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TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 4/29/2010 8:40:33 PM
Since no one from this thread thread has bothered to ask, and I'm curious:

Will the KAOS stock mounted system work with rail-mounted M203s like the LMT rail mounted launcher?
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
badazzar15
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Posted: 4/30/2010 12:35:15 AM
It should work fine, But Ill need to try it to know for sure.
Tom Miller (CEO)
website: www.spikestactical.com
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USMC_2674
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Posted: 4/30/2010 12:26:45 PM
When do you think we'll have time to try that out?

Do you have an LMT M203 9" railmount to try it with?

If not, I do and am happy to check. (even provide pictures, video, etc).

Do you want me to order one and try it? :)

Let me know.

Kent

Originally Posted By badazzar15:
It should work fine, But Ill need to try it to know for sure.


TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 4/30/2010 4:36:31 PM
I'd say order one and try it. $200. If you do put the pics and videos up here, I'd be interested in seeing how it works. If it does Spike's now has a new market to sell to.
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
USMC_2674
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Posted: 4/30/2010 6:04:19 PM
[Last Edit: 4/30/2010 6:24:46 PM by USMC_2674]
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I'd say order one and try it. $200. If you do put the pics and videos up here, I'd be interested in seeing how it works. If it does Spike's now has a new market to sell to.


Maybe I'll wait a day or two to see if Tom says anything, if not, I'll order one and hope I don't lose $200 (or shipping costs) in the process. :)

Thanks Joe!

Edit:

Maybe I won't wait... order sent in via website... confirmation received.
badazzar15
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Posted: 5/1/2010 3:56:07 AM
Originally Posted By USMC_2674:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I'd say order one and try it. $200. If you do put the pics and videos up here, I'd be interested in seeing how it works. If it does Spike's now has a new market to sell to.


Maybe I'll wait a day or two to see if Tom says anything, if not, I'll order one and hope I don't lose $200 (or shipping costs) in the process. :)

Thanks Joe!

Edit:

Maybe I won't wait... order sent in via website... confirmation received.


Awesome man, if it doesn't work I'll give you a refund. If something needs to be changed just let me know and I'll make an LMT version.

Tom Miller (CEO)
website: www.spikestactical.com
email: sales@spikestactical.com
phone: 407.928.2666
fax: 866-283-2215
TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 5/1/2010 11:00:18 AM
I decided to look around for stand alone systems, and you're getting a steal at $200

$678

I can't find the Knights standalone on anywhere other than autoweapons, and I guarantee it's a fortune. And these are both for the standard version.
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
USMC_2674
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Posted: 5/1/2010 10:51:52 PM
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
Originally Posted By USMC_2674:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I'd say order one and try it. $200. If you do put the pics and videos up here, I'd be interested in seeing how it works. If it does Spike's now has a new market to sell to.


Maybe I'll wait a day or two to see if Tom says anything, if not, I'll order one and hope I don't lose $200 (or shipping costs) in the process. :)

Thanks Joe!

Edit:

Maybe I won't wait... order sent in via website... confirmation received.


Awesome man, if it doesn't work I'll give you a refund. If something needs to be changed just let me know and I'll make an LMT version.



It is things like this that make me see why you have such a huge following Tom... I've only ever ordered lower receivers from your company, but I think that will start changing with the dedication to bringing consumers things they want.

Most companies won't think about making things to fit what the customer needs or wants... they simply expect that their product is either good enough or the customer can go somewhere else.

I'll let you know how it works.

If it mounts up, should I be concerned about the stress it will put on the rails when firing? how much more force is applied from 37mm rounds when compared to 40mm?

Kent
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Posted: 5/1/2010 10:55:37 PM
[Last Edit: 5/1/2010 10:58:23 PM by USMC_2674]
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
I decided to look around for stand alone systems, and you're getting a steal at $200

$678

I can't find the Knights standalone on anywhere other than autoweapons, and I guarantee it's a fortune. And these are both for the standard version.


The Knights standalone is $1500 last I checked a few years ago... but more important than the price is the fact that they do not build a rail mounted version.

The KAOS unit looks good, hopefully it will fit. I'll still need a way to mount my reflex site as seen here at the bottom middle of page 2.

http://www.specops.com.pl/vortal/download/files/M203_Masterkey.pdf

It works great when mounted on the rail of the AR that I mount the M203 to, and would like to keep it on the standalone too :)

Perhaps some kind of piece / riser that mounts to the top rail, providing side rails and a top rail? Then it could be placed anywhere along the top rail of the KAOS unit, and allow for proper sighting in of the reflex sight by allowing it to be moved back or forth.

Or perhaps Tom will make a full rail version, that has the top and bottom rail like the current KAOS has, but also has the two side rails for mounting the reflex sight along with flashlights, lasers, etc for direct fire capabilities.

Semper Fidelis,

Kent
TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 5/2/2010 12:19:31 AM
Is that the same reflex sight you have?

You could try this:
90 Degree Side Rail
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
USMC_2674
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Posted: 5/2/2010 10:31:15 AM
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Is that the same reflex sight you have?

You could try this:
90 Degree Side Rail


Yep, that is the one I have.

I'll wait until I see the KAOS unit, but if I think that will fit, I'll order that side rail to try it. My concern is that it would hang down on the side of the launcher tube and get in the way when loading it.

Thanks Joe! You've been a bunch of help :)
TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 5/2/2010 11:27:40 AM
No problem man. Just expanding my knowledge base as well. Working with other people on their unique problems help me to learn more about firearms technology.

I think you may be right about that 90 degree mount. You could try it on top of a riser.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=379405

There are also risers with 3 rails at the 12, 9, and 3 which might work.
Something like this:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=5593/Product/AR_15_M16_FLAT_TOP_RISER
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 5/8/2010 6:20:25 PM
Any updates?
Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
USMC_2674
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Posted: 5/10/2010 3:27:47 PM
UPS dropped off the platform to my wife about 5 minutes ago. I'll mount it up tonight and see how it fits, and try to sneak off to the farm tomorrow during lunch to fire it (providing it locks up tight).

I'll post pictures / video, etc.

Kent

Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Any updates?


TCBA_Joe
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Posted: 5/10/2010 7:31:39 PM
Awesome, thanks for keeping me in the loop.

Please, call me Joe

There is definitely something perverse about two men who carry guns 24/7 being so happy that others are giving theirs up. -happycynic
USMC_2674
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Posted: 5/11/2010 10:45:01 AM
[Last Edit: 5/11/2010 1:10:23 PM by USMC_2674]
Ok, so here we go.

Got it yesterday, looked great. Boxed well. Wrapped Tight.

Quality of the unit looks great!

Here is a picture of the M203 mounted on my LMT 12" piston gun.





For the record, it is a LMT 9" Rail Mounted M203 direct from the factory. It fits perfectly on every rail I have tried including LMT MRP, DD, Knights and Larue.

And here are a series of photos showing the problem of mounting the LMT M203 to the KAOS unit:



It won't line up... one of the 3 male rail "guides" is off by a few hundreds of an inch to fit onto the rail. When you compare the KAOS unit to the LMT, KAC, DD, and Larue rails it appears to be off a few hundreds (maybe even a 20th of an inch by the time it reach the end) of an inch by the time you reach the end of the rail. Which is enough to cause the third guide to not be able to fit in. In many cases it is off enough so that the 2nd guide won't fit in (but it does fit in some cases)

Here is a series of pictures showing that it will lock up if I only use 2 of the 3 guides on the LMT by mounting it forward...





The above two it lines up tight...



Here, one rail back, it won't line up...



And here, it suddenly lines up again. Those two rail positions are the only positions it will line up with two guides. I can line it up with the forward most rail guide by itself if I reverse the unit... but it won't do the forward and the middle. But I can do the middle and the back guides.

Tom, let me know your opinion on what you'd like to see me do:

1) I grind the one female slot of your rail down a few hundreds of an inch to accommodate the front rail guide and it should fit snugly. This solves my problem, and I can use it... but doesn't solve the problem for the next guy. I am not 100% sure it is the KAOS units fault... it could be the LMT M203 that is out of spec, but it does fit on four other companies rails (KAC, LMT, DD, Larue). Maybe your unit is just tighter than most and thus has no wiggle room? I can do this while waiting for #4 :)

2) I send the KAOS unit and my M203 to you for gunsmithing services so you can figure it out. That is assuming that you don't have a railmounted M203 from LMT to try it out with.

3) I buy another KAOS unit and see if it fits better... I don't think this will end up working, as when I line your KAOS unit up with the LMT or Larue rails, I can see that by the end of the rail, we're off a fairly significant portion... maybe a 20th of an inch by the end of the rails.

4) I do #1 until you make the perfect LMT stand alone mount... which I understand may take a few months / year. Meanwhile, I'll make up some HD videos of using the unit, etc to help market it for you.

I really want to get your KAOS unit working with this LMT M203... so I don't want to just get a refund :)

The unit looks really well made and is almost exactly what I want.

If the KAOS had two side rails, a bottom and a top rail instead of just the top rail it would be exactly what I want :)

So, if you're going to make an LMT version like you stated earlier, I'd love to see it with four sided rail system for mounting KAC reflex sights, IR lasers, flashlights, etc on as well as the top and bottom rails for the launcher and top mounted optics. This is very important IMO if you want to market your unit as the best possible to others with LMT rail mounted M203's who want to use it with the KAC reflex site.


CleverNickname
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Posted: 5/11/2010 3:20:50 PM
If they're going to make an M203-specific version, it looks like the location of the grip on relation to the trigger needs to be adjusted too.
USMC_2674
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Posted: 5/11/2010 3:39:35 PM
[Last Edit: 5/11/2010 4:02:04 PM by USMC_2674]
Originally Posted By CleverNickname:
If they're going to make an M203-specific version, it looks like the location of the grip on relation to the trigger needs to be adjusted too.


Agreed, but it is easily useable as it is right now... the grip is about the same distance as the LMT MRP rail when mounted on LMT's own M16.