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Posted: 7/9/2016 8:14:36 AM EDT
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 12:27:23 PM EDT
[#1]
I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 12:46:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Seek new friends.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 1:31:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Yes, you have officer discretion in most cases. Dont worry too much about that right now as you will learn a lot through training.

As for what it takes to do the job: I would ask these questions.

Do you care about doing the right thing and wish others would too?

And are you comfortable with who you are, and do you hold yourself to a high standard?

If so, you will be trained on the ins and outs of policing. If you don't care about what's right and wrong and you aren't comfortable with yourself then you would only get lost in this line of work.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 7:51:03 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?
View Quote



For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.

On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.

Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 8:00:11 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Yes, you have officer discretion in most cases. Dont worry too much about that right now as you will learn a lot through training.

As for what it takes to do the job: I would ask these questions.

Do you care about doing the right thing and wish others would too?
Yes. That was part of the impetus of my question about discretion (which might have appeared trollish, in hindsight). I'm sick of some people getting away with bad things while victimless nonsense ruins the lives of others. I have a moral code, and I'd like to see more actual crimes punished. I don't want to ruin lives for self-correcting problems, and I'd like people to say "Hey, I know that Mike guy and he's a nice guy, and a cop. Surely he's not the only one, and he can tell me why someone in this situation did such and such."

And are you comfortable with who you are, and do you hold yourself to a high standard?

Mostly, and yes. I have my rough edges like anyone else, things i'm less than perfectly disciplined on (my stove looks like I cook, my daily processes at work have shortcuts to save time, I can occasionally admit to a heavy right foot ), but I have always tried to do the right thing and learn from my mistakes and indescretions in life. I've lost 125lbs since I dropped out of college, I'm losing the last 50 again since my mother passed after 3 mos in the hospital, and grandmother passed and I lost my job in the oilfield (and had to fall back on an OTR position), and keep all my bills current after what was essentially my personal Lehman Brothers collapse, so I'd say i'm able to keep myself in good standing with responsibilities...not that those truly compare to what you guys are called upon to do.

If so, you will be trained on the ins and outs of policing. If you don't care about what's right and wrong and you aren't comfortable with yourself then you would only get lost in this line of work.
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/9/2016 11:37:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Ever done a ridealong with an agency?
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 1:19:55 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
Ever done a ridealong with an agency?
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Not yet, its on my list of things to do before I make a decision.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 1:45:08 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Yes, you have officer discretion in most cases. Dont worry too much about that right now as you will learn a lot through training.

As for what it takes to do the job: I would ask these questions.

Do you care about doing the right thing and wish others would too?
Yes. That was part of the impetus of my question about discretion (which might have appeared trollish, in hindsight). I'm sick of some people getting away with bad things while victimless nonsense ruins the lives of others. I have a moral code, and I'd like to see more actual crimes punished. I don't want to ruin lives for self-correcting problems, and I'd like people to say "Hey, I know that Mike guy and he's a nice guy, and a cop. Surely he's not the only one, and he can tell me why someone in this situation did such and such."

And are you comfortable with who you are, and do you hold yourself to a high standard?

Mostly, and yes. I have my rough edges like anyone else, things i'm less than perfectly disciplined on (my stove looks like I cook, my daily processes at work have shortcuts to save time, I can occasionally admit to a heavy right foot ), but I have always tried to do the right thing and learn from my mistakes and indescretions in life. I've lost 125lbs since I dropped out of college, I'm losing the last 50 again since my mother passed after 3 mos in the hospital, and grandmother passed and I lost my job in the oilfield (and had to fall back on an OTR position), and keep all my bills current after what was essentially my personal Lehman Brothers collapse, so I'd say i'm able to keep myself in good standing with responsibilities...not that those truly compare to what you guys are called upon to do.

If so, you will be trained on the ins and outs of policing. If you don't care about what's right and wrong and you aren't comfortable with yourself then you would only get lost in this line of work.




Well then it sounds like you have the right foundation.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 2:42:59 AM EDT
[#9]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.




On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.



Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:



Quoted:

I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?






For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.




On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.



Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.


As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.



I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.



Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.



The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.



TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.



 
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 6:33:02 AM EDT
[#10]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.



I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.



Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.



The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.



TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.

 
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?






For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.




On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.



Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.


As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.



I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.



Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.



The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.



TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.

 
Bravo.  I occasionally read forums like this to get a glimpse of what LE cats are thinking, and this is one of the most lucid and descriptive passages I have ever read about what actual policing is like...fantastic post.

 


Link Posted: 7/10/2016 11:39:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.

I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.

Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.

The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.

TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?



For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.


On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.

Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.

As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.

I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.

Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.

The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.

TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.
 


You're are right, but occasionally you really do help someone- or maybe you recorded or found or catalogued or stumbled upon the one thing that really made a case. Those are good feelings you won't get anywhere else.

But it doesn't take long to get very cynical, and in a small town you will get to know your repeat customers- and the family or friends that suffer them- very very well.

If the ticket writing and parts you disagree with get you down, have you considered something more specialized? I do probation and parole currently. The nature of the job differs substantially state by state, but you will work closely with family and victims along with criminals, it's mostly a 9 to 5 gig, pay is a bit better than local agencies, and in most places you are state level- which allows for transfer to other agencies more easily, at least around here. You have full arrest powers (by statute here, but our policy constrains us a bit regarding what they want us to arrest for and charge for), wear the getup, and will work with other law enforcement agencies as well (not sure and I don't think I really consider PO work law enforcement and everyone seems to be equally split- it's very much corrections, but a lot of what we do does cross over and enter the realm of what many would consider law enforcement. Officer of the court is a more fair assessment really).

If you have a good relationship with your DA and judges, you have discretion to do a lot with your offenders. I have pinned people to the wall based on things I would let others get by with little or no sanction for. I work with everything from Walmart thieves to murderers and arsonists. It's always interesting, and the job gives you a massive amount of freedom. Some days you are driving across the state to pick up an absconder. Some days you are in court. Some days you just go ride to see people. If your offenders aren't being jackassese some days you might sit in your office and do nothing other than light paperwork. I have gotten children out of abusive and drug filled homes, I have found enough drugs to throw dealers in the Fed pen. To me, it's a good job that suits my lifestyle and mindset. I have had people flush roaches that could and should be a violation of probation.Your concerns in your OP make me wonder if we don't feel similarly on some matters, so you might be interested in looking into it. Being a patrol cop isn't the only thing out there, and I am not sure I would want to be one nowadays anyway.

I'm about at the 2 year mark with this gig, so I am still plenty green and learning, and still have enthusiasm that many lifers lost. It is very different from police work, and in a honesty much less stressful if you maintain your cases properly. You are still walking into every neighbourhood in the ghetto and there are real safety risks, but fortunately most offenders would rather be on your good side than mess with you. I'v had several go out, commit a violent crime, then call me and turn themself into me, stating that they were doing it because i had always been fair with them. A really weird and sort of gratifying feeling.

Qualifications are different, most require a 4 year degree but they like many of the same thing other Leo and state agencies do- social sciences, psychology, poli science (presumably due to all the time and interaction with courts), criminology type degrees were the ones I remember them specifically discussing at my interviews. The basic training is shorter- in NC it's a residential course at the justice Academy that lasts about 7 weeks, but there is much more on the job training than anything else I have seen. Most months have 2-4 days of full training days on everything from paperwork to personal defense, and we do shoot a minimum of twice a year. I remember in March we had 10 full days of training- mostly mental health, but a very good class on dealing with sovereign citizens and moorish nation as well.

Just some food for thought.

ETA: Man, this new S7 does some BIZARRE shit with autocorrect.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 12:20:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 12:27:24 PM EDT
[#13]
I used to recommend this job all the time to people that are qualified for it and would make a good cop.

Now, I just go with the common sense response and say "don't do it".

Sorry to be cynical but the negatives FAR outweigh the positives in today's society.
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 4:33:35 PM EDT
[#14]
If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?
Link Posted: 7/10/2016 6:51:09 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?
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Link Posted: 7/10/2016 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the replies.

This may sound silly, but much of what you guys talk about I saw shadows of as a city bus driver (actually, for the UofA in Fayetteville, but it was the de facto city service). There were people that just droned about and then there were the people we had to babysit (and a metric shitload of hot coeds ). And then it only got worse when the Katrina Refugees moved up. About 1/10 viewed it as a fresh start and genuinely used it that way. 2/10 were just lazy, soaking up bennies, and the others resumed their uselessness or genuine nefarity with no change but to their geographic latitude.

To top it off, I would be a jailer for a year before patrol. I hope you guys won't think less of me, but i'm really not looking forward to a career of sorting out people's drama and lack of parental skill, on their part or the product of their parents' poor parenting 10-40 years prior (aside from genuine bad eggs, which we all expected to see before we even filled out an application). I'll keep looking into it, but I go with the jaundiced view I expected to have from the replies of you veteran officers. (Which is what I wanted, I hate sugarcoating).


How many problems do you usually get from management, be they micromanagement, lack of any management, or retarded politics that make you realize that you have essentially no backup for your actions?
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 6:18:33 AM EDT
[#17]
As career guys, we probably won't be able to talk you out of it so you'll just have to figure all this stuff out for yourself.



With that said, the same people who are screaming for help on the phone are the same people who say "f the police" while giving you dirt looks as you're driving by. They don't want you around but will be the first to call for a $1,000 ambulance ride because their stomach hurts or they got an ash tray to the face and want someone removed from the house.



You will mostly deal with the  same people over and over again. Once you get past the 10 year mark, you'll begin to arrest their kids and the cycle continues. I've only worked for one chief who I knew had my back. The rest are empty suits who forgot what it was like to ride a beat a long time ago. They're yes men to the city council/mayor even when they come up with stuff that makes no sense what so ever to the people who are actually doing the job. If you get a baseless complaint filed against you, you better hope you're covered by a body/dash camera because you're going to be thrown under the bus whether you're innocent or not. An administrator's job is to cover his ass/department first and everything else comes second. There are exceptions, of course.



On a positive note, the majority of the population supports LE. They just aren't a very vocal bunch because they actually have to work like we do and go to sleep at normal times compared to the shitheads.



Have fun!
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 10:21:56 AM EDT
[#18]
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Thanks for the replies.

This may sound silly, but much of what you guys talk about I saw shadows of as a city bus driver (actually, for the UofA in Fayetteville, but it was the de facto city service). There were people that just droned about and then there were the people we had to babysit (and a metric shitload of hot coeds ). And then it only got worse when the Katrina Refugees moved up. About 1/10 viewed it as a fresh start and genuinely used it that way. 2/10 were just lazy, soaking up bennies, and the others resumed their uselessness or genuine nefarity with no change but to their geographic latitude.

To top it off, I would be a jailer for a year before patrol. I hope you guys won't think less of me, but i'm really not looking forward to a career of sorting out people's drama and lack of parental skill, on their part or the product of their parents' poor parenting 10-40 years prior (aside from genuine bad eggs, which we all expected to see before we even filled out an application). I'll keep looking into it, but I go with the jaundiced view I expected to have from the replies of you veteran officers. (Which is what I wanted, I hate sugarcoating).


How many problems do you usually get from management, be they micromanagement, lack of any management, or retarded politics that make you realize that you have essentially no backup for your actions?
View Quote



Reference the part in red.....that's what we do.  We are the problem solvers of society.  What's even more fun is that after we show up, listen to their problems, and then give them a solution, they get angry with the solution and then get mad at us!  If you don't like sorting out people's drama, you won't like being a cop...because that's a large portion of what we do...and then you get to go write a report about it!

Personally, I like dealing with people's problems.  Maybe I'm weird.  I show up, spend time talking to people, and usually come up with a solution.  I did have a couple neighbors who couldn't resolve their problems themselves.  I presented the solution and they still didn't want it.  So I told them, "You don't want the solution, you're just wanting to bitch to me about the other neighbor.  Since you won't be part of the solution, then there is nothing I can do to solve your problems.  Sort it out yourselves."  I then got in my car and left.  I'll spend a long time helping someone out who is willing to listen and willing to be a solution to their own issues.  If you refuse my advise, then I'm not going to waste my time any further.  

As far as management, some are awesome and some are terrible.  I've worked for both.  I used to work for a smaller city PD.  Started with a terrible chief, got a great one, then got a terrible one again....worse than the first.  Luckily my immediate supervisor was fantastic.  I finally had enough and moved on to a larger sheriff's office.  Love it where I'm at now.  We have a handful of poor supervisors but most are great to work for.  There are a few things I'd improve if given a choice but overall, it's a fantastic place to work.  

If you study your job, go to as much training as you can, read police science books, read laws, read court cases, and read judicial decisions (I do...as I said, I'm weird) and learn your job as best you can, you will rarely get much flack from your supervisors.  My supervisors rarely question my decisions....because they know my decision will be a well reasoned, well thought out decision that is based in the laws and current judicial guidance.  I also like to call prosecutors and ask them what they want to see with a case so if questioned by my supervisor, I can tell the supervisor that this guidance came from the prosecutor.  

This job is what you make of it.  To be fair, I would not want to work in an inner city dealing 100% with blacks.  It would definitely cloud my outlook.  We don't deal with too many blacks were I work (I work mostly rural and let's be honest, blacks typically don't like the country...except for that one nice black family we have that lives far out in the country...they moved there for a reason...to escape the inner city madness) but the ones we do have given me enough taste of them that I can see why many officers become very racist.  It's hard, if not impossible, not to.

You'll probably get some posts and comments from officers we like to call RODs.  Retired on Duty.  The prosecutor a few posts above this one alluded to them.  We have a few where I work.  They never stop complaining no matter how good things are going and they do as little work as possible.  Every department has drones like them.  Everything about this job is terrible according to them.  There are things I don't like about my job...but then if I was making widgets in a factory, there would be something I didn't like.  Overall though, in spite of all the crap going on, I still love my job and enjoy going in to work every day.  

You really should do a ridealong with an agency to see what it's all about.  Hopefully, you won't get that burned out ROD to ride with.  

And for those who tell you to be a firefighter, well they have stuff they bitch about too..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17wqbXR8nT0
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 10:39:19 AM EDT
[#19]
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If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?
View Quote




I've been on the job 15 years.  I've worked patrol, supervisor in patrol, narcotics, and detective.  I still go in to make a difference.  The only change for me since I started in LE is that I don't come in to work to save the world any more.  I just come to work to save a tiny portion of it.  

Think about it this way....WWII...there were lots of troops in combat doing amazing, heroic things.  But, think about this....how many Americans were working in factories making equipment for the war effort or loading ships to send equipment to the troops?  Americans who never once experienced being shot at or shooting back.  Did that guy who spent all of WWII loading ships make a difference?  Was he a hero to the war effort?  Well, he doesn't have any medals to show or war wounds to suffer, but he is just as equally important to get the credit for the winning of the war as the soldier or Marine who saw the worst combat of the war.  Because, without him/her the war would never have been won.  

If you go out to make a difference in your small piece of society, and so does every other officer out there, then big changes happen.  If you sit around and bitch that you're not making any difference, then you are just another one of those drone RODs that every department has too many of.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 11:01:46 AM EDT
[#20]
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Seek new friends.
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2nd post nails it.  

Be a firemen if you want to serve your community.  Less ass ache and anguish.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 11:09:26 AM EDT
[#21]
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It's true that often times you will make zero difference in anyone's life.  

But sometimes you do.   If you can live with the fact that life will often dissapoint, but that every once in a while you will be surprised by a moment of gratitude or satisfaction I think it's a great career.  

From the perspective of a small jurisdiction prosecutor I can tell you there are officers who are great and there are officers who  are terrible.

The burn out cases are often terrible.   "The prosecutor dismissed my case, what an asshole...what's the point of doing anything?"

Well, I called you twice.  Asked you to shore up the case.   You failed to respond to a subpoena.  You failed to disclose discovery in a timely manner, and you write like a 3rd grader.   So... yeah.  

Likewise there are some incompetant prosecutors.  Sometimes just overworked.   Sometimes a combination.

The great officers are thurough, organized, write well, don't take everything as a personal affront and professional.  They will also come see me and talk to me about cases of particular importance.

So, know who you are, stay grounded and be a professional.  
View Quote



Wow, it's rare that I do get a call from the DA's office.  I have to make a point to run into them and hand them a packet.  For a while our agency even had a form to fill out with the charge and all the elements of the crime and cite where the case met all the elements.  Time consuming in the format we had but it did help prosecutors understand the case.  BTW I work specialty LE and not your normal penal/criminal law.

I've been burned out before and change something to relight the fires.  Try to remember that I do it for the public and not the agency itself.   Some agencies will use you up without regard that they are burning you out.  They all have spreadsheets and productivity goals (but no quotas)
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 11:12:02 AM EDT
[#22]
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Seek new friends.
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Yep.

I would never suggest such shit to a friend. I would steer him away from it, actually.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.
View Quote


What part of Arkansas? DM if you want, I'm in central. I would suggest joining you local SO reserve unit. It will give you a taste before you walk away from a career you've built. If it's still what you want after a few years you will be top of the list for hiring.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 8:13:55 PM EDT
[#24]
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Yep.

I would never suggest such shit to a friend. I would steer him away from it, actually.
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Quoted:
Seek new friends.


Yep.

I would never suggest such shit to a friend. I would steer him away from it, actually.

I know where he would be serving,  that's the difference.  
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 8:51:49 PM EDT
[#25]
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What part of Arkansas? DM if you want, I'm in central. I would suggest joining you local SO reserve unit. It will give you a taste before you walk away from a career you've built. If it's still what you want after a few years you will be top of the list for hiring.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.


What part of Arkansas? DM if you want, I'm in central. I would suggest joining you local SO reserve unit. It will give you a taste before you walk away from a career you've built. If it's still what you want after a few years you will be top of the list for hiring.


Washington County. I think i'd rather be a deputy than a Springdale officer though, despite the benefits.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 9:17:38 PM EDT
[#26]
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Reference the part in red.....that's what we do.  We are the problem solvers of society.  What's even more fun is that after we show up, listen to their problems, and then give them a solution, they get angry with the solution and then get mad at us!  If you don't like sorting out people's drama, you won't like being a cop...because that's a large portion of what we do...and then you get to go write a report about it!

Personally, I like dealing with people's problems.  Maybe I'm weird.  I show up, spend time talking to people, and usually come up with a solution.  I did have a couple neighbors who couldn't resolve their problems themselves.  I presented the solution and they still didn't want it.  So I told them, "You don't want the solution, you're just wanting to bitch to me about the other neighbor.  Since you won't be part of the solution, then there is nothing I can do to solve your problems.  Sort it out yourselves."  I then got in my car and left.  I'll spend a long time helping someone out who is willing to listen and willing to be a solution to their own issues.  If you refuse my advise, then I'm not going to waste my time any further.  

As far as management, some are awesome and some are terrible.  I've worked for both.  I used to work for a smaller city PD.  Started with a terrible chief, got a great one, then got a terrible one again....worse than the first.  Luckily my immediate supervisor was fantastic.  I finally had enough and moved on to a larger sheriff's office.  Love it where I'm at now.  We have a handful of poor supervisors but most are great to work for.  There are a few things I'd improve if given a choice but overall, it's a fantastic place to work.  

If you study your job, go to as much training as you can, read police science books, read laws, read court cases, and read judicial decisions (I do...as I said, I'm weird) and learn your job as best you can, you will rarely get much flack from your supervisors.  My supervisors rarely question my decisions....because they know my decision will be a well reasoned, well thought out decision that is based in the laws and current judicial guidance.  I also like to call prosecutors and ask them what they want to see with a case so if questioned by my supervisor, I can tell the supervisor that this guidance came from the prosecutor.  

This job is what you make of it.  To be fair, I would not want to work in an inner city dealing 100% with blacks.  It would definitely cloud my outlook.  We don't deal with too many blacks were I work (I work mostly rural and let's be honest, blacks typically don't like the country...except for that one nice black family we have that lives far out in the country...they moved there for a reason...to escape the inner city madness) but the ones we do have given me enough taste of them that I can see why many officers become very racist.  It's hard, if not impossible, not to.

You'll probably get some posts and comments from officers we like to call RODs.  Retired on Duty.  The prosecutor a few posts above this one alluded to them.  We have a few where I work.  They never stop complaining no matter how good things are going and they do as little work as possible.  Every department has drones like them.  Everything about this job is terrible according to them.  There are things I don't like about my job...but then if I was making widgets in a factory, there would be something I didn't like.  Overall though, in spite of all the crap going on, I still love my job and enjoy going in to work every day.  

You really should do a ridealong with an agency to see what it's all about.  Hopefully, you won't get that burned out ROD to ride with.  

And for those who tell you to be a firefighter, well they have stuff they bitch about too..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17wqbXR8nT0
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies.

This may sound silly, but much of what you guys talk about I saw shadows of as a city bus driver (actually, for the UofA in Fayetteville, but it was the de facto city service). There were people that just droned about and then there were the people we had to babysit (and a metric shitload of hot coeds ). And then it only got worse when the Katrina Refugees moved up. About 1/10 viewed it as a fresh start and genuinely used it that way. 2/10 were just lazy, soaking up bennies, and the others resumed their uselessness or genuine nefarity with no change but to their geographic latitude.

To top it off, I would be a jailer for a year before patrol. I hope you guys won't think less of me, but i'm really not looking forward to a career of sorting out people's drama and lack of parental skill, on their part or the product of their parents' poor parenting 10-40 years prior (aside from genuine bad eggs, which we all expected to see before we even filled out an application). I'll keep looking into it, but I go with the jaundiced view I expected to have from the replies of you veteran officers. (Which is what I wanted, I hate sugarcoating).


How many problems do you usually get from management, be they micromanagement, lack of any management, or retarded politics that make you realize that you have essentially no backup for your actions?



Reference the part in red.....that's what we do.  We are the problem solvers of society.  What's even more fun is that after we show up, listen to their problems, and then give them a solution, they get angry with the solution and then get mad at us!  If you don't like sorting out people's drama, you won't like being a cop...because that's a large portion of what we do...and then you get to go write a report about it!

Personally, I like dealing with people's problems.  Maybe I'm weird.  I show up, spend time talking to people, and usually come up with a solution.  I did have a couple neighbors who couldn't resolve their problems themselves.  I presented the solution and they still didn't want it.  So I told them, "You don't want the solution, you're just wanting to bitch to me about the other neighbor.  Since you won't be part of the solution, then there is nothing I can do to solve your problems.  Sort it out yourselves."  I then got in my car and left.  I'll spend a long time helping someone out who is willing to listen and willing to be a solution to their own issues.  If you refuse my advise, then I'm not going to waste my time any further.  

As far as management, some are awesome and some are terrible.  I've worked for both.  I used to work for a smaller city PD.  Started with a terrible chief, got a great one, then got a terrible one again....worse than the first.  Luckily my immediate supervisor was fantastic.  I finally had enough and moved on to a larger sheriff's office.  Love it where I'm at now.  We have a handful of poor supervisors but most are great to work for.  There are a few things I'd improve if given a choice but overall, it's a fantastic place to work.  

If you study your job, go to as much training as you can, read police science books, read laws, read court cases, and read judicial decisions (I do...as I said, I'm weird) and learn your job as best you can, you will rarely get much flack from your supervisors.  My supervisors rarely question my decisions....because they know my decision will be a well reasoned, well thought out decision that is based in the laws and current judicial guidance.  I also like to call prosecutors and ask them what they want to see with a case so if questioned by my supervisor, I can tell the supervisor that this guidance came from the prosecutor.  

This job is what you make of it.  To be fair, I would not want to work in an inner city dealing 100% with blacks.  It would definitely cloud my outlook.  We don't deal with too many blacks were I work (I work mostly rural and let's be honest, blacks typically don't like the country...except for that one nice black family we have that lives far out in the country...they moved there for a reason...to escape the inner city madness) but the ones we do have given me enough taste of them that I can see why many officers become very racist.  It's hard, if not impossible, not to.

You'll probably get some posts and comments from officers we like to call RODs.  Retired on Duty.  The prosecutor a few posts above this one alluded to them.  We have a few where I work.  They never stop complaining no matter how good things are going and they do as little work as possible.  Every department has drones like them.  Everything about this job is terrible according to them.  There are things I don't like about my job...but then if I was making widgets in a factory, there would be something I didn't like.  Overall though, in spite of all the crap going on, I still love my job and enjoy going in to work every day.  

You really should do a ridealong with an agency to see what it's all about.  Hopefully, you won't get that burned out ROD to ride with.  

And for those who tell you to be a firefighter, well they have stuff they bitch about too..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17wqbXR8nT0



Thanks!

I like problem solving, and I too tend to nerd out about stuff I like (ask Dusty) and do keep up with the laws and cases as they pertain to my interests.  I don't know why "sort it out yourselves, peace out" as an option didn't occur to me.... I would have to learn how to control my Resting Bitch Face with so.much public interaction though. I tend to wear my "You're retarded " face rather prominently too.

The derelicts of society here are the meth heads, large Hispanic population, and Marshalese. 90% of the last two just want to drone about to and fro like normal people.  I mostly want to be a CSO Deputy because at least as far as i'm concerned, you really have to be screwing up to get on their radar. (Don't hold my politics against me ) But I essentially want to be what I want cops to be, a libertarian Sheriff Taylor. If you're not hurting someone or seriously endangering life, I really don't think you ought to be in handcuffs (granted, there are exceptions to every philosophy...as Captain Barbossa said, they're more of what you'd call guidelines).
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 9:23:07 PM EDT
[#27]
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As career guys, we probably won't be able to talk you out of it so you'll just have to figure all this stuff out for yourself.

With that said, the same people who are screaming for help on the phone are the same people who say "f the police" while giving you dirt looks as you're driving by. They don't want you around but will be the first to call for a $1,000 ambulance ride because their stomach hurts or they got an ash tray to the face and want someone removed from the house.

My girlfriend worked intake at the local Trauma ER before switching to the OB/GYN hospital here...there's lots of those.

You will mostly deal with the  same people over and over again. Once you get past the 10 year mark, you'll begin to arrest their kids and the cycle continues. I've only worked for one chief who I knew had my back. The rest are empty suits who forgot what it was like to ride a beat a long time ago. They're yes men to the city council/mayor even when they come up with stuff that makes no sense what so ever to the people who are actually doing the job. If you get a baseless complaint filed against you, you better hope you're covered by a body/dash camera because you're going to be thrown under the bus whether you're innocent or not. An administrator's job is to cover his ass/department first and everything else comes second. There are exceptions, of course.

On a positive note, the majority of the population supports LE. They just aren't a very vocal bunch because they actually have to work like we do and go to sleep at normal times compared to the shitheads.

Have fun!
View Quote



The no cover from.management is a legit concern of mine. I got an administrator when I drove a bus that took every complaint as legit, we were guilty no matter the proof on our side. He even had people ride for anonymous reports, and they were paid for more reports. He enjoyed running the place like it was his personal wing of the KGB.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 9:44:09 PM EDT
[#28]
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Seek new friends.
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Yep, friends don't tell friends to be cops in the 21st century.  Friends tell you to pick a better career.  Hose dragger, ambulance jockey, dog walker, man whore or pimp.
Link Posted: 7/11/2016 10:13:53 PM EDT
[#29]

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Quoted:

The no cover from.management is a legit concern of mine. I got an administrator when I drove a bus that took every complaint as legit, we were guilty no matter the proof on our side. He even had people ride for anonymous reports, and they were paid for more reports. He enjoyed running the place like it was his personal wing of the KGB.
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Yep! Same BS, different job.
Link Posted: 7/12/2016 12:50:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.
View Quote

Do you work out/exercise?
I'm not saying that truckers don't exercise, but take a look at physical fitness qualifications for the law enforcement agencies that you are interested in applying and see if you are able to pass those tests. A number of qualified people don't even get an interview because they did not pass the physical fitness test of the application process.
The PT, physical training, during academy was multiple times more demanding than the test.

If you do make it to the personal interview step of the application process, you may be asked questions related to personal conflict with laws.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#31]


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As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.





I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.





Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.





The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.





TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.


 
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Quoted:


I don't care what your friend thinks. Why do YOU think a law enforcement career is for you?  What about it appeals to you?



For others, I'd like to do something that makes a difference. I know that sounds trite, but I've spent eleven years driving a truck, feeling like a drone. I buzz to and fro, but never really impact anyone outside of traffic. Yes, someone has eaten.the food, used the copper, the televisions, used the oil I've hauled...but there's no sense of actually impacting someone positively.






On a personal level, I am tired of the cop bashing. I'm tired of people accusing you all of horseshit, when there are so few that actually deserve the abuse of the public scrutiny when the media decides to try you. I'd like to do something to help, on the front lines and amongst my aquaintences that usually see me as level-headed and intelligent. I want to improve the brand, if you will by being an ambassador to those that question certain actions of the police. I want to actually feel like i'm working for a reason beyond my paycheck. And, with Dallas in mind, I'd like to be able to do something if things get worse. I'd like to stop feeling sidelined while you guys are out there putting it on the line.





Hauling oil in ND was ok, because I was a well-paid drone. Now i'm hauling oil in OK for the same wage that apparently a rookie jailer/patrolman makes back home for the local County Sheriff. If the pay is the same, it may as well mean something...and it might be a career I like.



As the late, great, Pat Rogers would commonly say, policing is regional. You might live in a tight knit, rural area where you could find more opportunity to assist others. I don't know, and I have no experience with that kind of police work.





I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.





Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.





The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.





TLDR: Be a fireman, everybody loves them, they save peoples lives all the time, and they can sleep at work. If you still think you want to be a cop, I suggest you read a novel called The Choirboys. It is dated, but still relevant. If you finish it with a sick grin on your face, you will make it to retirement. If it you think it's outlandish and a little disturbing, be a fireman.


 


Great post.





A friend recommended the Choirboys a couple of years before I was hired, probably for the reasons you mentioned.  A little dated, but if you can get past the "revolvers" and "call boxes", it could take place in any big city today.  I thought it was a great book and have passed it on you friends who are thinking about applying.  I read and reread the book before I was hired, as a probationary officer, and when I had 4-5 years on.  I pulled something different from it each time.  Also recommended the New Centurions and the Blue Knight.




 




 
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 11:23:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life.
View Quote

This....

Quoted:
If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?
View Quote

...and this....

Quoted:
I would never suggest such shit to a friend. I would steer him away from it, actually.
View Quote

...and this.
Link Posted: 7/13/2016 12:25:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yep, friends don't tell friends to be cops in the 21st century.  Friends tell you to pick a better career.  Hose dragger, ambulance jockey, dog walker, man whore or pimp.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Seek new friends.

Yep, friends don't tell friends to be cops in the 21st century.  Friends tell you to pick a better career.  Hose dragger, ambulance jockey, dog walker, man whore or pimp.



Best payout is running a few boatloads of blow up over the border.  Keep out of the blow, know when to retire.  Enjoy your boat.

Did OP shoot a dog in front of this person?  


Link Posted: 7/14/2016 9:49:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seek new friends.
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/14/2016 9:55:10 PM EDT
[#35]
In the South?  Fuck no!  Most agencies don't pay piddly dick down there.
Link Posted: 7/14/2016 10:00:03 PM EDT
[#36]
And anyone that suggests to be a fireman should be punched in the dick.  Fuck that work.  Ninety percent of the time, they deal with the same assholes and hazards that cops do.  Unless you're deranged, stay the fuck out of civil service for the next five to infinity years.
Link Posted: 7/16/2016 2:59:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Do you work out/exercise?
I'm not saying that truckers don't exercise, but take a look at physical fitness qualifications for the law enforcement agencies that you are interested in applying and see if you are able to pass those tests. A number of qualified people don't even get an interview because they did not pass the physical fitness test of the application process.
The PT, physical training, during academy was multiple times more demanding than the test.

If you do make it to the personal interview step of the application process, you may be asked questions related to personal conflict with laws.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.

Do you work out/exercise?
I'm not saying that truckers don't exercise, but take a look at physical fitness qualifications for the law enforcement agencies that you are interested in applying and see if you are able to pass those tests. A number of qualified people don't even get an interview because they did not pass the physical fitness test of the application process.
The PT, physical training, during academy was multiple times more demanding than the test.

If you do make it to the personal interview step of the application process, you may be asked questions related to personal conflict with laws.



The PT does concern me, and if i'm honest I avoid running like the plague. I work out in small amounts to add to my weight loss, but not much beyond some situps, pushups, and curls. I'm adding lunges soon, despite my utter disdain for them.

The personal conflict with laws is a good point.
Link Posted: 7/16/2016 3:16:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Is your friend actually a cop?  Lots of the general public think they know a lot about LE...but they don't.
Link Posted: 7/19/2016 1:00:34 AM EDT
[#39]
I,ve been a cop for almost 32 years, and just retired, June 30th of this year.
I almost quit 3 times in that 32 years.
Each time was because of internal bullshit, not external, and not because of the top person.
In that 32 years, I never had a chief or sheriff who would not go to bat for for an officer who was doing his job correctly.

Only you can answer that question of, "Would I make a good cop"?
Let me tell you if you stay for a career, you will see things that at first shock you, then you will shake your head at, then you will just shrug and move to the next call.

The worst for me was the injured kids, either by their parents hand, or by someone else.
I have seen people die, burn to death, even held a couple while they died, then had to tell the families they went quickly when I knew better.

I worked patrol,was a resident deputy, patrol supervisor, SWAT, deputy-coroner, narcotics, was a detective supervisor for a time, and was a chief of police once by my own foolishness and second time for a year  because my chief got fired. That was only because I was the senior guy in the agency.

I even worked homicide for a few years on a multi-jurisdictional task force. Out of all the above areas I worked in, I think that held the most satisfaction, because when you caught someone and they were convicted, you did make a difference.
The other was as a resident deputy. No immediate supervisor, made my own schedule, and as long as I kept my patrol area in good shape, and did my paperwork, my boss was happy, which made the voters happy.

But, as others have said, if you think for a hot minute you are going to "clean up the world, or get rid of the evil in human beings", find something else to do, because this will drive you nuts.
I have seen officers who can't handle the job, the hours, incredible time away from family with missed kids games, etc, the call loads, and or the nightmares if they come, turn to things they should not, or take their own life if it is bad enough.

I know all of this sounds gloom and doom, but in 32 years, I have never seen things as bad as they are now.

But know this, if you stay very level headed, take care of your own little section of the world, and keep your reputation clean, it is a most satisfying and very fulfilling career.

Now, if my son or daughter said they were going to do it, well, I would make it plain, it isn't for them.



Link Posted: 7/20/2016 11:46:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The PT does concern me, and if i'm honest I avoid running like the plague. I work out in small amounts to add to my weight loss, but not much beyond some situps, pushups, and curls. I'm adding lunges soon, despite my utter disdain for them.

The personal conflict with laws is a good point.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So I decided to research it, and aside from my state's academy website and the local CSO hiring page, I thought I'd get a few opinions here on what it takes to do the job and do it well. I'll be happy to give a few personal details if that would help. I want to actually do something that means something, even if its got a boatload of tedious paperwork.

And as a personal issue, how do you deal with the conflict of laws you disagree with (and do you let it be known during the job, during interviews, etc) that you have to enforce? Say, busting a kid with a pipe in his bag in the rear seat (in plain view) during a traffic stop, or a roach in his pocket during a B&E? Do you have discretion to tell them to "get rid of it" or just not see it?  

Thanks in advance.

Do you work out/exercise?
I'm not saying that truckers don't exercise, but take a look at physical fitness qualifications for the law enforcement agencies that you are interested in applying and see if you are able to pass those tests. A number of qualified people don't even get an interview because they did not pass the physical fitness test of the application process.
The PT, physical training, during academy was multiple times more demanding than the test.

If you do make it to the personal interview step of the application process, you may be asked questions related to personal conflict with laws.



The PT does concern me, and if i'm honest I avoid running like the plague. I work out in small amounts to add to my weight loss, but not much beyond some situps, pushups, and curls. I'm adding lunges soon, despite my utter disdain for them.

The personal conflict with laws is a good point.

Are you okay with a 3 mile continuous run?
Every police academy is going to be different, but the PT cadre/instructors in our academy pushed us physically. Although not everyone could keep up with the instructor, they would split up the group into a faster group and a slower group. The faster group would be able to run a faster pace and the slower group completed the same distance at a slower pace.
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 9:55:52 PM EDT
[#41]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?
View Quote




 
I still think it, after 16 years on the job.  So don't be such a pessimist.  
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 11:40:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies.

This may sound silly, but much of what you guys talk about I saw shadows of as a city bus driver (actually, for the UofA in Fayetteville, but it was the de facto city service). There were people that just droned about and then there were the people we had to babysit (and a metric shitload of hot coeds ). And then it only got worse when the Katrina Refugees moved up. About 1/10 viewed it as a fresh start and genuinely used it that way. 2/10 were just lazy, soaking up bennies, and the others resumed their uselessness or genuine nefarity with no change but to their geographic latitude.

To top it off, I would be a jailer for a year before patrol. I hope you guys won't think less of me, but i'm really not looking forward to a career of sorting out people's drama and lack of parental skill, on their part or the product of their parents' poor parenting 10-40 years prior (aside from genuine bad eggs, which we all expected to see before we even filled out an application). I'll keep looking into it, but I go with the jaundiced view I expected to have from the replies of you veteran officers. (Which is what I wanted, I hate sugarcoating).


How many problems do you usually get from management, be they micromanagement, lack of any management, or retarded politics that make you realize that you have essentially no backup for your actions?
View Quote


That is not necessarily a bad thing - in fact, there are some real benefits to starting in the jail.
Link Posted: 8/18/2016 11:45:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That is not necessarily a bad thing - in fact, there are some real benefits to starting in the jail.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies.

This may sound silly, but much of what you guys talk about I saw shadows of as a city bus driver (actually, for the UofA in Fayetteville, but it was the de facto city service). There were people that just droned about and then there were the people we had to babysit (and a metric shitload of hot coeds ). And then it only got worse when the Katrina Refugees moved up. About 1/10 viewed it as a fresh start and genuinely used it that way. 2/10 were just lazy, soaking up bennies, and the others resumed their uselessness or genuine nefarity with no change but to their geographic latitude.

To top it off, I would be a jailer for a year before patrol. I hope you guys won't think less of me, but i'm really not looking forward to a career of sorting out people's drama and lack of parental skill, on their part or the product of their parents' poor parenting 10-40 years prior (aside from genuine bad eggs, which we all expected to see before we even filled out an application). I'll keep looking into it, but I go with the jaundiced view I expected to have from the replies of you veteran officers. (Which is what I wanted, I hate sugarcoating).


How many problems do you usually get from management, be they micromanagement, lack of any management, or retarded politics that make you realize that you have essentially no backup for your actions?


That is not necessarily a bad thing - in fact, there are some real benefits to starting in the jail.

As an outsider, for years I've watched deputies come to the street, some from the jail, some from other agencies, and some from McDonald's.  Without question, guys that have done a year or two in the jail are far ahead of the ones that come straight from civilian life.  They generally are pretty good at dealing with shitheads already.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 3:18:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  I still think it, after 16 years on the job.  So don't be such a pessimist.  
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?

  I still think it, after 16 years on the job.  So don't be such a pessimist.  


The RODs usually out themselves when posting. It's easy to pick them out.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 4:12:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The RODs usually out themselves when posting. It's easy to pick them out.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?

  I still think it, after 16 years on the job.  So don't be such a pessimist.  


The RODs usually out themselves when posting. It's easy to pick them out.


Far from a ROD, just have no illusions about the being a cog in the machine. No disrespect to aztrooper, but the difference between working for municipal agencies versus county versus highway patrol are worlds apart. I've even considered making the switch to my cowboy hat and tight pants wearing brethren for a change in pace.

Maybe my post wasn't as clear, but this is worth repeating

I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.

Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.

The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.


If the OP is lucky enough to work in Mayberry where he can truly "make a difference", then I wish him the best of luck.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 2:27:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Far from a ROD, just have no illusions about the being a cog in the machine. No disrespect to aztrooper, but the difference between working for municipal agencies versus county versus highway patrol are worlds apart. I've even considered making the switch to my cowboy hat and tight pants wearing brethren for a change in pace.

Maybe my post wasn't as clear, but this is worth repeating



If the OP is lucky enough to work in Mayberry where he can truly "make a difference", then I wish him the best of luck.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you "want to make a difference", go be a fire-fighter. Seriously. I'm not saying that to be glib or edgy. Any hope of "making a difference" will last about a week on the job, and after it's gone then what?

  I still think it, after 16 years on the job.  So don't be such a pessimist.  


The RODs usually out themselves when posting. It's easy to pick them out.


Far from a ROD, just have no illusions about the being a cog in the machine. No disrespect to aztrooper, but the difference between working for municipal agencies versus county versus highway patrol are worlds apart. I've even considered making the switch to my cowboy hat and tight pants wearing brethren for a change in pace.

Maybe my post wasn't as clear, but this is worth repeating

I'll be bluntly honest with you: You will very rarely "make a difference" in law enforcement, or more accurately big city police work. We are a social band aid for problems we can't solve. As a patrol officer your job is essentially to be the cartoon character who plugs one leak with his finger then another springs up and you know how the gag goes from there. In general, you will walk in and out of other people's lives and drama and try to find a way to calm everyone down so they stop calling 911 so that you can go do the same for thousands of other faceless people who suck at life. This general monotony is punctuated by very brief instances of excitement, anger, sorrow, happiness, and occasionally fear.

Helping people? Again, blunt honesty: Lots of people will call to report property crimes. You will take diligent reports so they can file an insurance claim and forget all about it. You will take violent crime reports where people tell you, in the heat of the moment, that they want to file charges on the transient/doper/asshole that punched them. They will then blow it off and the case will never make trial. You will arrest genuine felons who belong in prison or in the ground and the cases will more often then not fail to produce meaningful results thanks to permissive judges and incompetent prosecutors.

The reasons you want to get into policing are what hiring boards want to hear. They are also the reasons the nice guy cops burn out as their illusions about the job are shattered on the jagged rocks of reality. You must also learn to assume that the department doesn't care about you at best, and actively resents you at worst, until they prove otherwise, especially in today's political climate.


If the OP is lucky enough to work in Mayberry where he can truly "make a difference", then I wish him the best of luck.



So....why have law enforcement at all if it's hopeless?
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 2:34:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So....why have law enforcement at all if it's hopeless?
View Quote



Same reason you have grocery bag people. It's a job.
Link Posted: 8/19/2016 3:05:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

So....why have law enforcement at all if it's hopeless?
View Quote


Huh? Show me where exactly I said that.
Link Posted: 8/20/2016 4:34:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:


Huh? Show me where exactly I said that.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

So....why have law enforcement at all if it's hopeless?


Huh? Show me where exactly I said that.



Re-read your post.
Link Posted: 8/20/2016 4:35:30 AM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:



Same reason you have grocery bag people. It's a job.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

So....why have law enforcement at all if it's hopeless?



Same reason you have grocery bag people. It's a job.



Ahhh. See my post above about RODs.
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