Like the title says. I just have questions that I have had for a while. I'm doing military, just unsure, or confused. I have done extensive amount of reading and research, but don't really have SOF people to talk to, because they have been there and done that. There's only so much I can learn from books or Internet things. Tv obviously is bad besides documentaries. This isn't really a lightly chosen option. It's serious consideration, I know the risks and I accept them.
I've had this desire for years. I need to get the ball rolling as I graduated highshool 3 months ago.
If there aren't any SOF guys here, where would you reccomend me go? Shadowspear.net, QuietProfessinals, Armyrangers forum?

Also all active and vets, thanks for your service. Everytime I see a uniform, I thank them. It means a lot to me for their sacrifice.

Good luck op. The answers you get in GD....

Well you could pick up a copy of the magazine SOF. If nothing else shoot the editor an email or snail mail 'em

Youre not going to find a lot of takers.

there is plenty of open source info out there. Hell wikipedia is good enough given your lack of direction and shaky level of commitment. You gotta go to bootcamp first and most of the people whose brains you want to pick didnt have the luxury of going on the internet and asking to have their hand held.

the only thing you need to decide is:

Do I want to be a Marine, soldier, sailor, or airman?  Because that is what you will be if you make it into special ops and that is what you will be if you end up as an attrition statistic. That is all you need to be worrying about right now.

Everyone wants to be an elite warrior gear queer but nobody wants to sign any fucking paper work.

check out the SCAR threads, there are a few SF commenting in them

What are your specific question?

MSG R
18Z50

SOF Intelligence, 11 years..What do you want to know?

This!!! I don't get all the youngsters these days (and I'm only 29) that go around asking all these specific questions. Even if you do get some of your questions answered, there is really no way for YOU to validate them and it will only make you wonder more and ultimately it will paint a picture if your mind that is the furthest from reality. And by the time you get into what you think you are prepared for based on your visual image you have in your head, it will end up mind-fucking you into submission. And that will almost always lead to failure or quitting.

I appreciate you wanting to serve, but if it really is something you want and you honestly think the SOF community will benefit from you (not the other way around), then you don't need to ask specific questions on internet forums. Less internet time and more PT is a good start! Perhaps go Army (combat MOS), Airborne first.....RASP, Green Platoon, SFQC. Get your feet wet in the military first and that is the best way to find out most of your questions. Make sure it is something you truly want to do so that you don't waste your time or the qualification / training schools time and money.

Best of luck to you....

Thank you for the advice. I have taken that seriously and that is a very good point, which I stated above. I can read or research all I want, but I don't know what it is really like. I do pt seriously, I am getting there.

I just want to get my life started. My goals if I was to go army would be 11x option with airborne. Stay at that for a few years and see what I want to do, talk to actual Army SOF guys, and decide what I want from there. Devil dogs post at the end made me lol, but it was a good insightful post as well. I never thought about that for years. I don't want to be on a fucking ship all the time, no offense navy.


If I was to do navy, idk what the hell I would do. I mean the most you do is shoot a laser shotgun or handgun. That kin of sucks. I don't know if I answered my branch decision, but I think I have. That narrows it down to possibly Army or Marines.

It all sucks until you're done. Then it's cool to remember everything but the suck.

Recognize the hazards of your chosen profession. And remember,  it'll suck.

ETA

SOCNET is the place you're looking for. Read everything before you make a post and for God's sake, make an introduction post before you do anything else.

I know that whole heartidly. I never asked there and only here for actual SOF guys. I've read and read, literally. I'm gonna stop talking now bc I feel like a fucking attention whore for some reason.

OP, I hemmed and hawed for a few years until I joined up.  DO NOT DO THAT!!  Just join up, bust your ass and then the worm will turn for you.  Pick the right branch and job that could possibly funnel you into some type of SOF capacity.  

Some years back I got to talk to a Sergeant Major from Special Forces.  He said the best way to get into SF is to get Airborne in your initital contract.  Do your time in the 82nd Airborne Division.  Build a good rep with your bosses and work hard there in your first enlistment.  Then try out for the Rangers, really bust your ass there and after a few years go for SF selection.  He said by then you'll be a proven and mature soldier and more than ready for SF.   All that takes is hard work and keeping your eyes on the prize.  

Best of luck to you.

This, I couldn't have said it better.

Free

So let me get this straight OP, you ask to talk to 'SOF' because you want to know what it's like and then a 18Z responds to your ridiculous request and you ignore him.  

You need to sell your air soft gear, put that money in savings and go talk to the damn recruiter and join.  Quit wanting to talk to 'SOF' and put your money where your mouth is and become one.

Sir, I do not have any airsoft gear and have never even played airsoft. I apologize for coming off that way I and I truly did not intend to come off that way. I had a few SOF guys PM me and they helped me.

I should have posted an update as I had my questions answered. My apologies. I am working towards my goal at this time. Thankyou

23 years in SF. Email me if you want. Get yourself in shape. Serious shape, or don't bother. You will need help with this, and anything less is guaranteed to make you a statistic. Whatever you decide to do- SF, Ranger, MARSOC, SEAL, AFSOC- TALK to someone who has been in or is doing that job and make darn sure you know what you are getting yourself into. The nature of training and dedication to serve in any of the units leaves little room for bullshit and being half-assed in any way. HINT- MOST recruiters know fuck all about this stuff. Thats why they are recruiters and not on a team or whatever- they came from lesser places in whatever branch of service they are in (in most cases). If you don't want to dive head first directly into SOF then there are other MOS's and positions in the military that will set you up for success at the time you decide to make that commitment, it just depends on what you think you may want to do. Also, if I come across as a dick in this explanation, I apologize, but it is what it is.

No you don't seem like a dick. I appreciate the advice from all of you. My goal is to be in competitive top tier of my class. Thank for the direct response. I prefer it that way.

      The best way currently into SF is to opt for the REP63 or 18X contract. As a point of interest, since it's inception in 1986, the overall pass rate at SFAS is 33%, the overall pass rate at the Q is 75%  Typically 11% of those who pass SFAS chose not to attend the SFQC.  Roughly 3000 men attend SFAS per year, typically 101 men VW within the first 5 days.  I hope these fact, take from a informational PowerPoint from TY 2009 were helpful in your decision making process.

MSG R
18Z50
Nous Defions

I'm an old timer - my MOS was llB4S. I went thru jump school & Training Group in 1968 - straight out of a leg aviation unit.    
On your first enlistment volunteer for Airborne and either the 82nd or the 101st, then go to Ranger school.  
After 4 yrs you will have a good idea of what the military is all about and whether or not you want to stick with it.  
IF the answer is yes, then volunteer for SF.  
"It ain't no pick-nik" getting there, But is sure is worth the effort!    
Sarge

The only advice I can give you is to not look at the Marines for SF.

Easier to do it via Army. Guy I work with is Marines reserve and in awesome shape and they are giving him hell for any SF billet.

I didn't check this thread for a while as the last post was my own. I saw there were replies, and I really appreciate them.

Also, yes Marines are kick ass and all but Army or Navy seem to have better SOF potential possibly in my views.

All I know is this, I could go on some long ass chat about my past or interests, but you guys probably dont care and dont have time for it. Those interests and childhood upbringing wanted me to be a soldier. However, the Army isnt that water based, and I really like swimming, and firearms. One thing I sacrifice, if I go with Navy SOF ( which ive been training for quite some time now), is that I'm a sailor over a soldier first. When I think about it, Navy SOF is ultimately what I want, but being a swabbie if I DOR or get medically dropped would suck big time. I know Army SF has dive teams, but I dont know how much diving or water work they do. I would rather be shooting guns rather than doing stuff on a sub or ship.

Being an infantryman with jump wings would be really great, and give me a stepping stone, while having my life on track, but I wonder if I'm just choosing the safe option over the one I truly want. My whole life I tried to appease people or listen to others. That or people expect you to go to college, work a 9 to 5 job, come home to a wife and kids, retire, and then die. I dont want that in my life. I dont want an ordinary lifestyle. I want to know I had a damn good impact on it via inner pride. No one else needs to know, just me. A lifestyle of pushing your mind to the fucking limit is kick ass. Breaking mental barriers you thought you couldnt overcome, but still do it, is very rewarding to your mind and body.

Just based on your last reply, go Navy. If that's what you truly want then don't settle for anything else.

Make sure you research what each SOF unit actually does. Army SF is much more then just shooting guns and doing raids. If that's what you want then either Rangers or SEALs is what you're looking for.

As for being a sailor if you fail the answer is easy, don't fail. In the end, with the majority of things in life, the risk is always worth the reward and you can't be afraid to fail.

I have read a few books ( 5 or 6 total ) on Army SF and a few on the Ranger regiment. Army SF is UW, FID, DA, Recon, and a few others with FID as a main focus. Their motto says it all really. It speaks freedom.

The Ranger Regiment are basically super soldiers with SOF jobs in Direct Action, Recon, and a few others.

I like shooting and raids alot. Recon is important too along with water operations such as over the beach recon and a few others. SEALS can do some FID, but its not really their specialty.


Alot of my friends or family are encouraging me to do the safe route in my mind as it gives me a steady job, and then I can decide what I want. I know they do this out of concern, but this is the trap I dont want to fall into, and haven't fallen into because I listened to myself.

RangerJoe11, Thank you for the answer. that 2nd sentence about settling, I agree with. Its the reason why I feel the risk of failure would be worth it. If I didnt do the Navy SOF route, I just know I would regret it 100 percent.

Look at the Navy's Special Warfare Combatant Craft Crewman program.  They are some bad mofos.  I ran into some of those guys a few years back and they seemed like really good people.

so you read some books and you like shooting and raids, and need to do recon and waterborne ops



how about you join the army as a communications specialist, then do SFAS when the time is right. best of both worlds.

Well, essentially yes. I was a freshman in high school and found out about SOF through documentaries, and books. How else was I supposed to find out about them? I dont understand what is wrong with that at all. I dont need to do anything at all. It was a want and not a need, to do water based operations. I didnt seem to come off like an ass or anything, my apologies.

Maybe I felt like I need to do NSW to satisfy my ego or something. If I dont do NSW, I feel like my life would be in shambles for some reason. Now that I think about that, it seems ridiculous I would beat myself up over something like this, and it could be my ego. It seems that NSW would be my identity and I dont like that.  Hell, maybe what I most likely need to do, is get my feet wet in the military first like some of you have suggested. At that point the only option is army because I am a soldier first, and then I go 11x with airborne option. I need to figure out ego over intuition situation and figure out if its what I truly want, or I am forcing myself in order to make myself think I know what I want, because in reality, I dont know what I want. I truly dont, besides infantry and airborne option. That I would like alot. Then my ego comes into play and fucks with my mind.

EDIT: I have trained for a long time/ I have improved alot on my conditioning. So for my to change my goal/ focus, it feels that if I either wasted my time, and I dont really want to quit on my goal, as I do not want to be a quitter by any means.

I would like to know, what made you choose force recon, or the marines in general over the army? What drew you to SOF specifically for you, force recon. I dont really want to step on your toes or anything. I dont know that much about Marine SOF at all.
What is your lifestyle like compared to conventional marine forces? If I sound like a dumb ass, my apologies.

 

just remember, if you join the army has 11X and you wash out of SFAS you going to wish you had a good specialty. not many jobs for infantrymen in the outside world. which is why you should do a technical expertise, then do SFAS when the time is right. so if you dont get selected you have a MOS with good civilian parallels.

Shoes, yes a secure job sounds good and all, but thats the thing im trying to avoid here. I dont want to do the safe option that will guarantee me a job when I would rather be infantry or something else. Im not living my life for others, I'm living for myself and I want to do something combat related, end of story.

Caveman, is the SOF potential for Marines as good as Army today? I know it was not years ago, but I have heard that has changed alot. That is one thing that has possibly shyed me away from the Marines. Well that, and my whole family encouraged it, so, by nature I was rebellious and wanted to do my own thing as my own cousin is a marine aircraft technician.


One thing I do not like about NSW or SEALs specifically is the whole Hollywood thing now. It really just bothers me, and I wouldnt feel comfortable with that. Being what they call a "quiet professional" is much better in my mind and is what I would prefer really.

Ok. Just remember old shoes here when you're wearing pt belts cutting grass. Have you thought about working with UAV? you can bomb the shit out of people  hundreds of miles away, and pull cover for SOF guys on the ground, and then make triple what they do when you get out...it's cool to be gung ho, but guranteed you'll be burned out before you know it.

 

That's a complete and utter load of shit.
Jobs and training are there for those who seek it. They just don't come with the job for free.
I've never once looked back on my time in the army, deployed or in garrison,  and with any sort of seriousness said 'Man I really wish I'd been a pogue"

caveman thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

Shoes, I understand your concern, but I really dont care about skills outside of the military right now. If I dont do this, I will regret it.

I think I will be going to talk to the Army again possibly. 11x with airborne option as a great stepping stone for any SOF, but I have jump wings. Jumping out of planes kicks ass.

Also, if you end up going Army look into the Ranger contract. I can't remember exactly but I think it's called option 40 or some shit. It would be a great opportunity to gain experience prior to going SF if you choose that. You will go through infantry basic, airborne and then RASP/RIP/ROP whatever the hell they call it now. It's basically a ball buster and some tactics training. If you fail you will go to the 82nd or other airborne unit. If you pass then you go to the REGT and eventually Ranger school. Search the Internet for more info or talk to a recruiter.

The Ranger REGT is the Army's premier raid force and they get to work with a lot of SOF and do some bad ass shit. You won't be in the water but you will do a lot of Direct Action.

There is also the 18X contract which sets you up to go through basic and airborne and then begin training for SFAS. If you fail then you head to the 82nd if you pass then you go through the Q course.

I wouldn't just sign a airborne contract. Especially since you have your eyes set on SOF.

With that said, you have your dream of being in NSW, go that route and don't let anyone talk you out of it. Just make sure and do your research that it is exactly what you want. Don't be scared to fail.

Thanks Rangerjoe. I really appreciate it alot. I talked to a former Ranger Batt. guy ( about a year ago) that is now a recruiter and he told me some really neat stuff. It seems that like you said its just that the Ranger batt is the premier infantry basically with SOF operations. I would have to change my swimming to rucking and that is kind of demotivating as I have made very good progress from where I started close to 7 months ago.


EDIT for  Update 10/18/14: To be honest I dont even want to go talk to a army recruiter for some reason. I guess its not what I really want. All that stuff is great and all, but I dont want to quit on the progress I have made so far. Why would I quit when the NSW community was my motivation to even graduate highschool and get my life straightened away. The NSW motivation is the whole reason where I am at right now and how much better I am doing in my life. Im not at the best part, but its way better than the sheltered depressed kid I was 4-5 years ago. IF I didnt have that motivation or drive to keep on going... I dont know where I would be. So why the fuck would I quit or change training which has progressed my life so much?! Maybe im just really impatient since Im coming from couch potato status to athlete. I swim very well and run good but my runs need the most improvement. So do my pull ups and push ups. My situps are squared away in the high 90s, and my swim time needs to come down a bit in order for a good score.

However, I just need to get a NSW mentor as I feel that would be a big milestone for me. The problem is, my run progression is stagnant and bad right now. I dont know what it is. Im not fat, at all. I have never really conditioned my body to run this much( hence the former couch potato as a kid), and played sports only in my younger years and was really good at soccer, but I just stopped.

where are you having trouble with your run? Is it a distance/endurance problem, or is it a speed problem?

I think both. My speed is slow as i try to equalize my run and have a steady stream of energy and can do my best, but keep that at an overall efficient level through out the run. If i go faster i get gassed out, and if i go slower, its basically a damn half run which is silly. I need a way to improve both. I dont want a quick fix, but something that will really boost me. I think I need to be doing high intensity, interval, and long slow distance all together as right now I am only focusing on trying to run 6 miles at a good pace. Maybe that is the issue besides " run harder".

Try swim sprints to increase your VO2 max (lung capacity).  Mixing up your training is a good way to beat a plateau and keep from getting bored.

ok, try focusing each run on something specific. 5k runs you should be doing a tempo run, and going for speed (not balls to the wall necessarily, but decently fast) Tempo runs should have a time goal you are trying to meet. 5-7 MILE runs should be slightly slower and you should work on endurance, and busting through mental barriers. If you're getting gassed, you should set a distance goal for yourself. Say you usually have to stop and walk or slow down at 3 miles. Your next goal should be 3.5, and then 4, etc. Don't be scared to pull the trigger and barf. Just KEEP GOING afterwards! If you're hitting a plateau, head off to the track and do a couple miles worth of balls out sprint drills. 2 or 3 iteration sets of 800,400,200,100 with a minute or two of rest in between, or a couple miles of "fast lap/ slow lap" once a week sandwiched between your normal runs are actually really great for busting through plateaus.

All of these are going to take time. The most important parts are
1. Know your no-shit standard you'll have to meet. Alot of dudes sell themselves short because they either don't know the standard and set their own that is ridiculous or they think they have to be way the fuck above it. Know your no shit goal, and set realistic milestones on the way there.

2. Recovery and diet. Your mental gains are made during the run when you crush a goal you set for yourself. Your physical gains are made in your recovery sleep. Eat well, and sleep well, and take care of your body!

Thank you for the advice Pistolero. I will start doing that now instead of just a 6 miler.

There are Navy SEAL forums you can join and will be more help than Arfcom. Google it.

As previously stated, check out the Ranger contract. That is the route I went but it didn't go as planned for me.

I tried to do the Ranger contract, made it through basic back in 2000, went straight to jump school, upon graduation went straight to Regiment. This is where everything fell apart.

When we arrived, we were instructed that we will have a few "Zero" weeks (basically you get smoked and it doesn't count for anything) until we have until guys to fill the slots. Fast forward a few weeks and we are still getting smoked, ect., and again told just one more zero week and "who wants to quite?" I had had enough as by then it was almost Christmas and being the big bitch I was, I wanted to go home so I raised my hand along with a dozen other guys. After that, I got orders to For Drum, handed a plane ticket and the rest is history.

I never did get another chance to tryout for Rangers nor did I get a Ranger slot as those were few are far between in a line unit, but I digress.

To make a long story short, the Army doesn't last forever, make the best of it and sign up for the most high speed shit you can. Never quit, this is important as your body can handle a hell of a lot more than your mind thinks it can.

I have been apart of sealswcc.com forum group for a few years now. That is my main source of information for proper training, but I came here to speak to SOF including you, which I got and greatly appreciate. Sealswcc.com has alot of either hopefuls or guys with contracts/ working with SEAL mentors. There are maybe 5-6 official guys I know on there that are SEALs. However, they dont really pop up much, and im more of a lurker than a poster.

evo, thanks for the insight on your DOR and why you did it. You still made it there and had an attempt which is far better than most in my opinion.

Enough posting and chit chat.  Go to the recruiter, sign on the line, and raise your right hand.  Reopen this post after you've either succeeded or failed.


MSG R
18Z50

I can only speak on one thing:

MARSOC is always holding selection and assessment courses. They need guys. You dont need to be any particular MOS but i can tell you being infantry helps because you'll already know the basics. But like said above, you need to be in tip top shape and being an excellent swimmer helps. In fact its required for Recon and Marsoc. One of the their requirements is 2nd or 1st class swim qual. When you go to BRC, swimming is the first thing you will do. Dive school is even worse. ITC im sure has some sort of swimming in it as well. The best advice i can give you coming from an Infantry Marine, is dont go SOF right away. It's like turning 16 and your daddy buying you a Ferrari as your first car. Besides, atleast in the Marines, you really cant go SOF right away anyway. Usually at most, you can get contract Recon indoc and if you fail that you get 0311 instead, which is the best MOS anyway . Once you get out of Boot camp, graduate SOI and whatever your MOS school is, then start looking into MARSOC assessment and selection. Last thing you wanna do is fail A&S because you didnt know what you were getting yourself into. Atleast if you go infantry, and you cant hack it there, you'll change your mind about going MARSOC.

I cant really speak about any of SOF groups but i can tell you they all have a different mission. Find guys who are in and were in who can give you a better perspective. None of this shit is like what you see on TV, movies, video games or youtube videos.

EDIT: Also if you like to shoot shit and do raids, well Infantry does that pretty good and on a larger scale than SOF. It's usually balls to the wall, here i am coming to fuck your shit up and i dont care if you know im coming.

My swim buddy who made it to being a SEAL, told me one thing......

If you're not willing to die in order to win, you already lost.

100% effort 100% of the time.

Disclaimer: I tried but washed in pre-BUD/s and did so based on a stupid girl's desire to divorce if I went all the way.

Another buddy who eventually made it to SEALs, he told me that if yopu want to be the best.......start with being the best in EVERYTHING you do.
That means study harder,work harder,train harder etc starting in bootcamp and then your MOS then so on and so forth.

I just want to let you guys know this Friday I am planning on swearing into DEP for a few months with the Army( ship date of February to April hopefully). My contract I want is 11x option 4 ( infantry with jumpschool) . I told my recruiters I would settle for nothing less.

I appreciate all the advice you guys have given me and it gave me time to think. I was going to sign with the Navy a week ago, but felt something wasnt right. I was anxious and my mind was essentially screaming at me not to do it. So I halted my enlistment process before MEPS ( thank god) with the Navy and felt like I dodged a bullet or something.  So, I asked myself, " Would I rather be a soldier or sailor first?" I said soldier in the end, all the time. Being a soldier is something that interests me more and fits what I want to do with my career/ goal aspirations. It gives me a great stepping stone into the military life, and allows me to figure out which SOF unit in the army I want to shoot for, and give me life experience. Like devildog specifically said, " Everyone wants to be a highspeed gear queer but no one wants to sign any fucking paperwork." That and the basis of either being a soldier, sailor, airman, or marine made me think. That made me decide to go with the Army. Even though Im nervous, I am much more confident I made the right decision. I would much rather prove myself and work for years in order to earn the chance if possible.

My goals are to improve my PT scores to 300 apft level by the end of basic/ before jump school. After talking to a few of you specifically, my odds of ending up in the 82nd airborne or the 173rd is very very high, along with two 82nd airborne guys I have talked to in person to know the assignment percentage. From there, if I get assigned to those units... I want to be the best soldier( in a manner that is not showboating) I can and earn a shot at the selection process of whatever SOF I decide to go for. Hell, maybe I change my mind and want to stay in a conventional unit.  All I know is that I want infantry and airborne in my contract, IN WRITING. From there, I can decide.

I dont want to do 11x option 40, because the only people who make it through RASP , are one who are sure they want the Ranger Regiment. Me, Im not sure and that is a waste of time for me and the Army.

So, I am swearing in this Friday if everything goes to plan. If 11x option 4 is in my contract specifically IN WRITING, I will sign. A slight downside is that there is no enlistment bonus or jumpschool bonus at this time according to my recruiters. They apparently have to call the ROC in order to get a slot for me. So, even though its not a big deal, it would be nice to get a enlistment bonus of some sort. However, it is not a detrimental factor. According to some research I did, alot of guys demanded enlistment bonuses with their 11x option 4 or option 40 contracts and they got them. I am wondering if I should do the same? At the same time I dont want to ruin my chances of getting in and losing an 11x option 4 contract entirely.

Thanks for all the help and guidance. I really appreciate it.

Why not 18X?
I would also think long and hard about getting a Ranger or 18X contract. Just out of curiosity what makes you so unsure of a Ranger or 18X contract? I ask because early on you were all about SOF and now it seems you may be getting nervous and apprehensive.

I will let you know those feelings are absolutely normal. Anyone who says different is lying or doesn't understand what exactly he got himself into.  The 82nd is cool and has its place but your other options offer you things you cannot get in conventional Army. The hours, days and years of sucking through selections and training are worth every second in one of those units.

Just don't leave anything on the table that you may regret later.

Good luck.  Chase the dream.  

Check out With Winning in Mind by Lanny Basham.