 tvfreakarms 
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Posted: 3/24/2011 4:49:21 AM
[Last Edit: 3/24/2011 4:51:03 AM by tvfreakarms]
So far i only been using brass cased ammo for my pof. But i'm looking to shot the wolf steel cased ammo so that i don't have to spend as much. My questions is has anyone had any problems using steel cased ammo on their pof (.223)?
Some people will not use steel cased ammo at all on their rifles. I've read that some of the lacquer or what ever they use on the steel cases, some of the stuff get's all built up in the chamber and what not. I don't know if it's a pain in the ass to get it cleaned or causes problems. I've also read that when using the steel case ammo and then switching to brass case ammo could lead to problems. I know this has probably been asked a thousand times but i guess i need to be reassured. I'm looking to stock up on ammo and get ready to shoot a lot this coming spring and summer. I havent' shot in a while and i've been itching to shoot. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/25/2011 2:14:54 PM
OK let me take a swing at this.. I just took a class with my POF and I used WOLF Steel. Bad DEAL>>>> my gun ran like crap.. I was really disappointed. I was with some knowledgable folks that stated that "Frank really likes to put match chambers in his rifles and they are do not like Steel." It was so bad that I had to go to my backup that eats anything.. Now on the second day I went to Remington green box.. No the best ammo, but the POF ate it like starved dog.. I am now a true believer in BRASS ONLY. I totally understand the cost issues but I like to have things run smooth when I am on the trigger.. I LOVE MY POF.. I have a ARFCOM Lower that I built and a then a purchased upper.. Shoots way better then me....
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dirtbikesandguns
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Posted: 3/25/2011 4:38:32 PM
Good to know this..............
I bought a couple of cases of Wolf at the latest show...........$169 per thousand.........I know it runs good enough in my regular AR's, but I haven't tried it in my two really nice ARs.....my POF being one of them. I may run a mag full through each just to see, but now I'm worried?? Nah!, as I type this I'm changing my mind....brass only for my POF! I use brass Yugo 7.62x39 in my 7.62 AR at $199 per thousand. Does anyone sell cheap .223/5.56 brass in that price range?? I may concider cheap brass for the POF???? |
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lonewolfgun
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Posted: 3/25/2011 7:10:45 PM
My 5.56 upper eats the silver bear ammo just fine. It's dirty as hell though.
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Posted: 3/26/2011 10:30:24 PM
WOW! I thought a good quality AR's would be able to take any type of ammo (steel or brass). MY buddy although doesn't own a pof but a spikes tactical AR shoots wolf with no problems at all.
Damn i was hoping to hear "nope no problems shooting steel case ammo with my pof". Thanks for the heads up. |
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Posted: 3/28/2011 5:06:01 PM
I thought POF uses steel cased in their testing
edit: from POF website under FAQ: Can I shoot steel cased ammunition like Wolf, in my POF rifles? Yes, in fact POF does a lot of testing with WOLF ammo. There are no issues using steel cased ammo in our weapons, however, it is important to remember to thoroughly clean the throat area of the chamber after a session with Wolf or other steel cased ammo. Will |
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dirtbikesandguns
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Posted: 3/29/2011 3:21:03 PM
Originally Posted By spanky99l:
I thought POF uses steel cased in their testing edit: from POF website under FAQ: Can I shoot steel cased ammunition like Wolf, in my POF rifles? Yes, in fact POF does a lot of testing with WOLF ammo. There are no issues using steel cased ammo in our weapons, however, it is important to remember to thoroughly clean the throat area of the chamber after a session with Wolf or other steel cased ammo. Will Once again.......Good to know Maybe I will try Wolf ? |
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Posted: 4/9/2011 11:31:43 PM
It will run just fine mine does no problem.
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Posted: 4/17/2011 11:14:51 AM
I have ran some, not a lot of steel Wolf thru my POf and had no problems. I don't like using the steel case stuff in any of my guns pistols included. This is just my opinion, steel case ammo is like cheap gas. You don't want to run in your nice car but don't mine putting in your lawnmower.
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yekimak
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Posted: 4/17/2011 11:45:23 AM
The newer WPA stuff should run better for people. Made in the Barnaul plant rather than Tula. Barnaul makes the Bear series of ammo that is usually a bit hotter than the older wolf.
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Posted: 5/16/2011 10:16:13 PM
All I run through my POF is Wolf even with my M4 2000 08 can on it, after several cases of ammo and several years NO PROBLEMS. Brass is nice in that its usually cleaner, more accurate but not worth the price unless you want SS109 or 77 SMK. You can do alot more shooting and save about 33%. If you only shoot brass either money isnt an issue or you have been made to believe you have to. BTW Hornady bought into either Wolf or Tula and is producing steel cased ammo.
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Posted: 6/24/2011 12:53:00 PM
[Last Edit: 6/24/2011 12:53:41 PM by Sinatra]
Originally Posted By yekimak:
The newer WPA stuff should run better for people. Made in the Barnaul plant rather than Tula. Barnaul makes the Bear series of ammo that is usually a bit hotter than the older wolf. I've asked around and done a good deal of research about this matter. It seems as though the steel case is not the issue, but rather the old Wolf (black box) and Tula ammo are underpowered (not hot enough). My POF p415 does not like the old Wolf and I usually get a bunch of stuck cases in the chamber. I have used Wolf Military Classic and Silver Bear successfully though. I want to try to the new Wolf (WPA) stuff. I bought a case of MFS zinc plated 55 gr. FMJ which I need to try out. I'm dissapointed that my gas piston AR can't run the old Wolf.  |
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SlightlySkewed
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Posted: 6/24/2011 2:11:00 PM
Some people will not use steel cased ammo at all on their rifles. Their Loss! I've read that some of the lacquer or what ever they use on the steel cases, some of the stuff get's all built up in the chamber and what not. I don't know if it's a pain in the ass to get it cleaned or causes problems. Complete falsehood...think about it. I've also read that when using the steel case ammo and then switching to brass case ammo could lead to problems.
True. Steel does not expand against the chamber wall like brass - click here for more info. F.Y.I. - Brown Bear is great full power ammo |
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Posted: 6/24/2011 2:57:31 PM
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Some people will not use steel cased ammo at all on their rifles. Their Loss! I've read that some of the lacquer or what ever they use on the steel cases, some of the stuff get's all built up in the chamber and what not. I don't know if it's a pain in the ass to get it cleaned or causes problems. Complete falsehood...think about it. I've also read that when using the steel case ammo and then switching to brass case ammo could lead to problems.
True. Steel does not expand against the chamber wall like brass - click here for more info. F.Y.I. - Brown Bear is great full power ammo Thanks for debunking some of the myths. And thanks for the tip on Brown Bear! |
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SlightlySkewed
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Posted: 6/24/2011 3:39:25 PM
[Last Edit: 6/24/2011 3:42:07 PM by SlightlySkewed]
Originally Posted By Sinatra:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Some people will not use steel cased ammo at all on their rifles. Their Loss! I've read that some of the lacquer or what ever they use on the steel cases, some of the stuff get's all built up in the chamber and what not. I don't know if it's a pain in the ass to get it cleaned or causes problems. Complete falsehood...think about it. I've also read that when using the steel case ammo and then switching to brass case ammo could lead to problems.
True. Steel does not expand against the chamber wall like brass - click here for more info. F.Y.I. - Brown Bear is great full power ammo Thanks for debunking some of the myths. And thanks for the tip on Brown Bear! No problem... Another you may hear is that steel cased ammo is "hard on extractors" - once again, this makes absolutely no sense. The statement infers that the rim of brass cased ammunition somehow cushions the extractor as it makes contact with the rim. If you examine it's shape, extractor is designed to easily slip over the rim of the case. As the cartridge seats into the bolt face, the extractor is forced into the case extractor groove causing the extractor to engage the rim of the case. The extractor cannot somehow magically differentiate between a brass or a steel cartridge rim... Once again, don't mix & match brass cased and steel cased ammo. Enjoy your time at the range.  |
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Posted: 6/25/2011 5:01:28 PM
Originally Posted By zlambe:
It will run just fine mine does no problem. Mine runs fine with steel as well. Just clean the chamber good. |
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Posted: 7/4/2011 2:41:25 AM
Thanks for your opionions.
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POF-USA
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Posted: 9/29/2011 5:01:45 AM
Hornady sells very accurate steel case ammo.
You may want to check them out. When using Hornady and Wolf steel case ammo you will need to clean the chamber up in the neck / throat area of the chamber. The polymar coating on the steel casing will build up in the chamber over time and may cause failure to extract issues. Hope this information helps. Best regards, Frank L. DeSomma Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. www.POF-USA.com Sales@POF-USA.com 623-561-9572 WK. 623-321-1680 Fax  |
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SlightlySkewed
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Posted: 9/29/2011 5:39:23 AM
Originally Posted By POF-USA:
Hornady sells very accurate steel case ammo. You may want to check them out. When using Hornady and Wolf steel case ammo you will need to clean the chamber up in the neck / throat area of the chamber. The polymar coating on the steel casing will build up in the chamber over time and may cause failure to extract issues. Hope this information helps. Best regards, Frank L. DeSomma Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. www.POF-USA.com Sales@POF-USA.com 623-561-9572 WK. 623-321-1680 Fax http://www.pof-usa.com/images/poflogogaspiston1.gif This has been debunked many times...have you proven otherwise? Click here for a bit of good information. |
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POF-USA
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Posted: 9/29/2011 11:46:08 AM
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Originally Posted By POF-USA:
Hornady sells very accurate steel case ammo. You may want to check them out. When using Hornady and Wolf steel case ammo you will need to clean the chamber up in the neck / throat area of the chamber. The polymar coating on the steel casing will build up in the chamber over time and may cause failure to extract issues. Hope this information helps. Best regards, Frank L. DeSomma Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. www.POF-USA.com Sales@POF-USA.com 623-561-9572 WK. 623-321-1680 Fax http://www.pof-usa.com/images/poflogogaspiston1.gif This has been debunked many times...have you proven otherwise? Click here for a bit of good information. The shot count would be is a lot higher then 100 rounds. The ammo works well. But most users never clean the chamber properly. Example: using a snake cord to clean the rifling doesn't clean the chamber. Wolf powder is dirty and the polymor coating has and effect when the chamber isn't cleaned properly. We have seen this many times. We buy wolf ammo by the pallet loads. I think we have good experience using this type of ammo. Proper cleaning of the chamber will to prevent extraction issues. We hope this information helps. The test you show has XM193 ammo here. We are not a big fan of this ammo. We consider this ammo to be factory seconds or blemished ammo. We have seen this ammo with many dings, scratches, and dents in the cases. Best regards, Frank L. DeSomma Patriot Ordnance Factory, Inc. www.POF-USA.com Sales@POF-USA.com 623-561-9572 WK. 623-321-1680 Fax
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Posted: 10/5/2011 5:21:25 PM
Originally Posted By mgunslinger:
OK let me take a swing at this.. I just took a class with my POF and I used WOLF Steel. Bad DEAL>>>> my gun ran like crap.. I was really disappointed. I was with some knowledgable folks that stated that "Frank really likes to put match chambers in his rifles and they are do not like Steel." It was so bad that I had to go to my backup that eats anything.. Now on the second day I went to Remington green box.. No the best ammo, but the POF ate it like starved dog.. I am now a true believer in BRASS ONLY. I totally understand the cost issues but I like to have things run smooth when I am on the trigger.. I LOVE MY POF.. I have a ARFCOM Lower that I built and a then a purchased upper.. Shoots way better then me.... I've also had great luck with Remington 55gr FMJ in my POF upper. I previously had terrible luck with XM193. I blew primers repeatedly in a Chris Fry (M.D.T.S.) carbine class last summer and had to finish using the instructor's Spike's Tactical piston rifle (it ate up all my XM193 with a smile). So I (recently) had the barrel of my POF replaced (Chris at POF guessed it had a short throat) and now it seems to run with XM193 but still leaves all kinds of pressure marks on the caseheads. What bothers me is that my Colt and my buddy's Bushmaster run fine with these same lots of XM193 and leave no casehead marks. Frank suggested I switch to Wolf or Hornady steel cased ammo for economy shooting instead of XM193, so I don't like to hear that your gun doesn't like Wolf. As for the new polymer coating, my understanding was that even a blowtorch can't melt it. My research lead me to believe that the sticky extraction issue is due to the fact that steel cases won't expand to fill the chamber like brass will, and this allows the chamber (including the neck area) to get very fouled. However, Frank believes the polymer can (and does) melt in chambers and makes things sticky. He has actual experience whereas I do not, so I'll take his word for it. Either way, using steel-cased ammo will mean cleaning my chamber more often and more carefully. I'm not in love with that idea, but such is life. I'll be testing a Sig piston upper eraly next year in hopes that it digests XM193 like my Colt does. If it doesn't, I'll try a Spike's Tactical upper later in the year. If neither one likes the XM193 I've stocked up on, I'll stick with my POF and face the fact that I'll almost always be shooting Wolf ammunition. However, if one of those uppers likes XM193, I'll be moving in that direction (and away from POF). It won't be soon, but I will post my findings. |
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Posted: 10/8/2011 3:15:42 PM
Have you considered that Remington 55 and Wolf are loaded to .223 pressure and not 5.56mm. There is a difference. POF uses a tighter match chamber and when you add higher pressure 5.56 loads, you may see signs of pressure. Colt and Bushmaster use mil spec 5.56 chambers. My agency runs 15 Bushmasters with 5.56 chambers. Some show pressure signs shooting XM193, some don't. Since your gun doesn't blow primers anymore and only shows scuff on the case head, I would shoot it up.
Originally Posted By cooperScout:
Originally Posted By mgunslinger:
OK let me take a swing at this.. I just took a class with my POF and I used WOLF Steel. Bad DEAL>>>> my gun ran like crap.. I was really disappointed. I was with some knowledgable folks that stated that "Frank really likes to put match chambers in his rifles and they are do not like Steel." It was so bad that I had to go to my backup that eats anything.. Now on the second day I went to Remington green box.. No the best ammo, but the POF ate it like starved dog.. I am now a true believer in BRASS ONLY. I totally understand the cost issues but I like to have things run smooth when I am on the trigger.. I LOVE MY POF.. I have a ARFCOM Lower that I built and a then a purchased upper.. Shoots way better then me.... I've also had great luck with Remington 55gr FMJ in my POF upper. I previously had terrible luck with XM193. I blew primers repeatedly in a Chris Fry (M.D.T.S.) carbine class last summer and had to finish using the instructor's Spike's Tactical piston rifle (it ate up all my XM193 with a smile). So I (recently) had the barrel of my POF replaced (Chris at POF guessed it had a short throat) and now it seems to run with XM193 but still leaves all kinds of pressure marks on the caseheads. What bothers me is that my Colt and my buddy's Bushmaster run fine with these same lots of XM193 and leave no casehead marks. Frank suggested I switch to Wolf or Hornady steel cased ammo for economy shooting instead of XM193, so I don't like to hear that your gun doesn't like Wolf. As for the new polymer coating, my understanding was that even a blowtorch can't melt it. My research lead me to believe that the sticky extraction issue is due to the fact that steel cases won't expand to fill the chamber like brass will, and this allows the chamber (including the neck area) to get very fouled. However, Frank believes the polymer can (and does) melt in chambers and makes things sticky. He has actual experience whereas I do not, so I'll take his word for it. Either way, using steel-cased ammo will mean cleaning my chamber more often and more carefully. I'm not in love with that idea, but such is life. I'll be testing a Sig piston upper eraly next year in hopes that it digests XM193 like my Colt does. If it doesn't, I'll try a Spike's Tactical upper later in the year. If neither one likes the XM193 I've stocked up on, I'll stick with my POF and face the fact that I'll almost always be shooting Wolf ammunition. However, if one of those uppers likes XM193, I'll be moving in that direction (and away from POF). It won't be soon, but I will post my findings. |
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Posted: 11/22/2011 3:27:36 AM
My POF just shoots anything including the wolf brand. Just try different ammo and avoid the brand that's giving you trouble.
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SC-Texas
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Posted: 2/28/2012 5:28:22 PM
My POF 9.25" shoots anything.
Here is a lot of Steel Cased ammo going through my 9.25" upper. |
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