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Posted: 7/31/2012 5:00:39 AM
Was just checking around the ACR forum and found this.Looks like it was made by one of the members on there.
http://www.acrforum.com/forum/showthread.php/2608-All-Metal-ACR-Lower-Complete |
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Posted: 7/31/2012 5:24:41 AM
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Posted: 7/31/2012 7:29:39 AM
Actually it looks like something that might have been stolen out of the foundry that makes the part for Remington.
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Posted: 7/31/2012 8:09:54 AM
Originally Posted By VLODPG: Actually it looks like something that might have been stolen out of the foundry that makes the part for Remington. The Remington one and this one are completely different. This one is AL and the Rem one is Magnesium. Differences in the look. The Remington one uses fire control parts through the lower, this one, like the polymer one use a fire control box like the HK. The guy who originally made it took pics along the way. http://www.acrforum.com/forum/showthread.php/2558-All-metal-ACR-Lower/page5?highlight=metal |
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Posted: 7/31/2012 10:41:22 PM
Originally Posted By viper5243:
Originally Posted By VLODPG:
Actually it looks like something that might have been stolen out of the foundry that makes the part for Remington. The Remington one and this one are completely different. This one is AL and the Rem one is Magnesium. Differences in the look. The Remington one uses fire control parts through the lower, this one, like the polymer one use a fire control box like the HK. The guy who originally made it took pics along the way. http://www.acrforum.com/forum/showthread.php/2558-All-metal-ACR-Lower/page5?highlight=metal Interesting, too bad the forum won't allow non members view the pictures. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 4:36:22 AM
Originally Posted By VLODPG: Originally Posted By viper5243: Originally Posted By VLODPG: Actually it looks like something that might have been stolen out of the foundry that makes the part for Remington. The Remington one and this one are completely different. This one is AL and the Rem one is Magnesium. Differences in the look. The Remington one uses fire control parts through the lower, this one, like the polymer one use a fire control box like the HK. The guy who originally made it took pics along the way. http://www.acrforum.com/forum/showthread.php/2558-All-metal-ACR-Lower/page5?highlight=metal Interesting, too bad the forum won't allow non members view the pictures. There is a ton of pics, im not posting them all. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 9:41:19 PM
[Last Edit: 8/1/2012 9:42:06 PM by bigdog200399]
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Posted: 8/1/2012 10:05:55 PM
that is just to cool
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Posted: 8/4/2012 1:07:29 AM
It's on gunbroker for an absurd $2500. Ok man, I get you put a lot of time in it, but no one's that desperate.
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Posted: 8/4/2012 3:54:34 AM
[Last Edit: 8/4/2012 3:55:59 AM by bfelts1ak]
Buy it now @ $2500 for the "desperate". You tell me what it is worth to prototype it with 264 hours at $20 an hour. Also, what is the value on having to buy a complete ACR just for the spare lower parts? Around $1800 for a basic? So whats the value on a one of a kind lower with the guts already in it so you don't need to gut your lower? What is the cost of R&D to do something similar so that you can start making billet ACR lowers?
Absurd is only to the guy who is looking for a prexisting product and hasn't had to develop something on thier own. This lower is worth whatever someone is willing to pay, however it is my opinion someone like myself can see the value in what it takes to create something new. |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 6:04:42 PM
Whoa, whoa... Back that up a bit. Does buying a complete rifle justify selling a lower, just because it has the internals? Prototyping?? It's a modfied copy and while the milling process would've of justified the time spent on the lower, no one comissioned him to do it. A CNC could reproduce the same thing in a fraction of the time, with less labor involved. You're right though, it is worth as much as someone would want to pay for it. My personal opinion is still what it is, an absurb price for what it is.
I've build my own receivers out of bar stock and can appreciate the time spent, but not the cost. |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 9:12:30 PM
I will not back up at all on this issue. and yes the cost of a complete rifle does get computed into this. Ryan of APWR did not use a CNC machine to make it so the time is well worth it. Where are your Billet ACR lowers? Are they complete with internals? have part numbers from BM to order internals? Yes, PROTOTYPING. Call it what it is. It is a one off made by hand that is the base for more to be made. The ACR is not the AR-15. So relating pricing to something that has been around for 40+ years with everyone and thier brother making them is Apples to Oranges. That is like trying to compare Billet M1A Recievers which start at $1000, to a Plum Crazy Ar-15 lower with can be had for 1/10 of that cost. Can you tell me why the M1A Recievers are so much more? The answer is they are made in less quantities and are in less dmeand driving up the over production cost and end user cost. Same relative theory applies here to this lower. Call it absurd if ya like, but your just being a Negative Nancy.
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Posted: 8/5/2012 10:07:18 PM
Originally Posted By bfelts1ak:
I will not back up at all on this issue. and yes the cost of a complete rifle does get computed into this. Ryan of APWR did not use a CNC machine to make it so the time is well worth it. Where are your Billet ACR lowers? Are they complete with internals? have part numbers from BM to order internals? Yes, PROTOTYPING. Call it what it is. It is a one off made by hand that is the base for more to be made. The ACR is not the AR-15. So relating pricing to something that has been around for 40+ years with everyone and thier brother making them is Apples to Oranges. That is like trying to compare Billet M1A Recievers which start at $1000, to a Plum Crazy Ar-15 lower with can be had for 1/10 of that cost. Can you tell me why the M1A Recievers are so much more? The answer is they are made in less quantities and are in less dmeand driving up the over production cost and end user cost. Same relative theory applies here to this lower. Call it absurd if ya like, but your just being a Negative Nancy. There is a reason why homeowners should hire a real estate agent to sell their house for them. Its usually because the owner thinks its worth waaaay more than it actually is. |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 10:54:40 PM
Originally Posted By bfelts1ak: I will not back up at all on this issue. and yes the cost of a complete rifle does get computed into this. Ryan of APWR did not use a CNC machine to make it so the time is well worth it. Where are your Billet ACR lowers? Are they complete with internals? have part numbers from BM to order internals? Yes, PROTOTYPING. Call it what it is. It is a one off made by hand that is the base for more to be made. The ACR is not the AR-15. So relating pricing to something that has been around for 40+ years with everyone and thier brother making them is Apples to Oranges. That is like trying to compare Billet M1A Recievers which start at $1000, to a Plum Crazy Ar-15 lower with can be had for 1/10 of that cost. Can you tell me why the M1A Recievers are so much more? The answer is they are made in less quantities and are in less dmeand driving up the over production cost and end user cost. Same relative theory applies here to this lower. Call it absurd if ya like, but your just being a Negative Nancy. Money and time invested do not determine market value. |
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Posted: 8/5/2012 11:39:27 PM
We will see if that is true if and when it sells. Time and money has direct correlation with value if someone is using that as the baseline for pricing. If it sells at what I am pricing then ergo it becomes the value of that item. How much are the Magpul Ar-15 lowers? $2k or more? Cost on those to develop and produce cannot be $500 each (if using the rule of 4 times cost for market pricing as a rule of thumb) but they sell at that $2k price and I am not up selling on this at all.
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Posted: 8/6/2012 12:32:02 PM
First off, the brand is everything when we're talking about value. It's the reason why a basic Noveske is worth around $1700 and a RRA is $950. The brand justifies the price because the company built a reputation of extreme quality. Anyone with machining know how can do exactly what he did. I mean, why is this guy so special to produce one, right? He might be the only one selling one right now, but might not be the only one who ever made one. If I recall, Spikes Tactical had made a lower as well as barrels for a brief moment in time. Hell there's even people out to reproduce Remington's modular forearm without that much notoriety. Oh and I did say he used a mill, but CNC technology can replicate the lower without the expense of time and labor. The reason Magpul lowers are worth so much is because of their rarity of a company and are therefore collectible. Just because you build something doesn't make it rare. It can be replicated over and over, with better enhancements or not. It's been done to just about every weapon platform in existence, so to say this is a rare gem is far from true. I'm glad that there are innovators out there, it's how the ACR came into existence and how future rifles continue to flourish, but to build something that already exists and to charge a premium for it, is absurd.
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Posted: 8/6/2012 7:45:04 PM
For all the time put in the thing he could have designed it to take a standard AR-15 FCG and selector.
That would have made it very attractive. |
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Posted: 8/6/2012 11:32:24 PM
A .22 conversion kit would've brought in the big bucks (especially with a patent), but I'm sure CMMG will perfect one in time.
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Posted: 8/14/2012 11:39:30 AM
its a prototype - if you are a company looking to get into the acr market you are just a laser scan and 3d cad rendering away from a production run. Thats a fairly cheap investment for the saved R&D work.
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Posted: 9/4/2012 1:59:06 AM
Originally Posted By 11bravo01:
A .22 conversion kit would've brought in the big bucks (especially with a patent), but I'm sure CMMG will perfect one in time. I actually have one sketched up. It would have used a dedicated .22 barrel and commercially available .22 LR AR mags. Got rid of my ACR, and that killed the project. I may start back up on it again if I ever get another one. |
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Posted: 9/4/2012 12:11:41 PM
Why'd you give up the ACR in the first place???
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Posted: 9/8/2012 8:58:59 PM
This one was a deliberately done prototype with lots of fine tuning and love given to it as it was made. If I had that much spare cheese I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 11:02:33 PM
[Last Edit: 9/8/2012 11:03:08 PM by viper5243]
Im ditching my ACR as well for a SCAR. The ACR feels just like an M16 recoil wise, it feels heavy. I do like the controls on the ACR though. The SCAR is a completely different recoil.
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Posted: 9/10/2012 4:33:45 AM
Originally Posted By viper5243:
Im ditching my ACR as well for a SCAR. The ACR feels just like an M16 recoil wise, it feels heavy. I do like the controls on the ACR though. The SCAR is a completely different recoil. That's probably because the SCAR has a PWS brake that reduces felt recoil. You can do the same for the ACR and have the same effect. I'm not trying to stop you from selling/trading out your ACR but I don't really understand the logic. Both rifles have problems and anyone can exaggerate the flaws in either rifle but I don't see anything wrong with the ACR other than people with a personal vendetta against Bushmaster and more so on the release price. After my Noveske barrel came in, I can honestly say that the reduced weight is significant. Now if I can find the Remington handguard I'd be set. |
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Posted: 9/10/2012 7:10:39 AM
Why does everyone have a hard on for the damn metal ACR lower and remy handuard? Yes no one can have them and yes they are suppose to be the epic SF parts... oh wait there are no US military (or foreign I am aware of) contracts involving the thing.
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Posted: 9/10/2012 8:04:42 AM
Originally Posted By KogaShuko:
Why does everyone have a hard on for the damn metal ACR lower and remy handuard? Yes no one can have them and yes they are suppose to be the epic SF parts... oh wait there are no US military (or foreign I am aware of) contracts involving the thing. The real question is: why do you care.....?? |
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