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Posted: 10/22/2015 8:28:42 AM EDT
[#1]
underage drinking is not tolerated anymore. Field grade article 15. Possible chapter. I've been seeing guys booted out for that a lot lately
really depends on the command. But theres a big push for no tolerance on that stuff |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 8:30:21 AM EDT
[#2]
Since the property damage was his POV and nobody was injured, he will probably receive an Article 15 (non judicial punishment) for underage drinking. If he was over the legal limit there will be more severe legal charges both on the civilian and military side.
Article 15 punishment is up to his commander. Could be extra duty for a few day/weeks. Could be pay and rank reduction or any combination thereof. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 8:44:09 AM EDT
[#3]
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 8:50:03 AM EDT
[#4]
He's not going to drive on base anything soon
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:05:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. He can also kiss WO or any SMU's good bye. If he isn't smart enough to get a cab in todays army with the mind numbing power of soviet style anti-DUI campaigns, he should probably get out after this enlistment before he really fucks up. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:11:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He can also kiss WO or any SMU's good bye. Oh there are all sorts of repercussions for this incident depending on how it goes down. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:11:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. This. It bothers me that he's full of shit too. A few beers earlier that night, my ass. They were both plowed. Mark my words. Will be interesting to hear what the BAC was. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:12:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Whatever happens to your son, he needs to figure out who dropped the dime to his command and remember to never, ever, again trust them with any information he wants kept private. Was your son a dumbass for doing what he did? Sure, there's no denying that. But, so long as nobody was hurt and the only property damage was to his own car, there was no need for one of his "buddies" to go around telling the story to their chain-of-command. Of course, it was probably the passenger who thought he was being cool and telling everyone a cool story about rolling the car onto its side and driving away in it, not thinking about who he was telling and what they were hearing.
Your son needs to learn three lessons here: 1) Don't drink and drive. 2) Don't drink until he's legally allowed to do so. 3) Buddy is only half the word. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:26:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh there are all sorts of repercussions for this incident depending on how it goes down. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He can also kiss WO or any SMU's good bye. Oh there are all sorts of repercussions for this incident depending on how it goes down. Oh yeah. You could spend a year between gate guard, grass cutting, and trash duty. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:30:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah. You could spend a year between gate guard, grass cutting, and trash duty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He can also kiss WO or any SMU's good bye. Oh there are all sorts of repercussions for this incident depending on how it goes down. Oh yeah. You could spend a year between gate guard, grass cutting, and trash duty. not to mention ALWAYS having to answer yes in section 24 of the e-QIP. Guaranteed he's going to ASAP. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 9:57:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Thanks guys. I figured it was somewhere between a miserable life for a while and getting the boot. BAC was .04 on the blood test, and it wasn't too long after the accident, but the DUI limit for a minor is .02. I don't know if civilian cops will get involved or not at this point. We're obviously glad no one was hurt, but he made the dumb decisions and he'll have to face the consequences.
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Posted: 10/22/2015 10:12:30 AM EDT
[#12]
No one fucked your son. Your son and his buddy fucked themselves. Correct that line of thinking next time you talk with him.
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Posted: 10/22/2015 10:23:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one fucked your son. Your son and his buddy fucked themselves. Correct that line of thinking next time you talk with him. This. The command is going to find out anyway. It doesn't matter who told them, they're going to find out. |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 11:13:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys. I figured it was somewhere between a miserable life for a while and getting the boot. BAC was .04 on the blood test, and it wasn't too long after the accident, but the DUI limit for a minor is .02. I don't know if civilian cops will get involved or not at this point. We're obviously glad no one was hurt, but he made the dumb decisions and he'll have to face the consequences. He had "a couple beers" earlier in the night. Later in the night he swerves and rolls the car. He and passenger flip car on its tires and drive away. I guess they eventually get back to some sort of barracks? Was a gate guard involved at all? Anyway, eventually the chain of command gets wind that Joe's car got rolled (I'm still wondering what this thing looked like), and the commander orders a blood test. That's a lot of time lapsed; hours I'd say - at a minimum - between just the incident and the blood draw. But, I admit the BAC was lower than I'd expected. Still not clear on timelines, though. A couple of beers? A couple of beers might put you at .04 an hour later, not much later in the evening. But, seems every drunk ever only had "a couple of beers." |
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Posted: 10/22/2015 1:00:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one fucked your son. Your son and his buddy fucked themselves. Correct that line of thinking next time you talk with him. this. Might as well be honest and pay his dues. He fucked up. |
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Posted: 10/24/2015 3:30:07 AM EDT
[#16]
When you fuck up and get caught, the first thing you should do is say "I fucked up, here was my reasoning, and I want to fix it and never do it again".
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Posted: 10/31/2015 9:48:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. Any alcohol related stuff is bad theses days, If he was a good troop he might be ok. Its all up to the CDR, what unit is he in? If he is in FT Bragg I might can find out something/might know his CDR/1SG Let me know Free |
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Posted: 11/1/2015 12:57:27 AM EDT
[#18]
No matter what he is going to pay for it. However he made a really stupid choice and endangered peoples lives. He needs to understand that.
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Posted: 11/1/2015 1:58:11 AM EDT
[#19]
1) He had more than "a couple beers"... Ask any cop how many times they've heard that line.
2) With today's Army, I would look at your son likely getting chaptered (off of the limited info you have). The blood draw results will lead to NJP for underage and DUI even if civilian LE does not get involved. We're losing a very good NCO right now to a DUI because of stupid decisions. The budget and force numbers just don't support keeping those who don't conform to the current expectations Soldiers are held to. 3) Your son made a stupid choice. Im sure he knows that by now but you need to ensure he understands that. My family was nearly killed by a drunk driver (all life flighted). My Soldiers understand that there will be no leniency when it comes to DUI. Hopefully his CoC are partiers...for his sake. |
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Posted: 11/1/2015 2:41:13 AM EDT
[#20]
He's lucky.
I had a Corporal that did that and the passenger was killed. Two years in prison. |
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Posted: 11/1/2015 2:41:40 AM EDT
[#21]
With the above update, he'll be chaptered and back home around first of the year.
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Posted: 11/1/2015 2:53:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With the above update, he'll be chaptered and back home around first of the year. I think that timeline is a bit quick... Unless there is a reason they want rid of him quickly, it will take a month or so to complete UCMJ punishment. Even if they initiate a chapter in conjunction with UCMJ all of his appointments will take a while. This time of year they're busy with all of the holidays and DONSA's taking up some of their office time. Feb to march is more realistic. But yeah...if they're going to wash their hands of him it won't take too terribly long. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 3:03:49 PM EDT
[#23]
He's fucked.
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Posted: 11/2/2015 3:18:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that timeline is a bit quick... Unless there is a reason they want rid of him quickly, it will take a month or so to complete UCMJ punishment. Even if they initiate a chapter in conjunction with UCMJ all of his appointments will take a while. This time of year they're busy with all of the holidays and DONSA's taking up some of their office time. Feb to march is more realistic. But yeah...if they're going to wash their hands of him it won't take too terribly long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
With the above update, he'll be chaptered and back home around first of the year. I think that timeline is a bit quick... Unless there is a reason they want rid of him quickly, it will take a month or so to complete UCMJ punishment. Even if they initiate a chapter in conjunction with UCMJ all of his appointments will take a while. This time of year they're busy with all of the holidays and DONSA's taking up some of their office time. Feb to march is more realistic. But yeah...if they're going to wash their hands of him it won't take too terribly long. Is close enough to get hit with simple failure to adapt and get the boot? I guess then at least he might escape without a DUI on his record, not that it will make him less likely to do it again. |
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Posted: 11/2/2015 4:46:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is close enough to get hit with simple failure to adapt and get the boot? I guess then at least he might escape without a DUI on his record, not that it will make him less likely to do it again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With the above update, he'll be chaptered and back home around first of the year. I think that timeline is a bit quick... Unless there is a reason they want rid of him quickly, it will take a month or so to complete UCMJ punishment. Even if they initiate a chapter in conjunction with UCMJ all of his appointments will take a while. This time of year they're busy with all of the holidays and DONSA's taking up some of their office time. Feb to march is more realistic. But yeah...if they're going to wash their hands of him it won't take too terribly long. Is close enough to get hit with simple failure to adapt and get the boot? I guess then at least he might escape without a DUI on his record, not that it will make him less likely to do it again. He's past the point of a chapter 11 (Entry Level Performance/Conduct). That's only within the first 180 days of active service. There's a chapter 13 (Performance Related) if they're feeling kind or a 14-12a (minor misconduct) or 14-12c (serious misconduct) as well if they're not being so nice. It's entirely up to the CoC... They're the proverbial "DA" in this situation and will have the option to punish and/or separate the Soldier at their discretion (within the confines of the UCMJ....and with JAG review). I'd be fairly confident this became an SIR and the BN CDR is aware of the incident....so the NJP may be withheld at that level (Field Grade Art 15) followed by a separation initiated by the Company CoC (possibly under the direction of the BN CDR. Of course this is all speculation. It could result in an Art 15 and slap on the dick if civilian LE never gets involved. The worst thing he did is admit to drinking (Underage drinking will result in trouble...but since driving was involved it's more likely going to result in separation)..... |
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Posted: 11/7/2015 1:13:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. It bothers me that he's full of shit too. A few beers earlier that night, my ass. They were both plowed. Mark my words. Will be interesting to hear what the BAC was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. This. It bothers me that he's full of shit too. A few beers earlier that night, my ass. They were both plowed. Mark my words. Will be interesting to hear what the BAC was. It doesnt bother me. We were all young troops doing stupid things at one time. Eventually we grow up to be hypocrites on computer forums. Tell your son to be truthful and sincere about straightening out his act and hopefully the Army will keep a good troop. Best of luck to him and you. Boy the shit we pulled years ago. |
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Posted: 11/10/2015 12:58:53 AM EDT
[#27]
From what you described, I don't see any civilian LE involvement.
Blood draw was by medical personnel, and there's no proof it was within a certain time period of the crash. In Virginia, no DUI would hold up with that evidence. They literally would not even consider charging him with DUI. Whether military LE can/will do anything with it, I have no idea. |
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Posted: 11/11/2015 7:16:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. If an NCO took him to the hospital for a blood draw, I can say with a high amount of certainty that it was the base hospital and that they notified us (MPs). |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 3:27:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It doesnt bother me. We were all young troops doing stupid things at one time. Eventually we grow up to be hypocrites on computer forums. Tell your son to be truthful and sincere about straightening out his act and hopefully the Army will keep a good troop. Best of luck to him and you. Boy the shit we pulled years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No civvy cops involved? No military cops involved? Just the probable cause blood draw and the admission of drinking? Most likely case company grade UCMJ for underage drinking. 14 extra duty, 14 days restriction, lose a pay grade, lose some pay. Worst case, the unit spins it into a DUI and kicks him out of the Army. Really depends on unit and post. This. It bothers me that he's full of shit too. A few beers earlier that night, my ass. They were both plowed. Mark my words. Will be interesting to hear what the BAC was. It doesnt bother me. We were all young troops doing stupid things at one time. Eventually we grow up to be hypocrites on computer forums. Tell your son to be truthful and sincere about straightening out his act and hopefully the Army will keep a good troop. Best of luck to him and you. Boy the shit we pulled years ago. No shit I knew at least a dozen guys who got nothing more than a slap on the wrist from an E-9 to an E-3 This new PC shit is pushing things a bit too far. |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 7:20:18 AM EDT
[#30]
I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone.
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:40:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone. yep. One of our companies has chaptered 15 guys in the last few months. Offenses run the gamut from drinking to big stuff involving drugs |
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Posted: 11/24/2015 10:56:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Do your son a favor and don't attempt to communicate with his command. They hate dealing with this stupid shit as it is.
Your son is expected to be able to accept and deal with the consequences of his own actions. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 9:44:22 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone. |
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Posted: 11/25/2015 11:00:54 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those days are gone AND guys are getting booted for thier past transgressions ...years after the fact Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone. I just had to go and vouch for an old jr that had an ARI 5 years ago. He actually made it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 7:55:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just had to go and vouch for an old jr that had an ARI 5 years ago. He actually made it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone. I just had to go and vouch for an old jr that had an ARI 5 years ago. He actually made it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 8:13:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Hopefully he's been a good to above average trooper.
He needs to get his act together and come up with some good points when he gets in front of his CDR for the article 15. When he gets his chance to speak for himself. He should bring up his strong points (good pt score and so on). Then if he wants to stay in he should only ask for a chance to stay Tell them he's willing to start all over and continue to give it his all. It's been along time but as a Squad Leader I had to go to bat for the ones I thought deserved it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2015 9:10:27 PM EDT
[#37]
All things being equal, without additional drinking, BAC drops 0.015- 0.020 an hour. OP's son was waaaaaasted at the time of the wreck.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 2:35:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All things being equal, without additional drinking, BAC drops 0.015- 0.020 an hour. OP's son was waaaaaasted at the time of the wreck. Yup. We still aren't getting a solid timeline, but some assumptions can be made. Accident occurs. Joes flip car, return... somewhere. Not sure how they would have made it on post. Word gets out about it? How? What kind of delays are we talking? Even if someone saw it happen, and rats them out - we're still probably looking at 30 more minutes to communication to chain of command. an hour to get the guy to the hospital for blood draw., another half hour admin wait nonsense. That's a .7. Truth is, we're probably talking the next morning, and at least 5 hours later. The good thing here is he learned a lesson and nobody had to die to teach it. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 1:53:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks to everyone for the information and discussion. He got an article 15 with a punishment of two weeks extra duty and restricted to post. No pay deduction and no plans to boot him, as far as he knows. He actually told us today he's scheduled to deploy in April.
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Posted: 11/27/2015 4:50:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to everyone for the information and discussion. He got an article 15 with a punishment of two weeks extra duty and restricted to post. No pay deduction and no plans to boot him, as far as he knows. Good news. Thanks for closing the loop with an update. Just a company grade article 15. He may have had part of the punishment(pay/rank) suspended for 180ish days so he has to really keep his nose clean to avoid the unit vacating the suspension. Anyhow, I know plenty of good kids that have rebounded from company grade article 15s. Hope he learned his lesson about drinking and driving. |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 5:00:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to everyone for the information and discussion. He got an article 15 with a punishment of two weeks extra duty and restricted to post. No pay deduction and no plans to boot him, as far as he knows. He actually told us today he's scheduled to deploy in April. thats the best outcome for him. thanks for the update |
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Posted: 11/27/2015 7:54:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow. That's actually pretty impressive. Did he at least buy you dinner? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I dont want to be the bearer of bad news, but the new Army is not very forgiving. Guys are getting kicked out at the drop of a hat these days. Just a few years ago a guy could fail a drug test or get a DUI and just get busted down and some extra duty- those days are long gone. I just had to go and vouch for an old jr that had an ARI 5 years ago. He actually made it. There was about a dozen guys sticking up for him. It was all via mail and email. Tremendous guy. He finally received an award for valor that has been kicked around for about 3 years, and his hearing was about 3 months after. I really didn't think it would happen, but he stayed in the Army. |
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Posted: 11/28/2015 12:15:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks to everyone for the information and discussion. He got an article 15 with a punishment of two weeks extra duty and restricted to post. No pay deduction and no plans to boot him, as far as he knows. He actually told us today he's scheduled to deploy in April. Glad you are a good parent and raised a good son who is serving during a time of war. I hope he learned his lesson and will be a better Soldier and battle buddy for it. He must have been good at his job and very teachable for him to only get 2 weeks of extra duty. Someone went to bat for him and made it go away. |
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