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ChuckTait
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Posted: 7/22/2010 5:03:36 AM
I noticed that you've started to list complete AR rifles and carbines for sale on your web site, including some SBR carbines. I was wondering since you are selling AR lower recievers, will you be selling factory SBR lower recievers?
kap_x
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Posted: 7/22/2010 5:07:58 AM
What's the point?
Shipping an SBR is a nightmare compared to shipping a rifle.
It's the same amount of money, and the same amount of paperwork..just engraving and a form 1 instead of a form 4.
Logistically it makes no sense for BCM to do so.
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VarmitSniper
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:01:58 AM
You cannot register just the receiver it has to be a complete weapon.

You may find yourself one day dead in a ditch somewhere. But by God, you'll find me in a pile of brass...
the1000z
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Posted: 7/22/2010 9:18:43 PM
[Last Edit: 7/22/2010 9:20:34 PM by the1000z]
Originally Posted By kap_x:
What's the point?
Shipping an SBR is a nightmare compared to shipping a rifle.
It's the same amount of money, and the same amount of paperwork..just engraving and a form 1 instead of a form 4.
Logistically it makes no sense for BCM to do so.


shipping a SBR is no more difficult for a dealer to ship than a standard rifle or handgun... in fact, they all can be shipped threw the USPS by a dealer...

Originally Posted By VarmitSniper:
You cannot register just the receiver it has to be a complete weapon.



true... SBR's must be registered and leave the factory as a complete firearm.
Thank you Strykewolf for the membership
polymorpheous
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Posted: 7/23/2010 2:30:10 AM
BCM SBR lower

i had a similar question. here's the thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55844
the1000z
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Posted: 7/23/2010 3:31:21 AM
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
BCM SBR lower

i had a similar question. here's the thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55844


here is the deal with that lower...

it left BCM as a complete firearm and was transferred as such from the manufacturer to a dealer, once in the dealers hands he is officially the owner if it and can do with it as he sees fit...

Keeping the upper and selling the lower (what he is doing)

stripping it completely and selling just the SBR receiver (option 2)

selling the complete gun as he received it (option 3)

or putting a 30" barreled upper on it and selling it as a SBR (yes I know there's no 30" barrel AR but once its registered as a SBR it doesn't matter what length upper is on it because the upper is just an accessory)
Thank you Strykewolf for the membership
ChuckTait
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Posted: 7/25/2010 5:17:40 AM
Thanks to everyone for the responces.
hellbound
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Posted: 7/25/2010 6:49:35 AM
Originally Posted By the1000z:
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
BCM SBR lower

i had a similar question. here's the thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55844


here is the deal with that lower...

it left BCM as a complete firearm and was transferred as such from the manufacturer to a dealer, once in the dealers hands he is officially the owner if it and can do with it as he sees fit...

Keeping the upper and selling the lower (what he is doing)

stripping it completely and selling just the SBR receiver (option 2)

selling the complete gun as he received it (option 3)

or putting a 30" barreled upper on it and selling it as a SBR (yes I know there's no 30" barrel AR but once its registered as a SBR it doesn't matter what length upper is on it because the upper is just an accessory)


the ATF disagrees with you, once the SBR is no longer in an SBR configuration, it should be treated like a title I firearm.

from the ATF NFA FAQ

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA.Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?
There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
the1000z
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Posted: 7/25/2010 5:39:02 PM
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By the1000z:
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
BCM SBR lower

i had a similar question. here's the thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55844


here is the deal with that lower...

it left BCM as a complete firearm and was transferred as such from the manufacturer to a dealer, once in the dealers hands he is officially the owner if it and can do with it as he sees fit...

Keeping the upper and selling the lower (what he is doing)

stripping it completely and selling just the SBR receiver (option 2)

selling the complete gun as he received it (option 3)

or putting a 30" barreled upper on it and selling it as a SBR (yes I know there's no 30" barrel AR but once its registered as a SBR it doesn't matter what length upper is on it because the upper is just an accessory)


the ATF disagrees with you, once the SBR is no longer in an SBR configuration, it should be treated like a title I firearm.

from the ATF NFA FAQ

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA.Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?
There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.



this means that if you chose not to notify the ATF of the change it is still considered a SBR
Thank you Strykewolf for the membership
hellbound
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Posted: 7/25/2010 8:19:01 PM
[Last Edit: 7/25/2010 8:23:30 PM by hellbound]
Originally Posted By the1000z:
Originally Posted By hellbound:
Originally Posted By the1000z:
Originally Posted By polymorpheous:
BCM SBR lower

i had a similar question. here's the thread.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=55844


here is the deal with that lower...

it left BCM as a complete firearm and was transferred as such from the manufacturer to a dealer, once in the dealers hands he is officially the owner if it and can do with it as he sees fit...

Keeping the upper and selling the lower (what he is doing)

stripping it completely and selling just the SBR receiver (option 2)

selling the complete gun as he received it (option 3)

or putting a 30" barreled upper on it and selling it as a SBR (yes I know there's no 30" barrel AR but once its registered as a SBR it doesn't matter what length upper is on it because the upper is just an accessory)


the ATF disagrees with you, once the SBR is no longer in an SBR configuration, it should be treated like a title I firearm.

from the ATF NFA FAQ

Q: I possess a properly registered SBR or SBS. I intend to strip the receiver and remove the barrel prior to selling the receiver. Is the bare receiver still subject to regulation under the NFA as a SBR or SBS?
A stripped receiver without a barrel does not meet the definition of a SBR or SBS under the NFA.Although the previously registered firearm would remain registered unless the possessor notified the NFA Branch of the change, there is no provision in statute or regulation requiring registration of a firearm without a barrel because its physical characteristics would make it only a GCA “firearm” pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3)(B). If the subsequent owner buys the receiver as a GCA firearm and installs a barrel less than 16 inches in length (SBR) or 18 inches in length (SBS), the firearm would be subject to a $200 making tax and registration under the NFA by the manufacturer or maker of the SBR or SBS. Because registration depends upon the stated intent of the applicant, there is no provision to allow registration of a NFA firearm by anyone other than the maker or manufacturer.

Q: Is it necessary to send notification to ATF and receive acknowledgement that the SBR or SBS has been removed from the purview of the NFA before it may be sold as a GCA firearm?
There is no requirement for the possessor of a registered NFA firearm to notify ATF that the firearm has been removed from the purview of the NFA. However, ATF recommends the possessor notify the NFA Branch of such changes in writing so that the possessor is not mistakenly identified as the owner if the firearm is later used in a crime. If, at the time of transfer, the firearm does not meet the definition of a SBR, it should be transferred without filing the NFA transfer application and without payment of the transfer tax.



this means that if you chose not to notify the ATF of the change it is still considered a SBR


no it's not. it just means you can't read

it would be treated as a simple "firearm" pursuant with the gun control act, NOT the NFA.

if you read the next line in red (or that entire paragraph that i just bolded) you'd see that you are still wrong.

there is no legal requirement to notify the ATF to update the NFRTR (unregister), once the gun is no longer configured as an SBR it should be sold as a title I firearm.

if you go back to the top paragraph, it states that if the new buyer wants to make it into an SBR, they will have to pay ANOTHER $200 tax stamp and reapply via Form 1
Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
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Posted: 7/25/2010 9:51:53 PM
I would prefer to have a factory-registered SBR simply because then I wouldn't have to engrave my name & city/state on it once I got it. If this means I have to buy a complete BCM upper, well, ok... I was gonna do that anyway.
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scooter22
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Posted: 8/2/2010 2:47:51 PM
BCM does in fact make SBR lowers for sale...
Wormydog1724
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Posted: 8/2/2010 10:34:58 PM
Im a noob to the NFA still. I am wanting to get the 12.5 barrel in the Kino config or just with the VTAC rail, cant decide yet.

But If I were to order a BCM lower now, to get the lower in my possession and then fill out my trust so I know the serial number and all that, Could BCM register the lower as an SBR and have my info already engraved on it? Or would it be best just to get the lower, fill out the trust, send off for stamp, engrave lower, order upper?

I am trying to figure out the order of things because I have enough extra cash to buy the lower now and send off for the stamp, or buy the upper now and let it set in my FFL's safe until I get some more cash saved then get the lower and send off for the stamp. I wish I had enough right now so I could get it all done. But I don't. I just bought an engagement ring () so I am trying to sell an acog to get enough cash so I'm not eating ramen noodles for the next two months

help please!?
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