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Posted: 7/25/2015 1:21:18 PM EDT
Had a call yesterday where I probably should have shot the person but didn't.  I aim in and tell her to get on the ground, she doesn't.  I tell her to not touch the gun that was in her bra strap.  What does she do?  She reaches for it, pulls it out, and with a limp wrist and fingertips, sets it on the ground.  One nut hair more worth of trigger pressure and she would have taken a round.  I'm glad I didn't shoot an innocent person that was just being a dumbass but it's hard to get over the fact that I probably should have shot.  I watched her reach towards the handle of the gun and did nothing.  I had a gut feeling that she wasn't going to suicide by cop but why take the chance of her drawing on me.  My partner said I would have been justified.  I just thank God everything turned out OK.  
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 2:10:28 PM EDT
[#1]
All because you could of shot someone, does not mean you should. You made the right choice. The mere presence of a weapon does not and should not ever immediately be deadly force. It is truly a totality of the circumstances.

In this case, you recognized the person was not a threat. So be it.

I have been in numerous cases, like yours. Situations where I would have been justified but did not use deadly force. On the other hand, I have been in others where I had used deadly force. By recognizing the point at which to use it, you are fine.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 2:11:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Don't second guess yourself. It won't change anything. Move on and know where you stand for next time.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 5:42:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 10:14:36 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Congrats on your self control and your awareness of how quickly the situation could go south and being ready to address it.

Any call you can walk away from, Brother.
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This.

Stay safe
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 11:29:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All because you could of shot someone, does not mean you should. You made the right choice. The mere presence of a weapon does not and should not ever immediately be deadly force. It is truly a totality of the circumstances.

In this case, you recognized the person was not a threat. So be it.

I have been in numerous cases, like yours. Situations where I would have been justified but did not use deadly force. On the other hand, I have been in others where I had used deadly force. By recognizing the point at which to use it, you are fine.
View Quote

This, ive been in several situations almost exactly like you described. They dont bother me a bit. The ones that do bother me are the ones that i really should have shot. One my partner was behind the suspect that was drawing on him, i holstered and went hands on like a dumbass, im lucky i didnt get shot. There are a few more that really bug me, but the way i have to think of it, did i NEED to shoot them? No, obviously not because they went to jail and no officers got hurt. I woulda been completely justified, but that doesnt always make it the right call. Dont beat yourself up, you made the right call and it worked out. Sometimes all you can do is trust your gut and roll with it. I still to this day wonder what would have happened if i pulled the trigger on the 14 year old that pulled the gun oit of his pocket to to drop on the ground... all i can say is he... and I, are really lucky a family was sitting on the steps behind him and we didnt have to find out.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 12:58:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I guess my mental hangup isn't necessarily about the situation I encountered.  It really made me think, will I do the right thing when I'm presented with a credible threat?  Why did I hesitate?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:29:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I guess my mental hangup isn't necessarily about the situation I encountered.  It really made me think, will I do the right thing when I'm presented with a credible threat?  Why did I hesitate?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Hesitation and quickly identifying a "dont shoot" situation arent the same thing brother. In 7 years i have had 4 people i can think of off the top of my head that would have been a clean shoot. That doesnt mean that shooting them was NECESSARY. You did the right thing, dont think it into something its not.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 8:48:33 AM EDT
[#8]
I had a similar situation last summer. You made the right decision.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:26:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Hesitation and quickly identifying a "dont shoot" situation arent the same thing brother. In 7 years i have had 4 people i can think of off the top of my head that would have been a clean shoot. That doesnt mean that shooting them was NECESSARY. You did the right thing, dont think it into something its not.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess my mental hangup isn't necessarily about the situation I encountered.  It really made me think, will I do the right thing when I'm presented with a credible threat?  Why did I hesitate?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Hesitation and quickly identifying a "dont shoot" situation arent the same thing brother. In 7 years i have had 4 people i can think of off the top of my head that would have been a clean shoot. That doesnt mean that shooting them was NECESSARY. You did the right thing, dont think it into something its not.


I was kinda thinking the same.  It's not that you hesitated, as much as it is that you were reading everything else that was going on and choose not to shoot.......yet.  I'll put money on it that if the limp wrist with the gun in hand had tightened up and came up to you as a target, you would've thrown some hot rocks at it.

Hesitating would've been her drawing out at you, shooting a round at you and you still not pulling the trigger.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:41:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:47:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Not LEO. Stepdad is. He's actually gotten in trouble for NOT shooting people that needed it. He'd rather beat your ass, and he's good at it.
Link Posted: 7/28/2015 9:56:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Yep, house full of squatters, guy emerges "hands up don't shoot" style with a shiny metal object in his hand and won't put it down while advancing despite numerous orders to do so. He only responded when I said, "do you want me to shoot you in the fucking face?" It's like he understood those words and he snapped out of it and got on the ground.

The blade ended up being surgical locking forceps. Imagine what would have happened had I fired, although I probably should have.

The GD perfect hind sight heros would have creamed themselves.
Link Posted: 8/23/2015 9:30:51 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm thankful for police officers like the OP. I had an incident a few days after hurricane Ike down here in Texas. I had just gotten home after doing 4 days straight at a command center for TDCJ. It was dark, about 2am, and I walked around my house with a flashlight checking windows to ensure none were broken. I then went inside, and luckily the electricity was on so I turned the lights on. I changed into jeans. I had my .45 nearby due to it being late, and there had been reports of looters in nearby cities. I heard a noise outside, sounded like footsteps. So, I grabbed my .45 and a flash light. I opened the backdoor, on the pretext of confronting whoever might be prowling around. I got lit up with flash lights and a commanding voice stating "DROP the GUN! DROP THE GUN! POLICE! POLICE!" So, I dropped that baby like a hot potatoe! I then put my hands up, and the officers approached. They were county deputy sheriffs. They ID'd me, and saw that I owned the house. They explained that my neighbor had reported a prowler, which likely was me walking around my house with the flash light when I had first gotten home.

I was damn thankful they had the good judgement to not shoot first. The deputies were cool, and they advised that if I needed anything just give them a call again. They could laugh about it afterwards, as could I. All of us there had our hearts skip a beat for a few minutes till things got sorted out.
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 1:58:55 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm no cop but I've had more than one time in Iraq where I knew I didnt need to shoot someone but could have. It's what makes you worthy of the public trust in my opinion. Doing what you know was right. Don't worry man, you did the right thing and will do the right thing again shoot or no shoot. Just relax.
Link Posted: 8/28/2015 10:51:19 AM EDT
[#15]
We've all had incidents like this in our careers.  You made the correct decision not to fire but, it COULD have ended up bad for you.  Now, we all know you would have been justified but, had you pulled the trigger, you'd have felt horrible later "if" you ever found out FOR SURE that her intent was not to harm you.  If you'd shot her, you would never found out her true intent.  This is a judgement call and. luckily for BOTH of you, it turned out that you made the right decision.  Don't beat yourself up about it...
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 11:55:40 AM EDT
[#16]
I've never shot anyone (as a cop)

I could've "legally" let rounds go at least a dozen times. In these instances, I felt I would've hit innocents or other cops (think Broadway in NYC at 1600 hrs) or other cops took the shot, or...intervened with overwhelming blunt trauma while I was staring over the sights.

I thank GOD every day (sometimes several times a day) that I didn't HAVE to kill these people.

I sleep well at night, because I'm a LUCKY asshole...
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:20:59 PM EDT
[#17]
OP you were cool headed.
THAT, is always an asset.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 12:43:44 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
OP you were cool headed.
THAT, is always an asset.
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+2
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 3:32:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP you were cool headed.
THAT, is always an asset.
View Quote


To a point. As I understand it, deputy Dinkheller was given some shit for being "too aggressive" and as a result was hesitant to do what needed to be done, and it cost him his life.
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 1:30:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
All because you could of shot someone, does not mean you should. You made the right choice. The mere presence of a weapon does not and should not ever immediately be deadly force. It is truly a totality of the circumstances.

In this case, you recognized the person was not a threat. So be it.

I have been in numerous cases, like yours. Situations where I would have been justified but did not use deadly force. On the other hand, I have been in others where I had used deadly force. By recognizing the point at which to use it, you are fine.
View Quote


This and yes I have been in a similar situation and did not shoot. Caught a HUGE amount of flak from several senior officers but to this day, I am extremely happy I did not shoot. I think most officers would have but I am and always will be happy with the way I reacted.
If things would have gone slightly differently, I would have fired.
Link Posted: 9/16/2015 11:56:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Don't second guess.  The general public has no idea what we do daily. You were there, your decision.
Link Posted: 9/27/2015 1:51:38 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm a dumb redneck. But I reckon that if you HAD shot her you'd probably be sitting around wondering if you really had to or if you took her life unnecessarily. You made it home safe and you aren't about to stand trial for murder. Be glad that's all that happened.
Link Posted: 9/28/2015 8:02:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Had a call yesterday where I probably should have shot the person but didn't.  I aim in and tell her to get on the ground, she doesn't.  I tell her to not touch the gun that was in her bra strap.  What does she do?  She reaches for it, pulls it out, and with a limp wrist and fingertips, sets it on the ground.  One nut hair more worth of trigger pressure and she would have taken a round.  I'm glad I didn't shoot an innocent person that was just being a dumbass but it's hard to get over the fact that I probably should have shot.  I watched her reach towards the handle of the gun and did nothing.  I had a gut feeling that she wasn't going to suicide by cop but why take the chance of her drawing on me.  My partner said I would have been justified.  I just thank God everything turned out OK.  
View Quote

Sometimes, in your gut, you "just know."  You knew.
Link Posted: 9/28/2015 8:46:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Had a call yesterday where I probably should have shot the person but didn't.  I aim in and tell her to get on the ground, she doesn't.  I tell her to not touch the gun that was in her bra strap.  What does she do?  She reaches for it, pulls it out, and with a limp wrist and fingertips, sets it on the ground.  One nut hair more worth of trigger pressure and she would have taken a round.  I'm glad I didn't shoot an innocent person that was just being a dumbass but it's hard to get over the fact that I probably should have shot.  I watched her reach towards the handle of the gun and did nothing.  I had a gut feeling that she wasn't going to suicide by cop but why take the chance of her drawing on me.  My partner said I would have been justified.  I just thank God everything turned out OK.  
View Quote


I've never understood those dumb-shit people who just refuse to do what they're told to do in situations like this. You told her clear as day not to touch the gun, and what does she do? She takes out the gun. She should be arrested for impersonating a human being.
Link Posted: 9/28/2015 10:28:55 PM EDT
[#25]
If you would of pulled the trigger, you would be second guessing that decision.

If I can live my life with never having to pull the trigger on someone, I will be happy.
Link Posted: 10/5/2015 11:09:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Had a call yesterday where I probably should have shot the person but didn't.  I aim in and tell her to get on the ground, she doesn't.  I tell her to not touch the gun that was in her bra strap.  What does she do?  She reaches for it, pulls it out, and with a limp wrist and fingertips, sets it on the ground.  One nut hair more worth of trigger pressure and she would have taken a round.  I'm glad I didn't shoot an innocent person that was just being a dumbass but it's hard to get over the fact that I probably should have shot.  I watched her reach towards the handle of the gun and did nothing.  I had a gut feeling that she wasn't going to suicide by cop but why take the chance of her drawing on me.  My partner said I would have been justified.  I just thank God everything turned out OK.  
View Quote

According to your training, you should have shot her.  But, you didn't.  She is alive.  You are alive.  You trusted your instincts.  You read more into the situation than any training scenario can provide.  Don't doubt yourself, but also, don't let this be a training scar, in thinking all gun grabs will go that way.  Stay safe brother.
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