like .020-.030 MAX) from the side that contacts your auto sear in the lower. But first you need to make sure your issue is either bolt bounce or sear timing. That's the hard part. Most of the time its weak ammo or bolt bounce. Do you have a RR? or RDIAS? Personally I like RDIAS's. Have you guys found it necessary to ream the bore on your uppers for reliable FA shooting? We chamber them the same for semi and full auto. So what is the difference in the standard springs and the Lakeside spring? The Lakeside is stiffer and helps with bolt bounce. |
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badazzar15
Spike's Tactical
Industry Partner
Joined: May 2006 FL, USA
Posts: 18860 Feedback: 100% (309) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/12/2010 8:50:43 PM
Thank you!
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Hendricks5150
Jaffa!! Kree!!
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2009 FL, USA
Posts: 12484 Feedback: 0% (0) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/12/2010 10:32:06 PM
No problem man, any time
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Posted: 7/5/2010 8:25:09 PM
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 8:28:14 PM by Islandboy671]
Ooops! Double post.
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Posted: 7/5/2010 8:26:55 PM
[Last Edit: 7/5/2010 8:38:33 PM by Islandboy671]
I did some mods to my ST-22 with Lothar Walther barrel (heavy profile, 1" under the handguards). I did the mods so I will be able to shoot standard velocity and sub-sonic ammo without any FTEs (failures to eject). First of all, I don't have any problems with high velocity ammo. I can go through 200+ rounds with no FTEs. The only problems I had was shooting standard velocity ammo...especially Lapua 40gr SK Standard Plus which is the most accurate out of my ST-22. That waxed ammo chokes up my ST-22 in regards to FTEs. I would get about 3 to 6 FTEs in each 15rd mag.
On my range session (July 4th  ), I shot a total of 325 rounds of assorted ammo.
* 125 rounds 40gr Lapua SK Standard Plus (The waxy stuff) * 55 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity 40gr. * 45 rounds of Aguila 40gr Sub Sonic. * 50 rounds of Aguila 38gr Sub Sonic hollow points * 50 rounds Aguila Super Extra 38gr. Out of the 125 rounds of Lapua SK Standard Plus, I only had 3 FTEs. With the CCI Standard Velocity, I only 1 FTE. All other ammo was problem free...even the subsonics .
Here are the mods I did. I bought an extra DPMS hammer from PK Firearms and cut the back tail off to reduce weight. I then grinded down and painted just the back side of the hammer. 
I also installed some new JP Enterprise 3.5 pound Light Hammer, Trigger, Disconnector Springs. With the light hammer spring and the extra mass of the hammer cut off, I get no light primer strikes. The light hammer spring also helps the bolt move towards the rear with less resistance. 
And a few pics of my ST-22. 
5 round group at 50 yards with Lapua SK Standard Plus 40gr.  |
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toolboxluis00100
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2010 FL, USA
Posts: 1341 Feedback: 100% (1) Link To This Post |
Posted: 7/5/2010 9:51:49 PM
Originally Posted By Islandboy671:
I did some mods to my ST-22 with Lothar Walther barrel (heavy profile, 1" under the handguards). I did the mods so I will be able to shoot standard velocity and sub-sonic ammo without any FTEs (failures to eject). First of all, I don't have any problems with high velocity ammo. I can go through 200+ rounds with no FTEs. The only problems I had was shooting standard velocity ammo...especially Lapua 40gr SK Standard Plus which is the most accurate out of my ST-22. That waxed ammo chokes up my ST-22 in regards to FTEs. I would get about 3 to 6 FTEs in each 15rd mag. On my range session (July 4th ), I shot a total of 325 rounds of assorted ammo.
* 125 rounds 40gr Lapua SK Standard Plus (The waxy stuff) * 55 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity 40gr. * 45 rounds of Aguila 40gr Sub Sonic. * 50 rounds of Aguila 38gr Sub Sonic hollow points * 50 rounds Aguila Super Extra 38gr. Out of the 125 rounds of Lapua SK Standard Plus, I only had 3 FTEs. With the CCI Standard Velocity, I only 1 FTE. All other ammo was problem free...even the subsonics .
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00095.jpg Here are the mods I did. I bought an extra DPMS hammer from PK Firearms and cut the back tail off to reduce weight. I then grinded down and painted just the back side of the hammer. http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00097.jpg http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00075.jpg http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00079.jpg I also installed some new JP Enterprise 3.5 pound Light Hammer, Trigger, Disconnector Springs. With the light hammer spring and the extra mass of the hammer cut off, I get no light primer strikes. The light hammer spring also helps the bolt move towards the rear with less resistance. http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00080.jpg And a few pics of my ST-22. http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00004.jpg http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC00009.jpg 5 round group at 50 yards with Lapua SK Standard Plus 40gr. http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/buddah671/DSC000202-1.jpg very cool mode |
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Posted: 9/30/2011 9:08:37 AM
Awsome write up for sure !! Thanks Im sent on Full length Lake side spring. |
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costanza
Member
Team Member
Joined: Feb 2008 VA, USA
Posts: 2854 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/28/2012 9:09:24 PM
This is where I ask a dumb question in relation to
If your ST-22 has cycling issues-
-The most common issue is where the spent casing is getting stuck upward between the bolt and charging handle or sideways between the bolt and chamber. Sometimes it will fire the first round, chamber the second round and when you pull the trigger nothing happens. What's happening is the bolt isn't going back far enough or fast enough to eject properly or re-cock the hammer back. -The shorter the barrel the harder its going to be to tune it. Shorter barrels (Anything 12" or shorter) lacks back pressure which blow back systems like the ST-22 need to function. Suppressors are your friend on short barrel setups. Sub-Sonic or weak ammo is going to be a challenge! -Make sure your ammo is Not underpowered before tuning anything! -Its always a good idea to have a spare recoil spring before you start cutting anything! Remember Measure twice, cut once. -Your recoil spring is probably a little too stiff for your application, Start by trimming 1/4" (or 3 coils) off of your recoil spring. -Shoot it again and see if the problem goes away. If not trim another 1/4" (or 3 coils). and so on.. -You do Not want to trim the recoil spring any shorter than 7.25" OAL we usually ship them around 8 3/8"-9" long. If your down to 7.25" and it still has issues then something else is wrong please contact me for further assistance. -Also check to make sure your hammer spring isn't to stiff. Sense your bolt has to cock the hammer back with each round that's fired your hammer spring acts as if its a recoil spring or recoil system. -In some cases its a good idea to run a lighter hammer spring to keep the recoil spring stiffer. The longer you can run your recoil spring the better. I recommend the springs from JP Enterprise. -Make sure your Hammer pin isn't broken! How do I remove the recoil spring so that I may trim it? Does anybody have pictures of this process? Thanks. |
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