Recently, I ran a call involving a man trapped beneath a tractor that was on fire.  We arrived on scene and put out the fire, but unfortunately, by the time that we got there the man had significant burning over his entire body and had already died from the fire.  His wife was with him before the tractor flipped over and was the one that called it in.  She stayed on the scene the entire time without the ability to do anything to help and was understandably hysterical.  The police and medics were the ones that dealt directly with her, but you could hear her throughout the call.

Since that point, my mind keeps returning to the image of the man underneath the tractor after the flames had been extinguished and his wife.  This is happening multiple times every hour, not just once or twice a day.  There is no rhyme or reason to it and it will occur even when I am thinking about something completely unrelated.  I keep thinking about how painful and hopeless it would be to die in that manner and how horrific it would be to watch a loved one in that circumstance without the power or ability to come to the aid of your loved one and be forced to just watch.

This is not the first time that I have been around someone that has passed away.  I have run calls where someone passes away at the scene from injuries sustained in an auto accident or where someone passes away as a result of a medical emergency.  I have been around family and loved ones that were at the scene and watching everything that was going on.  However, with those previous calls, my mind did not keep returning to those scenes.  With that being said, this is the first time that I have run a call where the person actually passed away due to injuries from the fire itself and not from smoke inhalation or other associated hazard.

I will add that I am a volunteer and have been running calls for approximately 8 years, but I know that I  have not run the volume of calls that most of the individuals in this forum have run.  However, when you have come across a call that bothered you, how long did it take before you got over the call?  Is there anything that you were able to do to help speed up the process?  Logically, I know that there was not anything that we could have done differently that would have changed the outcome, but this logic has not made it possible for my mind to stop returning to it.  Thanks for the help and advice.

I've had a few calls that stayed with me a long time. One was a guy that put a 12 gauge in his mouth and pulled the trigger in front of his wife and lived. Another was a CIDs call with a young guy that took a nap with his 6 month old son and woke up to find him dead. I saw the picture of the shotgun guys face for years after the call and I heard the guy with the CIDs baby screams for a long time. Both faded after a few years.

See if your agency has a CISM team that can give you a stress defusing or possibly a debriefing.  It may be part of an EAP program if your agency has one.

Had the same thing as oldmikey, will never forget the guys mustache, but thankfully it hasn't  bothered me.  

Do they offer you EAP? "Employee assistance program" where everyone on scene talks about it w a shrink. Never hurts to talk about it.

I can tell you that with 22 years in LE that you never really "get" over calls like that and when they stop affecting you its time to pack it in. You however can get the to the point where you accept what happened was nothing that you could have prevented or controlled DESPITE everything you did to affect the outcome, which it sound like if the case.

Only you know how you react to and are affected by stuff like this. If you need help get help, but only you know when that will be.

There are places, sounds, smells etc that momentarily bring me back to incidents but I'm to the point where I can shake those creeping feelings off and continue to do what needs to be done.

Watch out for cumulative effect PTSD. The overwhelming majority will be affected by it in and due to our careers, just don't let it define you.The good thing about LE/Fire/EMS now vs when I started is that there is usually a mechanism to get help that does not "black ball" you.

If its not getting easier to deal with every day, even if its a tiny bit, make sure you get to someone to talk too.

J-

Some calls will stick with you, and the only thing you can hope for is to do a little better each day.  Talking it out with somebody can help a lot, whether it be a counselor or just a close friend.  Sometimes it just takes time.

Don't bottle it up inside.  Talk about it with your peers and a professional if you feel the need.  Talking about it here may help too.  

Think about the doctors who work on these people.  They get them in the ER gore and all and then they have to open them up even more, fix the problem, and stitch them back up.  If you think it's gory on scene, you should see the ER.  

A friend of mine once told me there is a reason cops, firemen, medical personnel, nurses, and doctors have a sick sense of humor.  We are emotional beings and when we see something bad, we can either laugh or we can cry.  Since crying doesn't do any good, we laugh about things that others find horrific.  

That's what we do.  We deal with trauma.  It sucks sometimes but if we don't do it...who will?

OP look up and read Emotional Survival for Law Enforcement (pertains to EMS and Fire too) by Kevin Gilmartin PhD. It is actually required reading at my PD. Quick easy read and is quite helpful. You will recognize yourself and allllll of your co-workers and public safety friends in the pages.

And if you have never seen an autopsy, see if you can sit in one. You will realize after the the body is just a vessel for the being. That actually helped when I was in the DB and was at a couple of autopsies a month.

J-

That was part of our academy.

PTSD is no joke. I have carried a lot of baggage over the years. Talking is important whether it's with a CISM trained person or co-worker. Don't bottle that up.

We (as Paramedics, Fire and law Enforcement) see the underbelly of society however we witness some of the worst, death and disease and what humans are capable of. Horrible accidents and intentional acts. It weighs on  us. Reach out and don't be afraid to ask for help. That can lead to depression and anxiety. Look up "triggers" regarding PTSD. They can be visual, auditory, olfactory etc.

I worked a pediatric double homicide (father killed his two kids) and it stuck with me for years. One (18 month old) was in a high chair and for 8-9 months I couldn't feed my son in his high chair, because I saw the kids face who still had food in their mouth when I went to pass a tube, and it really screwed me up.
One of my triggers is the smell of concrete dust or wet cement. That olfactory response brings me right back to the pit at ground zero. my entire body gets goose bumps, heart races and palms sweat. brings back intrusive images. There is no one specific thing that works. Take time to discuss with professionals and coworkers. It may fade but never go away. There are ways of dealing with it.
One of the things to try if it gets bad is called grounding, Look around you,

find 5 things you can see
find 4 things you can touch
find 3 things you can hear
find 2 things you can smell
find 1 thing you can taste

this helps me when my 9/11 stressors hit me bad.

edit, spelling

If horrible things impact you, it means you are a caring human being. Others have said to talk it out... I recommend that. If your agency has EAP, look into it for a variety of reasons.

I have the same problem. There are a few that I remember often. I'll be doing something and the images will pop in my mind. They don't stay long.

Ran a call where a man and his wife were on a motorcycle. It started to rain so they stopped at an over pass on I-75. They were sitting on the bike and a car swerved over and hit them from behind.  The wife on the back of the bike went up and over the car. Her husband was knocked about 150 ft into the tree line.

I was on rescue that day. I arrived on scene and go the woman got her packaged to load and go. She was actually not in bad shape. She keep asking about her husband. I went to the other rescue unit and saw his body in the tree line covered. He was killed on impact.

I told her he would be transported on the other unit. That was all I told her. I did not want her tripping out on me in the back of the unit.

It was her birthday. They were going out for dinner. The guy that hit them was texting when he ran off the road in the rain. I remember that day for some reason and it being her birthday and her loosing her husband on her birthday and that memory being with her every birthday she has.

I have become way more aware of how fragile life can be. I lost my brother to a car accident. Just like the many I've ran. I can see his death in my mind to. He was ejected and vehicle rolled over across his chest and lower body. I still wake up dreaming that I can't breath. Dreaming of my brother

You learn to live with thoughts and block them by keeping busy. Because if you stay idle is when they get you.

1st time I've ever spoken about this

My best advice, which is probably not very good, is realize that this life has no guarantees we all are going to die someday and most of us will not get to choose how and who is present. I imagine many of the hero's of this world have died in an agonizing/terrible/not so heroic way. Make the best of your life cause you never know when its going to end.

I'm sorry that sounds like a very rough call to respond to.

Sadly in my case the thing that distracts my wandering mind from one bad incident is ending up responding to another or some other powerful stress.

Hobbies and relaxation are great but are only temporary, my advice is to discuss your feelings with someone who can help you understand them, not just relate and say "shit, that's rough".

There are some mental health workers that specialize in treating first responders, if your employer can't refer you to one, google.

Do not try to wait and see how things go or be afraid to seek help, spill your guts and cry. This job is tougher than people care to admit. A friend of mine from some training I had attended a few years ago just killed himself this week. It's a real issue, not a weakness on your part.

I had two friends at fire rescue commit suicide in a 5 year period. Both used fentanyl to do it with. Both were paramedics also. I retired about 5 years ago. Ive discovered over the years. You go through ups and downs with your emotions. I spoke with my doctor about it. We started a treatment program a year ago.

Thank you for all of the feedback.  I have read about things such as this being a wide spread problem, but I had worried about mentioning anything about this locally because no one else on the call seems to have experienced a similar reaction (or if they have, they have not said anything about it to me).  I will admit, that I wanted to save face and not admit anything was bothering me based upon a fear that somehow my reaction wasn't justified in this instance.  It's been very helpful to actually read personal accounts of struggles people have had and not just articles talking about broad based studies.

You never know what will trigger it in a person. I have seen guys come from combat tours and just shrug it off. Then they see a car accident and WHAM, PTSD. It is not a weakness to get help when you need it.

May God bless you all.

Agreed. The unseen cost to those who serve.

Echo the above about counseling if you desire and think it will help.  Don't look past your church pastor if you do that sort of thing (if not might want to consider it).  I have made the choice to NOT involve my family in this part of the job; sure they get the funny stories, maybe some nasty living conditions, stupid things we see happen but when it comes to bad things 'we had a bad night' is all they need to worry about.  There are some runs that you can never leave behind no matter how hard you try, the key is to let the good that you do outshine them.  Remember the save, the good outcomes, the diabetic, the accidental OD, the attempt that gets the help they need because of what you do, the family pet you get out of the house.

Another important thing to make sure you do and remember is to always know your job and do it proficiently and professionally.  We do not cause the events we deal with we are simply there to let those events cause as little damage as we can.  There was nothing you could have done differently to change the outcome of the event.  I get made fun of by some younger medics when I take the heart monitor in on 'injured in a fall' runs but sad to say I have been on patients that fell due to... you guessed it, cardiac arrest.  Sadly we are called to deal with someone else's tragedy every day, eventually it can and will wear you down a bit.

Stay off the alcohol, and find a certified counselor near you.
That image you keep seeing won't go away. Your mind doesn't know how to process it. A counselor will help you through that.

I havent read all the responses but if for some reason it hasnt been said, go see a consoler.  I know bigger departments have their own bureau to help with this.  worse case, go to HR, see if there is a recommended one and make an appointment.  Most think PTSD is just a military thing, but its just as likely to happen with Police/Fire.  We see stuff most people dont want to admit exist and are expected to just deal with it.  So make the phone call and go talk about it.

I've been on the job for 18 years.  I've decided that there is no rhyme or reason as to why or when shit comes back.  I have plenty of images from my entire career, sometimes I think about it, but it's usually fleeting.  Sometimes they stay with you for a while.  

If you need to talk, talk.  We've all been there brother.  You are not alone.

I actually remember reading the article for that run.  Sounds like there wasn't anything to be done.  It sucks, but it happens.

Had the exact same call about 16 years ago. Tractor flipped over on guy and catches fire. Guy pinned under it screaming till the fire killed him. The Friend that was there when it happen was never the same again. Still remember it like it was yesterday. Worse thing that sticks out is, when I jumped off the bus one of the fireman came up to me and said with a big smile, " want crispy critter "

We did and they were the last people you'd want to go to for help.

What a lot of people have said here OP. One of my last calls I was on we pulled up to a car on fire with 3 bodies in it. While it was clear to me there were DOA's it was the male driver pulling my arm begging me to save them. It was his wife and her 2 sisters. They were 3 of 5 for the day. The other was a motorcycle wreck and another with a woman falling face down in full arrest in the only entrance to the grocery store. Get thee to a professional. Go to your chief. I'm not sure if vollies include CISM in your coverage. If your department can't help go to your county or state mental health boards for more info.

There is a lot of stuff we have all seen and know what you are feeling. I was able to work it out with my family and hobbies. I participated in a couple critical incident debriefs and while I didn't feel the need as I was on the other side of the incident, I know it helped others.

Again, reach out and don't try to fix this on your own.

Go talk to someone. I've been in the LE side of things for three years and had other cumulative stuff from my personal life (have an alcoholic/drug abuser for a dad, grandma just passed away, I got shot a few years back, on and on, general stress due to work/money/other family) finally push me past the refusal to talk to a counselor. The last time I went to any kind of counseling was when I was around 8-9 years old right after my parents split (which, coincidentally, was also around the time I saw my dad get arrested and things kinda went downhill from there), and I was able to go to the same female counselor I'd seen years ago, which was sorta comforting for me. It was nice knowing she had previous experience with me/my family, and having that bond (I went to school with her daughter) of knowing her already helped me out personally.


As for scenes you don't forget, the two that stick out in my mind the most often (they don't bother me on a day to day basis, and after about a month I could shrug the thoughts off and go back to what I was doing) are the first two dead bodies I saw on duty, both of which occurred in the same weekend. Prior to them, the only time I'd ever seen a dead person was at a funeral. The first was a young black guy who was drunk as far as we could tell (car was full of empty beer cans) and had been driving on the wrong side of the road while being pursued by a different agency. I headed toward the area they were in to intercept him, but he crashed before I got there. I show up on the scene of the crash even though it was out of my jurisdiction (I was only about 1/4 of a mile away) and see this dude's car laying on the driver's side doors with him hanging out of the sunroof gushing blood all over the car and doing the death rattle. Apparently he'd lost control of it, hit a large tree, and rolled it over. Since he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, he got ejected through the sunroof and the edge of the roof landed right in the middle of his face, leaving a huge caved-in depression that ran from his forehead down to his chin. His dreadlocks were covered in what used to be his face when they laid him out.

The second one was also due to a crash, this time on the turnpike, and is kind of unbelievable. Four college kids from Gainesville were heading down to UCF to visit their friends on a Saturday night. The driver lost control of the car and rolled it several times, leaving debris from inside the car strewn everywhere. There were suitcases, clothes, textbooks, iPads, cash, jewelry, makeup and perfume, etc. strewn all over the highway. Two of the four made it out, the third was on his back trying to slide through the broken back window when a semi came around the curve and plowed into the overturned SUV, sending him sliding down the highway on his back (he ended up being flown out due to the severe injury to his back from sliding dozens of feet down the road) and the driver was still seatbelted in. From what I gathered, she was most likely still alive at the time of the second impact. The front of the semi had a cross on it and said "Jesus loves you"...

The worst part for me was when I overheard the two female passengers talking to who I presume was the driver's parents, telling them "we're all okay, Emily's still in the car but they're about to cut her out." Emily looked asleep, she didn't look dead. I felt horrible but I didn't want to be the one to break the news to them right then. Brought me back to when my Mom explained the way she reacted to the call from the deputy that worked the case where I got shot in 2009, as he was able to make contact with her before I could, but let me talk to her for a few seconds before I was loaded into the helicopter. Envisioning the way her parents must've reacted to the news that their daughter was okay, and then finding out a few hours later that that wasn't true, really effected me for a while.

I find that you either talk about it or you dream about it. But some things never go away, you just learn to handle it.

Also find joy in your life and bring it to others when you can. The good times make the bad times endurable.

Excellent book. 18 years has taken its toll on me.  SEEK HELP.

Regional CISM team
Safe call now
Employee assistance program
Peer support group
Mental health counseling

Are all options. Do not ignore this, it won't just go away... Heck it may not be the call itself that is the root cause, seek quality help.

You saw something horrific and its fresh. That's why it keeps popping up in your mind randomly with no rhyme or reason. Its going to take time but it will pop into your head less and less as time goes on, and it will be a little easier to cope with after each time you think of it.  

A year from now its still going to hurt but not as intense, and you'll think of it less frequent. Just stay strong and give it time brother.

this
 Some call it a CISD team - critical incident stress debriefing.  Essentially its a PTSD type event.   They fade, but can also fester and ruin a career.

I've worked a lot of bad scenes.  I think PTSD is real for this line of work.  I never thought of it long ago, but someone a few years back told me that it is real.  You can't do a thing about those cases man.  I can never change the course of direction on those calls where kids died horrible deaths.  I still hear the screaming, the cries, the prayers; it has faded over time, but it is still here with me, in my mind.  I've struggled with alcohol abuse for several years now, after years of sobriety prior to being a medic.  I finally figured out that the cumulative effect of the work still lives with me. 

Please seek real help and get counseling for this.  It's no joke.  Do not let it fester. 

Thanks again for all the feedback.  I thought that I would provide an update.  While I have not gone to see any professional help, I did talk about it with my brother-in-law, who is a career firefighter/emt, and that seemed to help.  I also went out of town to visit family last weekend, and I think that it also helped to go out of town, get away from the department and the calls for several days, and spend time with family.  It provided me with a break from my normal routine.  The incident still pops into my head at times but, as others have posted here, I think that this is bound to happen.  However, when it does pop into my head, I don't obsess about it like I had been doing.

Are you an every day volley? I ask because I work for a combination system and my dept is surrounded by all career and all volunteer depts. One of the things I have noticed is guys that volunteer are never "off". You have tone pagers and personal radios and all sorts of other ways to keep you "working" all the time. You are never down. If you are available for calls or at that firehouse more than two nights out of the week and working another job you need to stop it. Don't make firefighting your whole life. I irritate my wife all the time because I won't even make my food for the next work day until I wake up for shift in the morning. I don't want to think about work when I am off. If you are available for calls or at the firehouse all the time strike a new balance in your life and set some boundaries it will help this not become a recurring process.

I'm glad things are getting better for you. I don't generally have a problem with calls sticking to me. That said, the few that I have I had stick and that I had pictures in my head of I did something a buddy taught me. When you have it flash into your mind, mentally put a frame around it like a picture on your wall. Every time you see it try and make the picture smaller. Eventually you will start to have the picture start to lose detail. It will get smaller and smaller. Then one day you want be able to clearly make it out and it will fade away entirely. Supposedly this works because memories are essentially just you recalling the last time you remembered it. So every change in the pic will be remembered next time. So if you envision it smaller the next time you remember it it will be smaller. It worked for me (I didn't think it would).

If you need to talk let me know. PM me if you want.

24 years on the job and kept it in like a man. During the course of a couple of days it hit like a motherfucker. Ended up taking a medical. Been in treatent for over a year. Don't bottle it up. I saw and did some nasty shit. Talking about it sucks but it gets it out. I have flashbacks and dreams that the doc says I will have forever. I have developed coping skills to deal with them. Don't fall into the booze and drug thing. PM me if you want.

I wouldnt trust my old Dept. to hold my piss bucket. Before you know it they would have people calling you, priests trying to get you to a shrink. And then it would be the rubber gun squad "for your own good". All they care about is their own liability and you need only one clown in the chain trying to use you to justify his existence.

I just picked up the dead kids and pressed on. Avoid booze if you can, tho I always didnt, and as long as you have a good family to go home to you'll be alright. It always helped me to remember that I was the one who chose this life knowing full well what I'd have to deal with. The only ones that bothered me were the dead kids. Although the raped woman were shitty ones. What a lousy thing to do to a girl, there should be the death penalty for it because the offender is killing a big part of her by raping her.

Reading this thread brought back a call for me.  It has been the only one that really stuck with me.  It was a kid who flipped his car and burned up in the ensuing fire.  It was probably 5 years ago but haven't thought of it in about a year.  Working out like a madman always helps me forget about the bad calls.

You will always carry ghosts it gets better over time I have many after 16 years of it talk to your co-workers and friends in your profession good luck

This.

And listen, don't beat yourself up trying to erase it from your mind.  Talk to someone and tell the story to a professional person as manynieks as is needed to relieve the stressors you're experiencing.  Keeping it trapped in your brain isn't useful.

You are doing yourself a serious injustice if you bottle it up, or try to "man through it."  While I get that your brother in law may be in the career field, he most likely hasn't been properly trained to help you get through it.  Go talk to a professional.  No substitutes.  Talk to a pro.  Take it from someone who has been in a very bad place under similar circumstances.  It will eat you alive.

I'm not a LEO or EMS but I did end up with something very close to PTSD after being my father's caregiver during his brutal 4 month battle with pancreatic cancer that eventually killed him.

I was getting several flashbacks a day triggered by various things that were linked to his illness - sirens, smells, bottles of Vitamin Water, egg salad (don't ask) etc . During them it was like I got tossed back in time - I'd stop seeing the current reality and would relive whatever bad memory that the triggering item/situation called up. It was particularly scary when I heard a siren while driving, because I'd stop seeing the road in front of me.

After dealing with this daily for about 6 months I found a counselor that did something called EMDR.  It stands for Eye Movement Desensitization R-something but my counselor didn't do anything with my eyes, she used these little hand buzzer things that buzzed alternately in my hands while I described the memory (left - right - left -right), coached by her.  
Apparently the theory is that the physical stimulation while reliving the memory helps reprocess and store the memory so that it stops "flashing" and chucking you back in time.

I know this sounds like witchcraft but it WORKED.  We pretty much worked our way through my most intrusive memories and it only took a session or two on each one to stop the flashbacks cold. If I try I can still remember them but they are normal memories now and don't fling me out of current reality anymore.
It was a lot more effective than the talking therapy alone.

I wanted to post this in case it would help any of you guys out there deal with similar issues.  And thank you for all you do.

CG

I agree that it's PTSD and talking to someone and counseling helps. I have hundreds of "triggers" that remind me of something I was involved in. A sound, a smell, something I see or somewhere I've responded to and so on.

I call my memories "my ghosts" and I've learned to live with them.

I had a call a few years back quite similar to the OP. Guy hit a semi head on was trapped his pickup truck which then caught on fire. Got there put the fire out I know several personnel who haven't been to a call since i personally pulled the body from the vehicle and it took me a year before I could get a full nights sleep. As well as hardly responding to any calls during this time period. Then on top of the sleep problems people asking questions about other calls, driving by the location, and smells always brought it back for the longest. I can still see it to this day and do from time to time but thankfully it is not near as often as it used to be. Ive done cpr and worked multiple fatality accidents besides this one and this is by far the one that messed me up the worst. That being said as has been said repeatedly alcohol isn't the answer and talk to someone don't let it bottle up.

Everybody processes things differently.  It's completely normal and shouldn't be looked down upon by anyone.  I've been on plenty of calls am bothered by something that others don't pick up on and vice versa.  Everyone has different experiences in life that can influence what stays with them and not.  

The popup segment of an incident or a image from an incident in your head always seems to be the brain trying to resolve that situation and know what to do with it.  It's the brains way of trying to rationalize what on the surface seems to unrationalizeable.  It's a sticking point of that event that it can't seem to resolve.  It gets better with time in most cases but if you need help clearing it up don't be afraid to do so.  A lot of times a outsiders view on it and just talking it out with someone can help clear it up.  Find someone who you can trust in and who has been through similar if not a professional.  I had a old neighbor who was brown water navy in Vietnam and who was a retired fireman.  Some of the most cathartic moments in my life, and his, was sitting around in his driveways bullshitting over the fucked up shit we've seen.  Was never negative, it was quite to opposite in fact.  

See if anyone in your area specializes in EMDR.  I've heard many many good things about this approach and how quickly it can work.  Above all, talk to someone.  The keeping it in is what tends to do the damage, the quicker you can deal with it the quicker you can get a resolution.

OP, hope things are going better. As many here have said, seek professional counseling if possible, outside your dept. if need be. At the very least PLEASE PM me and I'm happy to talk, literally any time.

Continue to talk about it with someone you trust, even if the person you're talking too has no idea about the technical aspects of your job. Stay away from alcohol as much as you can, it may feel like it's helping but I guarantee as time goes on it will make things worse.

Let your spouse/significant other know what's going on as well, even if it has to be in general terms. There will be points when at night you are going to have night terrors about this, and it can be very difficult for them if they have no idea why you end up jumping out of bed/screaming/thrashing in the middle of the night. Hopefully you have a strong, understanding relationship, because eventually it will bleed through to your personal life, and sometimes it may make it seem like you're being a huge asshole.

Get lots of good exercise, and keep your mind occupied. The worst moments can be when you're stressed/sick/not getting enough sleep/just sitting around. Keep working?, even if it means going to the same sorts of calls. You hopefully do what you do to help others on some sort of level, remember what you are there for.

I don't think it will ever completely go away, but eventually, but soon those images will not be the only thing you see when you close your eyes. You will accept there wasn't anything else you could do. You'll be able to move on with your life, but you're always going to carry an unseen scar.

Again PLEASE PM ME OR THE OTHERS WHO HAVE OFFERED HERE IF YOU NEED TO TALK AND FIND A PROFESSIONAL TO TALK TO AS WELL.

Guess I'm kind of a minority here. I've personally never been on a call involving a fatality or the like that has effected me, or bothered me.

I've always used the mentality, "Do I know them? Are they a relative of mine? No? Well ok then."

Doesn't mean I don't do my best to help those in need or risk my life flying to a call to provide my assistance. But the end factor has never bothered me regardless of the result. Just chalk it up to another day. I leave it in the locker room, go home, do my thing and sleep peacefully at night. If it were someone I knew or was close to, it'd be different.

I haven't either, at least not yet.  Hopefully it will stay that way.