Facts:

Nobody likes getting bounced from an FTO program.

Reserves are uncompensated in this Department.

Have been a Level 2 Reserve with a Department  of 40 sworn Officers for 3 years.  Successfully completed their 200 hour Level 2 Reserve FTO soon after joining.

I have a POST Basic.

Halfway through my Level 1 FTO program, the FTO Sgt. (who is also the Reserve Coordinator) calls me in and says my FTO recommends I get out of the program or initiate a PIP.  The FTO is a full-time Officer, I was his second "trainee".

On the 7 point system, I was getting consistent 3's and 4's, no issues beyond what would be reasonably expected at this stage in the program (i.e. officer safety, orientation, etc). Never backed down or lost a fight, plenty of 11-96's and no officer safety issues when searching or hands-on.

Naturally, I was stunned at this development, I knew that it was useless trying to fight their decision or the direction they wanted to go, so I decided to go back to Level 2.  I know that the added pressure of trying to successfully perform under a PIP would be folly.  I cannot re-apply to Level 1 FTO for a year.

FTO Sgt. sends a department email stating that I have voluntarily withdrawn from the FTO program due to Officer Safety and Situational Awareness Issues.  

 

Background:

Have established a great working/professional relationship will all officers including the 4 Captains.  While on patrol, I always offer to take the 180's, bookings, witness statements and measurements for 555's etc.  In order to take some load off of them.

Always participated in the DUI checkpoints, Festivals, Parades (cannot say the same for the other Reserve Officers who are Dept. Retirees)  In three years, I have performed almost 600 hours of duty.

We have 5 Reserve Officers, I am the only one that works patrol on the busiest shifts (Fri/Sat swings) and never had my performance or credibility questioned.

FTO Sgt. (who is also the Reserve coordinator) had been pushing me to begin Reserve level 1 FTO.  I was not to thrilled about it because it was going to take 480 hours to complete (started in March 2016, working 4 shifts = 50 hours/month)  I have a wife, 5yr old daughter and full-time civilian career. But decided it would be a 10 month sacrifice and my family time would return to normal after I was finished with the program.

The Teams are usually at minimums and if I was Level 1, then it would mean an extra car for coverage.  All the WC's keep asking me when I will be Level 1 certified.

Have been an Army Officer (Reserves and NG) for 30 years, deployed OIF, OEF.  High threat/kinetic environments are nothing new to me.


So, In your professional opinion as a member on the "inside", can you help me wrap my arms around this?  Have you seen a similar situation?   I am so pissed off, my attitude to the Department and LE is less than zero.  I worked hard to establish my credibility during my time there and its all gone to shit.  the 240 hours I spent on FTO since March are down the toilet because I will not get credit for the time if I ever go back into the program.  I believe the Department is less dedicated in me being a Level 1 than I am.  It would seem there is something strange going on behind the scenes that I am unaware of; as if I'm the new guy sitting in on a poker game wondering who the sucker is.

I loved doing this work, felt really connected to the pulse of the community where I lived.  I enjoyed being part of the Team and having skills and experiences directly applicable to LE.  Now, doing my best to look for the silver lining, I have had more quality time with my family since this all went down and all the self-induced FTO stress is off my shoulders....but I am still pissed, especially about the email.

In the short-term, I will see how it goes for the next few months and gauge if I want to eject or stay.  I am confident there are other Departments with a Reserve program that would appreciate what I have to offer.

Thanks for listening,

Some FTOs are assholes and their personality holds them back and they will only pass people like them no matter how good.  FTOs can also fuck over trainees by poor safety skills too.

I've seen guys who are assumed to be beefcakes have trouble with the cerebral guys and vice versa.

Short of a major screw up, I can't see how he'd have grounds to torpedo you when he has no body of experience to fall back on.

You could also clear up your post be eliminating agency specific codes.

I truly wish you the best of luck. Keep your head above water and play the game smartly next time around.

If you are getting 3's+4's....4 is the minimum acceptable standard.  What categories are you getting 3's in? Are those the categories where you were requested to do a PIP?



Do you have any NRT's?  Were any phases extended?



How many different FTO's have evaluated you?  Did they all rate you with 3's +4's?



If you are consistently getting 3's+4's that's an issue with someone who has some experience.




 

Thanks for the replies, sorry about the agency specific codes:  

CHP-555, CHP 180:  Vehicle accident and tow forms.  Pain in the ass and time siphon.

11-96:  High risk car stop

I've only had the one FTO (days).  Now that I was halfway through the program, I was going to a new FTO on swings.

How can you quantify the difference between a 3 and 4?  The POST FTO scoring standards guide uses descriptors for scoring 4's as: "usually" (I.e. usually uses quickest route to a call, "rarely" (rarely misses radio call first time, always picks up on second)  etc.  

I scored a two for "violating the person's civil rights" during the course of an officer safety cursory search.  Contacted a dude for drinking in public, had him put the bottle down, I took the knife out of a guy's pocket (good), then I took out his cellphone and wallet (bad).  Scored a two for violating Department policy for being in the #3 lane with lights and siren on for an injury accident on the off-ramp a half mile away, I should not have had lights and siren on in the #3 lane.

Prior to starting the program, everyone was saying "aim for 4's, 4's is success.  I would think that halfway through the program 3's and 4's would be doing good.  I received no NRT's, remedial training for anything, nor did I think I needed it.  In fact, I thought our initial meeting the Sgt. was going to say "keep doing what you're doing, you're heading in the right direction"




Regards,

I'd leave that department. You are now type cast in a negative way. Right or wrong. Before bouncing someone, they should be getting consistent 1s, 2s, and NTAs with retraining documented.

Someone talked you into volunteering to end your training because they because they failed to document properly if they were looking to bounce you out. If your 3s and 4s are true that is.  Someone doesn't like you imho.

IIRC 3's are bad on a 7 point scale. 4's are borderline competent. Scoring mostly 3s and 4s you should have been having significant daily DOR reviews with your FTO.



You should have completed your training with your next FTO and not withdrawn after having issues with one guy. There is a reason for multiple FTOs. It is odd that they would even be having the conversation of dropping you after one FTO unless he was documenting serious performance issues.



On the flip side FTOs can be incompetent, and they can also just plain not get along with someone... I had an FTO on my second agency who had... interesting views on things. He wrote bad evals on me for stupid shit, like saying I made a bad detention because there "wasn't a victim willing to press charges" as though that somehow negates reasonable suspicion, and docking me for officer safety when a tiny wristed female slipped a set of properly gauged and double locked cuffs in a holding cell



I just signed the DORs and smiled and nodded and pretended to take copious notes on his ridiculous instruction and magically my scores improved. I even learned something in the bargain: Who to partner with if I want to make a month feel like a 25 year prison sentence.



If your FTO is not telling you in DOR reviews and evaluations that he thinks you have serious officer safety and situational awareness problems but is telling those things to the FTO sergeant either he has written you off completely and is trying to document enough to get rid of you, or there is a serious communication breakdown between you two and he is failing to adequately convey to you the severity of issues he is seeing.



 

Before you resigned I would have asked to be evaluated by another FTO.   At my agency we wouldn't do anything based upon one guys evaluation.



God luck and I hope it works out for you.

I would ask to be paired with another F.T.O. People can be trained. We had one guy who flat out thought he was king shit. Would just treat new guys like shit. We started to notice his patterns and removed him from training. His head swelled when he got into the program. There is a time to teach and be firm but also point out mistakes and corrective action. If the Recruit fixes the problem and moves on and doesn't do it again then its a good day. Wish you the best of luck don't give up on your dreams.

Thanks all for the replies, it is encouraging to see you all mostly have the same advice to give.  Thanks for your support.


I needed to mention that my Level 2 FTO program was exactly like the Level 1 except for the length of time.  I had NO problems whatsoever making it through, in fact, I actually enjoyed it because I had some great FTO's who I could admire and respect as mentors and teachers.

The irony is, my primary Level 1 FTO and I had good "chemistry" together prior to him going to FTO certification and was looking forward to being with him.  

During our meeting, the FTO Sgt. made it very clear that if I stayed in the program, an aggressive Performance Improvement Plan would be put in place and I would be constantly examined under a very strong magnifying glass.  Additionally, I would be paired with an FTO known for being extra "tough" and if I did not improve "fast enough" I would be removed from the Department completely.  Additionally, if I stay, he told me I am not allowed to contact or ride with my former FTO

In closing, you guys must be thinking "this doesn't add up, the guy must have ventilated the roof of his car with a shotgun, tased an elderly paraplegic or ran and hid behind a stop sign during a felony car stop" I'm glad to say this is not the case.  Unfortunately, it is likely that many others in the Department will think something like that happened and my credibility and reputation will be gone.


Thanks again for the advice, this has been a bitter pill to swallow, I will look at other departments in my area (Northern California).

Stay safe,

On the OP's DOR how many minutes of remedial training time was provided should have been on several of them. And if remedial training was provided and the OP kept fucking up then "NRT" should have been checked off.



Sounds like the FTO's dropped the ball and bullied the OP into resigning.



 

Basically;


you're boned.

You state your FTO was also the Reserve Coordinator.

They are going to listen to that person before you, even if everyone knew you as solid on the street, they are going to take the FTO's recommendations over you.

I do not presume to understand the scoring system you allude to, but it appears from the outside if you were scoring 3's on a 7 chart, and the FTO wasn't intentionally trying to splash you, you aren't thriving, much less meeting the standards.

You can't really go to anybody - you'll be perceived as whiny.

You only appear to have two choices here:

1 - Take your lumps, try again when you are eligible

or

2 - look into opportunities to serve elsewhere.

Before you do two, I would at least have a heart to heart with your Reserve Commander / Chief / whatever the terminology is, and let them know of your intentions.

If this place values and cultivates good performers, maybe you will be able to work something out. If they don't, at least you told them, and left it all on the table.

Hopefully the grapevine will not blackball you before you get out their door, though.

Not to hijack the thread with dumb FTO stories, but when I went through FTO phase in one large department here, they really did try to flunk me. The FTO would pull up to an alarm, then fail me on officer safety for the entire shift because I got out on the side facing the alarm. Or, make me do something, then fail me for doing it.

The Assistant Chief Deputy would pull me out to do a task, and I'd be failed for that day for nonattendance. Silly shit constantly.

This^^  and pretty much everything else being said. If you were truly having issues no one will ever know 10 years from now because they are failing to document and don't sound like there is any consistency with that. This opens them up to potential legal issues down the road.

New Developments,

Went to the Reserve meeting last night, FTO/Reserve Coordinator was there.

I was the last to leave, he asked me if everything was alright, I said nope.  I sat down with him and brought up the disconnect between DOR scores and where I am now.  He ultimately admitted that there were "problems" with some FTO's not being good trainers ,but would not reverse the position I am in now.

Won a significant personal battle, was not all me.  But lost the war.  Bottom line is; I communicated my points effectively enough that he knew "I knew".

He told me that my credibility is not degraded in the Dept., and am respected from the Captains on down for being the only Reserve officer working Patrol.

I asked for an path forward to improve on the areas I am weak in and be better prepared for next time.  We both worked on a mutually acceptable plan that included partnering with respected senior officers/trainers.

I committed to being motivated, enthusiastic, no thin skin and to absorb the training, we shook hands on it.  We'll see how it goes over the next 5-6 months or so.

Since the meeting last night, I am purged of the bile and animosity to the Dept.


Thanks again for your thoughtful insights, support and encouragement.

Be safe,

Glad you were able to sit down and discuss the issues with him. Hopefully he'll start to make some changes since he is aware of the problems: also it's good you are starting to "get over it" rather than keep you pissed off all the time: even after making it past FTO there are always things internally that will cause strife and you gotta let it go. Good luck in you're future endeavors:

Sounds like a real chicken shit outfit. I dont know a lot of the language your talking about, since my outfit is so scared of lawsuites they dont fail anyone, but its obvious you caught it in the keester. This happens a lot in L.E. , unless you have some kind of steam behind you. Which apparently you dont have.

Can I ask this however, and Im not trying to be a smart ass, by saying your "reserve" are you telling me your working this nit wit job for free? Seriously, why would you do that? I dont even want to do it for 100G a year anymore. And the last job in the world I'd want would be FTO.

Anyway I wish you luck. But I wouldnt worry to much about getting forced from a job you werent getting paid for in the first place.

This

Sounds like we worked for the same PD.
Ours had to force people to be FTOs. When I left the two FTOs (in charge of approx. 40 cops) had only 6 months out of the academy themselves.

My agency also. Several years back it was decided we should modernize and actually have real FTO training. Initially they required FTO to have 3 years on. Then they reduced it to 2 years.  Now, all you have to do to be a FTO is be out of academy, have a pulse, and willing desire to kiss mgmt. behind.

About as close as you can get, and I used to hunt with a few of you guys.

To be an FTO you have to work where, and when, and with who, they tell you to. And that dont sound like fun to me. Not when they send you some 100 lb mini-cop whose "Daddy" is a LT. and she wont fucking shut up about it in between painting her nails.

For awhile the Boss would send me young guys and ask me to train them up a bit. I did but had rules, #1 no talking about being an FTO. #2, No whinging about cigars. It was OK. When you get a good kid, guy or gal, and they actually want to learn something then its OK. But I'd never do it full time, not for a few extra bucks a day, and not with some of the bananas they hire to achieve their rainbow world. We were the Real Police back when they hired tough guys from the neighborhood and ex-female bartenders who could drink, punch, and screw as good as the rest of us.

Our guys were voluntold they'd be FTOs.

This is one of the best posts I've seen in quite some time here. Bravo Zulu on you doing what you did, with maturity and respect. I sincerely hope that this washes out, and you've seen the end of your personality conflict with that FTO. In the future, I hope you're really good about documenting, in the case that you get deja' vu all over again next trip through the chute.

Best wishes to you!

Good job and keep your chin up!

In Ranger School this is called cadre roulette.  I would have spoken with the Chief before dropping out of the process, but it's a bit late for that.

Greetings all, this is my first post as I am new to this forum. I retired from AZ DPS in 2007 and served as an FTO for about 12 years. 37 years in the Army/Army Reserve.  Lot's of good input here so I won't rehash it but instead I'll hit a couple points as I think this is a good thread and it could help others. My first gut instinct was a conflict between you and your FTO - personalities (assuming you are accurate in your self assessment). I've seen this many times and can't count the trainees I've received from other FTO's who said "this guy is all ate up," only to find that they weren't so bad but are now so nervous they can barely speak or function. What I find strange is that you were under only 1 FTO when they came to you - in my dep't, you have to go to at least 2 FTO's before they would do such a thing (unless you were CLEARLY jacked up and there was a ton of documentation). If there were still questions, you would go to a third FTO. Anyway, you sound like you are a worker and THAT is what you will be known for, NOT this FTO thing. Street cops ALWAYS know who are the hard chargers and who ain't - you can't hide in the shadows. My advice is put this thing behind you, especially if you are going to take another crack at it. You have to approach the next time fresh without dwelling on what happened previously - go in silently confident. I have a tremendous amount of respect for reserve officers who do this for nothing more than the love of the job (I thought they were nuts frankly). You can also tell who's really committed and who just wanted a badge and a gun for bragging rights. You sound very committed and I wish you the best. Stay safe, watch the hands and good luck!

All,

Thanks again for your feedback, encouragement and support.

Word around the PD about my change of FTO status travels fast.  Fortunately, they have all been supportive and are assuring me that they have no problem with me as their fill officer.  Many have confided with me that they had problems in FTO with other agencies and not to beat myself up too much about it.  Even the Captains I run into shake my hand and thank me for what I do there and tell me how much they appreciate that I work patrol.  That's good enough for me.  

I will re-evaluate in a year or so if the juice is worth the squeeze.  Again, the only added benefit of successfully completing the 480 hour program is I can drive solo (and I like driving solo, but I'm always learning when riding with the full-time guys).

I admire and respect you FTO's who have dedicated yourselves to effectively training and preparing recruits for the real world.  Keep doing what you're doing, it is not getting any easier out there.

In answer to an earlier post about compensation, there are pay jobs available for Reserves; DUI checkpoints, Fairs and anything else that is not paid for out of City funds.

Lastly, my new goal is to forge a path within the Dept. to start a Reserve FTO program.  There's got to be a way to effectively leverage the experience from the Reserve's who are recent retirees and would be responsible for training, mentoring and coaching Level II Officers through the Level I program.

Be safe...

Crater