User Panel
Thanks Vic. For anyone else looking, this is called "Kat-Kamo". From the Master Price List for 2006, I note painting an AR-type rifle is $250. When you had yours done, was this the base price plus all the extras (rail, rings, etc) accumulated in addition? I could see this being an expensive proposition, but almost certainly worthwhile where the concern is showing up under night vision devices (as black does so well). There are twelve standard patterns available, found here www.katcoatings.com/images/guns/kk/kkalbum/index.html. Custom Kat-Kamo is also available, it seems. I'd be curious what something in a dark tan/light brown would cost, for those prefering solid colors. Which brings me back to the topic for those interested in a similar helmet setup : Victor, in your experience and with respect to the current generation NV devices, what are the better colors/patterns to reduce target signature in variable field (domestic US) or urban environments? In my area, for instance, you have both, intermixed, and what works for one in a tactical carbine role doesn't necessarily work for the other. |
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I had dealer pricing on my specific weapon and yes, the extra accessories that are painted are extra of course. They have specific packages for weapon accessories as well.
In regard to the paint I chose, (I gave this a LOT of thought with exhaustive looks in the field with MANY colors and gear over the last year.) I needed to strike the best balance between night and day (desert) cammo. As most know, the absolute worst night (for NODS ) and day cammo is black or woodland cammo for that matter. You can see by my earlier NV pics in this thread on where some black is on my web gear, (i.e. my handgun, shoulder pad and dual monocs) and it stands out like a target versus the khaki jump suit and helmet I am wearing. With this new rifle and helmet color I chose, plus the color shift I am getting, I now have really struck a very good balance between night and day colors for my mission needs. Hope this helps |
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I will be ading some NV shots looking at this paint. I've been hitting the paint with IR lasers, illuminators, as well as LED IR. Thus far, VERY pleased with the IR absorbtion of this paint as well! WoW. All I see on the helmet thus far is the IR tape and flag! More to come...
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Victor, I can't get over how fuzzy the edges of your gear look in these pics! Talk about hidden in plain sight. |
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Glad you like the paint, it has been the most effective cammo I've seen to date in the day and night. Still planning on getting the NV pics up as well.
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Victor. You want to send your dual MUM set up to me. Yes you do.
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If you think woodland camo looks bad on NV, you should see a standard wool blend Police uniform that has been dry cleaned. They pratically glow, although it does make it easier to find your troops in the woods. In informal testing, we did find that Army UCP/ACU and MCCU (MARPAT, if we are allowed to say that these days on this board) both seem to perform pretty well when viewed with Gen 3 devices.
The backyard pictures are funny. I have the exact same thing on a couple of different PowerPoints at work for classes I teach. I guess backyard pictures of the standard suburban privacy fence and the occasional plant are a common theme for the suburban NV user. |
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I would like to see a published study on all NV cammo on what works and what doesn't. I've done a few things on paint of course and some clothing, but would like to see a bit more before I have to spend too much $$ on all the different patterns out there. BTW, what classes do you teach? Thanks |
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In the NV realm, I teach a couple of basic user classes for Patrol Officers and for SWAT guys. I have only run them for my agency so far. I keep them fairly simple for Patrol folks; installing batteries, correct focusing procedures (important) and how to NOT break stuff so I don't have to fix it. Systems covered for patrol are the PVS-4, PVS-5 and the PVS-7A and the various handheld FLIRs we field. Patrol will getting PVS-7B/Ds and monos built around MX-10160s in the near future (a few of the B/Ds are already on the streets as SWAT upgrades and retires them). I will probably retire most of the PVS-4s and PVS-5s in the next couple of years; nobody wants to use the -4s because they are so big, and the -5s are all slowly going dead. The troops love the monos built around the MX-10160 and that is a perfectly sized and packaged system for street officers. Tactical guys use about what you would expect for higher-end gear.
I have my state instructor certificate, so it is just a matter of writing lesson plans in the approved format, developing supporting student material and coming up with an exam of some sort; usually hands-on practical exams for NV gear. |
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We should swap curriculims sometime! I also run NV classes with several local and fed folks. Intro to NV, basic OP's, such as functionality (with the obvious of power, focus - near/far field), head wear, tube safety etc. for new students. For phase II stuff, we work on movement, detection, room clearing, IR illumination, and other officer safety issues. It was interesting to hear some of your dept's are still running 7's? Most of my Dept's phased out their "old" 7's in favor of keeping "one eye open" for tactical reasoning. Some of the old timers still HATE, what they call "21st Century cheats." Most of these folk are retiring and with the Homeland Defense funds getting out further these days, it's good to see some open minded "new-school" tactics evolving!
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Great thread! I've got a question I haven't been able to find the answer to. I have a Litton M983 which I assume is the same as a PVS 18. I want to set up a helmet similar to what you have done here. Are the mounts compatable, PVS 14/PVS 18? Could I use a helmet with a PVS 14 mount, the face mount I have is just too uncomfortable for extended periods. Thanks!
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The new PVS-18 uses a different helmet interface than the PVS-14. Hope this helps. |
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Victor.
That's a killer piece of kit!! I'm extremely interested in obtaining the helmet/NV setup you have. I am willing to pay what is costs (undoubtedly - very high). Please tell me if there's a way that I can order it through you, and have it good-to-go when it gets here. Let me know your thoughts, Cheers, Rob. |
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At http://www.altair.com.pl/files/raport/0607/swiec.htm
there is an article related to the problem of "gloving" of uniforms when using NVD. The article is in Polish, but there are some pictures. Personally I don't like the term gloving, as the uniform is not gloving but reflecting IR just as he is reflecting visible light. On the first picture, the guy is wearing the Polish wz.127PI desert camo jacket, ACU jacket and DCU pants. The picture below is the same setup seen through NVG. A black wall behind wasn't the best idea. The las two pictures are showing some additional gear. Their camo seen throug NVG is... well, inexistant. Ironrat |
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The first pictures on this page by victor, what Sight is on that ar?
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It is a Elcan Specter DR. You can see a full review of it here. www.ar15.com/content/products/sights/elcan/
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Hi Victor,
Great setup! Can you send me the info as to how I an obtain one of the helmets? I am ready to start building a mounted system for my PVS-14. |
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Thanks alot. |
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Because the dual MUM's do not cost 10K+, no noticeable difference in clarity, resolution, they also do no need an external power supply and I do not have a flight requirement.. The MUMS work extremely well for almost all my requirements. Hope this helps. |
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No, not at all including numerous other sets my customers are using. I was about to add that to my reply.
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Kat Performance coating is still doing quite well and we are about to send him another rifle for their amazing coatings! We will post pics once we get it back. Thought we would give an update.
Vic |
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Quoted:
Vic- do you still sell this item? I cannot find it on your web site. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/Clutch99/Bino%20Mount/BinoMount002.jpg You bet, 1st product listed here. http://tnvc.com/categories/night_vision_accessories.html Hope this helps. Vic |
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Quoted:
Kat Performance coating is still doing quite well and we are about to send him another rifle for their amazing coatings! We will post pics once we get it back. Thought we would give an update. Vic Get it back yet? |
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Good morning Vic,
The time for me to paint my (black) TC-2001 has come, and I have a couple of questions: Does the standard Krylon hold up well enough? Is there a particular color that you would recommend? Any particular surface prep work recommended other than rinsing with warm water and drying thoroughly? Thanks. |
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I've never had any problem with standard Krylon. One thing to remember is that the high-abrasion areas such as edges are going to always wear more than regular surfaces. But, it is easily touched up with more paint. However, little wear areas tend to add character :)
Thee really isn't any need for surface prep |
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Thanks Chip.
I simply rinsed it with some warm water to remove any dirt, and then let it air dry thoroughly. I then applied two light coats of Rust-Oleum "Speciality Camouflage" #1917 Khaki that claims a non-reflective finish. It seems to have come out just fine, although not as "fancy" as Vic's. I only did the helmet, as I don't have the balls to paint my 14. |
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Vic
I have a question concerning your choice of NVG mount, why did you choose to use a MICH plate as oposed to using a Norotos Universal or some other more streamlind plate ? Just wondering. Just for information purposes, I'm using the same Helmet/MICH mount set up, my choices were purely monetary. I had to laugh at the "Wiley Coyote" comparrison, walked into many a wall myself |
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Quoted:
Vic I have a question concerning your choice of NVG mount, why did you choose to use a MICH plate as oposed to using a Norotos Universal or some other more streamlind plate ? Just wondering. Just for information purposes, I'm using the same Helmet/MICH mount set up, my choices were purely monetary. I had to laugh at the "Wiley Coyote" comparrison, walked into many a wall myself At that time (look at the date), it was the only choice I had. Norotos was not selling much to the pubic at that time, only Mil contract orders. It's great they now sell commercially. |
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I did look at the date - 6/19/2010, after your reply I noticed on the next post down that the date was 2006, it looks like a lot has changed in 5 years, of all the different Helmet mounts you have used, whats your favorite?
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Quoted:
I did look at the date - 6/19/2010, after your reply I noticed on the next post down that the date was 2006, it looks like a lot has changed in 5 years, of all the different Helmet mounts you have used, whats your favorite? Indeed, MUCH has changed in regards to NV mounts. 2 of my favorites are the Wilcox G24 and the Norotos INVG. These 2 companies just keep making better and better kit every year. Vic Edited, we also run a lot with the Wilcox MHRS (Mission Helmet Recording System), and mount system. An awesome piece of gear. |
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Are there similar images that anyone knows of, of rifles through thermal?
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