I'm a full time 911 paramedic in Albuquerque. Unfortunately, we like other metro EMS systems are seeing an increase in violence. Both generalized and directed at first responders. I am beginning to see the case for a rapid placed external plate carrier/body armor. This post has 2 purposes; to take the temp of other first responders re: increasing violence and our responses to it. Also looking at practical applications and opinions of soft vs. plates, etc.

If I had to honestly rank myself, I am about a 4/10 on the Ricky Rescue gear-whore scale. I appreciate cutting edge equipment, provided it serves a purpose. I'm also a 'cry once' type for for clothing and equipment.

My projected set up would be a very civilian-ized version, including CAT tourniquet poucheses/attachments, as well as sundry trauma dressings/gauze and pens, sharpies, light etc.

Expected use would be sketchy calls in sketchy areas, donning during response.

Is anyone else thinking the same way, or already have a set-up they like?

FWIW, I got my first EMT B license in 1988, Paramedic in 1990-1991. I've got 11 years full time street metro EMS. I am fully cognizant of the fail-points inherent to the blind trust in others providing for my security on calls.  I've heard opinions (from students and new-hires) that include, "I just don't enter an unsafe scene", and find IMHO, that these are not reflected in reality. Shit happens and it's usually stinkier on those that are not prepared.

So...... is it time to get more prepared?

Thanks in advance for thoughts and opinions.

My partner recently started wearing his body armor on every call.  We are issued body armor but only required to wear it on calls that warrant it.  A local F.D. recently started wearing it on every callout.  There has been a notable increase violence and the general attitudes of the people we encounter.  Coincidentally, the majority of the local population are blacks.  I'm sure that's racist but I thought I'd mention it.

I am still finishing up medic school, but I have always been interested in this.  The place where I ride right now doesn't require it.  That being said, it seems about a quarter of the medics I see or have worked with wear a vest in an external carrier.  No one is wearing an actual plate carrier and no one seems to have anything extra hanging on it.

I am 50/50 on wearing one when I actually get hired somewhere.  I wear one as a reserve police officer so I already have one, but I would have to wear it concealed or get two different external carriers and constantly be switching them (or just buy 2 )

Get a level 2 soft armor and wear it every single day concealed.  Put some of the rigid protech plates in it for high threat rounds.  Also put a personal trauma kit in the plate pocket.

Imo, thinking you will be able to throw a vest on before you need it is like thinking you can see a car accident becoming likely and throw a seat belt on before it happens.  I wouldnt count on it.

My agency mandated every medic wears their issued soft body armor at all times a few years back. Even before that I wore my armor all the time anyways

I don't disagree that things are more violent/dangerous as of late but I don't see the need for plates unless you're on a Tac med team. In "sketchy areas" I think regular armor should more than cut it. Plates are for rifle threats. There was a volly FF EMT shot here on Long Island a few years back but it happened in a nice neighborhood, not a "sketchy area." Truthfully, I just assume every area is sketchy regardless of the sociolo-economic strata we're responding to.

Some plates don't like getting banged around. Constant donning/doffing can beget damage if dropped or knocked around. Working an arrest with with an extra 10-14 pounds strapped to your chest may suck. I'd hate to be scrubbing blood/vomick/muck off the carrier, pouches or MOLLE webbing. I don't know your uniform scheme but a plate carrier may give you a more LEO appearance that may not be desired. When I worked in Brooklyn there was generally no LE on calls with us. And I sure as shit didn't want to look like an LEO. Looking markedly different t from co workers in a crowd may be of concern to some people.


If I did have a plate carrier outfitted with all the Tac goodies it'd sit in my gear bag waiting for an active shooter call.

NYC EMS92-96, civi EMT-P for a LE agency since 96.

Stay safe out there.

It would be nice to at least have the option.

I think your idea is great. I worked full time EMS for 10 years before becoming a LEO. I no longer work EMS, however, I still keep my paramedic license up to date. Once I became a police officer, I realized the danger involved in EMS response. It is true that you can request police response from dispatch, but as you know, a "routine" call can go sideways very quickly. The only time I wore body armor was when I was doing a standby to assist our county SWAT team. In hindsight, I should have been wearing a vest under my uniform shirt at all times, it never hurts and you never know who is plotting to kill a first responder. I can remember a few times when my partner and I responded to a "man down" and it ended up being a homicide, we had not police protection. You should continue your plan and be prepared. Good luck, stay safe.

I own armor and have for some time, even though we are not issued it via , the talk has been going on for a while now that we are all going to be sporting Kevlar very shortly. Although it can be, correction it is a big pain in the, its time....
 

ETA: Still maintain my CC cert although not affiliated for some time. EMS 16 years and counting.

A concealment type vest would fit your needs better.
You're more likely to be shot at via a pistol caliber weapon and wearing a PC would actually give you less coverage, less mobility and comfort and offer no more protection from the threat you are most likely to encounter.



If you're in a situation where you need rifle plates you should be unassing the AO.

Can someone recommend a concealable soft armor?

Might want to take a look at the US Palm "Defender" series. I traded for one of the front-only sets a while back and it's solid gear. It's really "vitals only" soft armor, but easy to toss on over something. They aren't NIJ-rated because the coverage doesn't meet requirements, but the soft plate is supposed to be IIIA.

If you're looking for full-time wear, I'd ask some of the gun-luggers for their experience - and be prepared to open your wallet.

I have brought it up to the powers that be......they see no need.  Several of our surround depts have gone to issuing soft armor and wear as you see fit.  I am thinking I may just buy my own as there are times I get to a scene before the rig.

Ask your local PD what they are issued. We use point blank lvl IIa

I have nothing to add, but are EMT's allowed to be armed in some way? Or does the gooberment except ya'll to go into harms way with no defense?

Pretty much every agency I've worked with prohibits fire and EMS staff from being armed beyond "essential tools" - i.e., Leatherman, pocket knife, etc. I have heard of some that wink-and-smile about a discreetly carried can of spray or even a J-frame or pocket auto... but that's all anecdotal.

Complete bullshit that EMT's are expected to go into harm's way without having an AR15 or something mounted in every ambulance..

While I understand the sentiment, the logistics are ... complicated. And then it becomes an issue of asking EMS to respond as ... what? Law enforcement? Why did they start down the EMS career path? To help people or carry a rifle? If there's an active shooter on the next block, are you expecting the EMS crew to try to neutralize the shooter, or to try to cover themselves while treating/removing patients? Are people going to stop calling for an ambulance when JimBob OD'd because the medic has a rifle? Is he a cop or a medic? Is he help or threat?

When I was doing EMS, 90% of my attention on scene was on what the patient was telling me - both verbally and non-verbally. Keeping your head on a swivel means missing some of what's needed to treat a patient.

I think all crews should be able (or required) to wear a proper vest, and carry some kind of self-defense tools. What those are? WAY over my pay grade. (Look to the ones who put "Esq" after their names for this answer.)

I also think EMS companies need to provide more and better training on self defense, scene awareness, and the like. And EMS crews need to use better judgment on what calls they run in to... "It's not my emergency, I didn't create the situation, and if I get hurt in there I'm not fixing a damn thing."

I'm not suggesting that they go out and actively respond to a shooting, but if someone is shooting at them, it's only logical that one could shoot back while another is getting the patient into the ambulance...
I agree though, it's a complicated issue, which is why I think a rifle in the vehicle would be more appropriate than a pistol on the hip.

While Detroit and Fallujah have a lot in common, I can't foresee any kind of situation where we'd be loading a patient and taking incoming fire.

In my jurisdiction if the medics were armed I'd half expect them to start shooting at us.

You have some very progressive departments who allow the Medics to carry a taser. But that is very rare, I have had a call go sideways and got injured on a call.  I have had 3 surgeries to try to repair all the damage.

Our EMT's don't go on active calls or calls that sound sketchy until LEO's get there and radio that its safe for them to enter.   And that can be anything from someone over-dosing in a house to someone overly intoxicated siting on the side of the road. The only calls they usually respond to without us is if its a car crash or if its medical problems not related to drugs/alcohol.


They arrive somewhere with a hostile individual or crowd they'll say screw it and drive off until PD gets there and makes sure its safe. If someone is on the ground bleeding out and they think it could be dangerous they'll sit a block or two away... If they scene stays active/dangerous for an hour they'll sit there for that long.



Can't say I blame emmm. If you are unarmed/your policy/SOP's won't really allow you to do anything vs an aggressive individual you might as well just wait till its safe. Honestly body armor is damn near useless without a gun IMO.


Fire and EMS have police with them on at least 90% of their calls here.

What you get called out for and what you find can be two different things.  When I was assaulted and injured we were called for a elderly fall at an apartment complex. What it was for a junkie trying to rob us for drugs.

Hi there!
bad times for EMS if you have to wear armor.
I am just a EMT-B with the PD but I have to do 80h a year with the FD which is doing the EMS in Berlin.
At least over here the PD will be the first one on the scene in 80% of the calls.
And the EMS/FD here have strict rules not to enter the area if there is still police business to do.

Your question:
I would go with soft armor. Maybe level IIIA that gives you a good material own stab protection without having to be ratet as one.
How about putting it in a carrier that has the colors of your EMS? You could put it on the back part of your driver/co-driver seat, leave one side open, the velcro of the closure tucked inside, so you could throw it over in seconds if you believe that you need it.
Even if you want to carry all the time, I believe a vest in your EMS colors, worn over your shirt would be a good solution.
You can take it of between the calls and doing CPR for 45min wearing your vest could be a PITA.

Can you carry at work? Having a G19 in your EMS/Blue fanny-pack would not draw to much attention.

Just my 0.02 euro-cent

Rob

My $.02 - background: I'm a 7 year volunteer EMT in a sleepy little town of about 45,000 people.  Every 7 years we have a "mass shooting" per the FBIs definition of 4 or more people killed in a single event.  I don't know why it's every 7 years, but it happens to be that way.  I missed the one 7 years ago - joined just after.   I played a much more active role in the most recent one.  My experience was that the cops gave the OK to respond to our scenes without any idea where the shooter was - not their fault: it was chaotic and he was highly mobile.  I exited our response vehicle checking everybody's hands and all the nearby windows for weapons as we had no idea if there was 1 shooter or several.  I recall feeling naked as I hustled to the cover of the scene building hoping I didn't hear more gun shots or feel round hitting me in the back.  

Therefore: I have soft armor I wear on most calls when I have the option and I have a somewhat discreet plate carrier to be donned if I am worried about that kind of threat.  I would like to have a low profile PC to be worn all the time, but I got what I could afford.  I plan to upgrade as funds allow.  It is not a common thing, but becoming more common.  My wife was worried that day that I wouldn't make it home.  Not something I want to allow and other than quitting EMS (haha!) wearing armor is a safe and reasonable solution.

Check out AR500armor.com - they have great deals on level III+ plates and carriers (will stop threats up to 7.62x51 aka .308 Winchester).

Looking at THIS
Already have a barely used IIIA Concealable vest, would like to get this to just throw on when a call comes in vs. wearing it all night. And it does have pockets for plates.

At the department I retired from, we were issued military flack jackets that they got for free after Gulf War 1.  It MIGHT stop a .22 LR but even that is questionable. I know this because after we got issued them, a couple of us were at the warehouse and asked one of those guys for a couple of the ones they had sitting around. We took them home and shot them. It did stop a .22lr but a 9mm handgun went right through both sides of it.

On New Years Eve we were on strike teams with law enforcement (I worked in a major resort city with a HUGE New Year's Eve celebration, one of the ones on TV). We wore orange Second Chance Level 4 armor that had pockets in which we carried all our medical equipment (we were on foot and were not carrying anything like ALS equipment, we just got the injured and sick to an extraction point).

Way back in the day, I worked for a private ambulance company in that same city and we could buy body armor at a group rate and have the price taken out of our pay checks. I bought one but only wore it a few times because it was so damn uncomfortable. This was concealable armor worn under my uniform shirt

I still work in EMS but I work in a place where I think the chances of being shot are minimal. Yeah, it could happen, but highly unlikely. So, I no longer have any interest. If things get that bad here, I will just quit. I am on the verge of it at some point almost every shift as it is.

IF I was still working in the big city I would definitely want body armor. And this time, I would make it real good body armor. And I would not want concealable body armor. I would want something that I could easily choose to wear when it was appropriate.

FWIW: I have been in countless VERY sketchy situations over the years. And thousands of them were LONG before all this holding short for law enforcement came about. We just went in. The only reason I am still alive is that respect and restraint was shown for EMS and Firefighters. I don't think this same atmosphere exists today.

FWIW: Paramedic since 1985. Retired from an ISO Class 1 department in a city of a couple million people.

Just saw this today on Facebook