Need to take an informal poll (READ ALL CHOICES, multi allowed) on patrol Armor

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Need to take an informal poll (READ ALL CHOICES, multi allowed) on patrol Armor

Posted: 12/31/2016 12:07:01 AM EDT

So I'm doing a research project into the last decade (may extend to two) of LODDs and if there's been an increase in suspect using weapons capable of defeating soft armor.

Please read all the poll questions and answer up to give me an idea of what's being used out there as far as soft and hard armor. Now this is about "normal" patrol armor not SWAT/TRU heavy vests. Also this is about Issued armor only, not personally obtained, either agency approved or not.

ETA

My agency last year decided to go to IIIA instead of IIA for personal armor for all officers. There's been some talk about "Active shooter" plate kits with steel plates being purchased, but nothing really done mainly talk. I'm hoping to develop a compelling argument for ordering at least AR500 lvl III plate armor for all officers in case of Active Shooter events, we'll see. If anyone has input towards that end I'd really appreciate it.

Posted: 12/31/2016 3:43:23 AM EDT

[#1]

All are issued soft concealable vests. We worked a deal with city admin that allowed those who wanted to purchase rifle plates & carrier. The city bought the rigs & the officers pay the city back through payroll deduction. Basically an intrest free loan, and the group buy got the price to $533.

We've bought rifles this way in the past as well, I now have 3. This time around it was a package deal; Troy rifle, sling, light & 4 mags for $1050. The rifle also came with the PD's patch laser engraved on the mag well.

Posted: 12/31/2016 8:17:38 PM EDT

[#2]

Issued 3A concealable soft armor, and each car has a level 3 tac vests in the trunk.

I bought a Banshee and hard plates as part of my patrol rifle rig.

Posted: 12/31/2016 9:22:38 PM EDT

[#3]

We are given soft armor. 1 or 2 guys bough small trauma plates, but its rare. Guy in boise recently took a 308 to the chest and he happened to have a personally bought trauma plate in his carrier, saved his life.

Posted: 1/1/2017 1:43:49 AM EDT

[#4]

We get an allowance each year for uniform care and eqpt. You do with the money as you see fit.

Posted: 1/1/2017 11:37:11 AM EDT

[#5]

issued 3a soft and 4 plate/carrier with extra pistol/rifle mags and pouches on vest

*hesco brand plates

Posted: 1/1/2017 11:49:11 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
issued 3a soft and 4 plate/carrier with extra pistol mags and pouches on vest

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You don't happen to work for Arlington PD or Richmond PD do you? As I'm particularly interested in their armor setups.

Posted: 1/2/2017 12:33:20 AM EDT

[#7]

If everyone already has IIIA vests (which is common now) go ahead and get level IV plates.

Posted: 1/2/2017 12:47:57 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
If everyone already has IIIA vests (which is common now) go ahead and get level IV plates.

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If I was doing the buyin, it'd be III/IV-ICWs but we'll see.

Posted: 1/2/2017 12:56:04 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

You don't happen to work for Arlington PD or Richmond PD do you? As I'm particularly interested in their armor setups.

View Quote

Sent you a PM

Posted: 1/2/2017 3:00:43 AM EDT

[#10]

That's what I meant, IV-ICW.

Posted: 1/4/2017 12:58:25 AM EDT

[#11]

We are issued level II soft vests, but I believe they are being replaced by IIIA vests by attrition. Also, we are all issued plate carriers with level III steel plates and ballistic helmets.

Posted: 1/4/2017 6:06:13 AM EDT

[#12]

We've historically only issued soft body armor to the road side but supposedly just got a grant to put a PC in each marked unit
The Corrections side to this day isn't issued any vests of any sort. Guys on that side either order their own or wear hand-me-downs

Posted: 1/4/2017 7:47:21 AM EDT

[#13]

We are issued IIIA soft armor and also a "active shooter" plate carrier with level 4 plates.

Posted: 1/23/2017 10:33:38 AM EDT

[#14]

USBP here. We're issued Level IIIA soft armor in external carriers and can check out (some have permanently assigned) Level IV ceramic plates (AKA Turtle shell).

Posted: 1/23/2017 10:45:33 AM EDT

[#15]

My agency issues IIA soft armor, worn in either an external carrier or under the shirt. Pretty much everybody has plates too. I have level IV ceramics in a minimalist carrier that I can rapidy add over my external soft armor.

However....

The last guy killed in my agency was responding to an afterhours alarm at a medical business. We have lots of heroin users, so,it was possibly an active crime. He staged a little ways away waiting for another unit.

Unbeknownst to him, asleep in a vehicle was an (unrelated) fugitive from a double murder. The fugitive came out with an AR full of 855 and killed him before being killed by another LEO with a handgun.

Obviously the soft armor was ineffective and he had no time to don plates.

I think that is the issue with hard plates in the car. You probably won't have them on when you need them.

Posted: 1/23/2017 11:45:30 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
My agency issues IIA soft armor, worn in either an external carrier or under the shirt. Pretty much everybody has plates too. I have level IV ceramics in a minimalist carrier that I can rapidy add over my external soft armor.

However....

The last guy killed in my agency was responding to an afterhours alarm at a medical business. We have lots of heroin users, so,it was possibly an active crime. He staged a little ways away waiting for another unit.

Unbeknownst to him, asleep in a vehicle was an (unrelated) fugitive from a double murder. The fugitive came out with an AR full of 855 and killed him before being killed by another LEO with a handgun.

Obviously the soft armor was ineffective and he had no time to don plates.

I think that is the issue with hard plates in the car. You probably won't have them on when you need them.

View Quote

What im considering is if theres justification for a purchase of Level III ICW IIIA, thin, light plates that will be worn at all times... another 4-6 pounds but inan external carrier it doesn't feel like much.

Posted: 1/23/2017 10:09:39 PM EDT

[#17]

Of course there's justification; they stop bullets.

It's just a question of money.

If my agency made IIIA with III-ICW plates in a carrier standard issue for patrolmen, I'd be happy to wear it. SWAT should have IV but they've got time to put it on.

Posted: 1/25/2017 9:00:49 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

What im considering is if theres justification for a purchase of Level III ICW IIIA, thin, light plates that will be worn at all times... another 4-6 pounds but inan external carrier it doesn't feel like much.

View Quote

I've got a set of Paraclete plates in one of my vests. They're Level III and weigh MUCH less than steel. I'll look up the model and weight tomorrow when I'm back at work.

Posted: 1/25/2017 9:20:58 PM EDT

[#19]

My agency issues IIIA in a concealable vest. We are authorized to have external carriers and about 90% of us have gone to that. We are also allowed to purchase our own hard plates to stick in our external carriers. The guys I have talked to have either level 3 or level 3 Special Threat (stops M855 and M193, 308, 5.45x39, 7.62x39) plates that are light weight. I personally have ordered level 3 ST plates that are ICW and weigh about 3.66lbs. Steel armor is way too heavy to wear on a day to day basis on patrol in my opinion. Being able to wear hard armor on a day to day basis while on patrol is a huge advantage, as there are many situations where you are not able to put on a plate carrier due to either time or when a call/stop goes bad.

Posted: 2/17/2017 10:10:57 PM EDT

[#20]

Ours issues Level IIA with trauma inserts standard. I bought my own level IIIA with and spall coated titanium inserts......1*

Posted: 2/18/2017 10:51:33 PM EDT

[#21]

.

After Mt. Rainier NP Ranger Margaret Anderson was murdered in 2012, my current park issued all field staff Armored Mobility polyethylene IIIA plates to be worn over our III soft armor.

I upgraded to personally owned ESAPI plates after finding a methhead with a bunch of stolen guns and an AR mag with M855 in it.

.

Posted: 2/19/2017 4:16:47 PM EDT

[#22]

Just level IIIa soft armor. No plates. Have money for BWCs though, imagine that.

Posted: 3/24/2017 8:23:41 AM EDT

[#23]

Back in the dark ages I was the grant writer for my departments body armor. The Chief signed off on the grant but was fired before they came just after a city election (new mayors = new chief syndrome) anyway I also updated the departmental policy from may wear to shall wear the new vest. Anyway after researching I decided on a concealed level 3a vest because I wanted our vest to stop the hardest hitting round in our everyday inventory 12 gauge slugs. I also bought the small trauma plate (steel) to help with back face trama.

The new chief and officers (6) hated the vests and new policy but not a day went by that I did not wear mine even in the hot high humidity TN summers. I had to write up a couple of officers for failure to wear theirs. Everyone's complaint was they didn't need 3a when 2 or 2a would suffice. I ended up leaving 6 months later and was a much happier man to get away from all that negativity.

Posted: 3/24/2017 10:04:41 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
Back in the dark ages I was the grant writer for my departments body armor. The Chief signed off on the grant but was fired before they came just after a city election (new mayors = new chief syndrome) anyway I also updated the departmental policy from may wear to shall wear the new vest. Anyway after researching I decided on a concealed level 3a vest because I wanted our vest to stop the hardest hitting round in our everyday inventory 12 gauge slugs. I also bought the small trauma plate (steel) to help with back face trama.

The new chief and officers (6) hated the vests and new policy but not a day went by that I did not wear mine even in the hot high humidity TN summers. I had to write up a couple of officers for failure to wear theirs. Everyone's complaint was they didn't need 3a when 2 or 2a would suffice. I ended up leaving 6 months later and was a much happier man to get away from all that negativity.

View Quote

Wow... was it a small town? I know most guys in my agency are excited about getting upgraded to IIIA because they dont trust the IIA to stop what we run into regularly.

Posted: 3/24/2017 5:45:08 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

Wow... was it a small town? I know most guys in my agency are excited about getting upgraded to IIIA because they dont trust the IIA to stop what we run into regularly.

View Quote

Yea there was 8 of us including the Chief. I was the Sgt and ran everything. My position was a grant and basically all the Chief did was sign off on the paperwork. I kept the books and totals of activities. I also patrolled and handled most of the fraud/burglaries unless it was over 10k then I could pawn it off on the sheriff's office.

I enjoyed my position until all of the political BS started and when the Chief left they hired someone with no supervisory experience and wanted me to train him. Once I got him up to speed I found out through back channels that I was being lined up to being fired because the grant was only for 8 more months. I left the entire career behind and started investigating for insurance companies for the next 7 years.

I've only missed the job a few times. I woke up one day divorced and living in FL and finally went to work. I should have learned a trade when I was young. I love building ships. I give that advice to all the kids I talk to including my own. Learn a trade and you'll always be able to find work.

Posted: 3/25/2017 3:47:03 PM EDT

[#26]

We can get IIA or IIIA concealable, no clue why some idiots I work with would rather have the IIA for comfort reasons.

I bought IV plates and a carrier I carry around with me daily. I think I'm the only one in the dept with hard plates though

Posted: 3/25/2017 8:06:41 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
We can get IIA or IIIA concealable, no clue why some idiots I work with would rather have the IIA for comfort reasons.

I bought IV plates and a carrier I carry around with me daily. I think I'm the only one in the dept with hard plates though

View Quote

All I've ever worn was IIIA but I can't imagine there is a big difference in comfort with the IIA. The main reason concealable body armor is uncomfortable is the trapped body heat, I wouldn't think IIA would trap less. Maybe a touch more flexibility

Posted: 3/25/2017 8:28:54 PM EDT

[#28]

Austin PD just issued plates in an external carrier to all the patrol officers thru some grant program or another. I'll call around and see if I can get the specifics for you.

ETA, It's ceramic plates, rated to 7.62 NATO.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Need to take an informal poll (READ ALL CHOICES, multi allowed) on patrol Armor

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