First off I wanna say I've never had any problems with the law and I don't plan to. I went out target shooting last weekend to sight in my gf's .308 bolt action at the same spot I've been going the passed 8 years...
I've talked to sheriffs and state troopers over the years and they have all been professional and even allowed me to stay and shoot just giving them time to drive off. Well this passed weekend was very different
we had a constable pull up and I had my rifle slinged on my shoulder and I can understand how this would make him uncomfortable so he wanted me to put the weapon down and I slowly grabbed the top of the sling with the tips
of my fingers and set it down. He then proceeds pretty angry with his hand on the gun the whole time asking if I have permits for the weapons (rifles in TX need no permit) I said no but if it helps I have my CHL. He says that's no good and
asks what we're doing on here ect. I say were just target shooting ( I have my targets setup out there)  So he threatens many charges and says he will confiscate my weapons if I don't leave. I said fine we'll pack up I don't want any trouble
and he is rushing us to pack up with his hand still on the pistol making it hard to grab a rifle to put it back in the case. He notices the shotgun shells and other casings on the floor and says he can get me for littering ( wasn't shooting a shotgun and I reload and pickup my brass) , if anyone gets killed out there he can blame it on me
and tells me he could say I shot the concrete pipe thats out there and get me for destruction of property and seize my truck as well.  

First off there are no signs anywhere that it's trespassing to be out there and I've been going out there for over 8 years and other LEO's have talked to us and even let us continue shooting. Second I wasn't even able to talk to this officer because he was being so aggressive, treating, and had his hand on his pistol the whole time and wouldn't give me a chance to speak...

I'm not sure what I should do at this point I would like to make a complaint but not sure how or who to contact. I would like to go back and continue shooting but not sure what this guy will try to pin on me. I have no problem with officers of the law I know you guys have a tough job but some officers are very unprofessional and come off as rude and threatening anyway that's my story.

Who owns the land you were shooting on and was it any way shooting on that property could be considered reckless?  Best to leave it alone but have all your ducks in a row for next time.

Snowman357

I don't know about Texas, but Alabama has done away with most Constables and partly because they were a bunch of mouth breathers who had no business having arrest authority.

well It's levee land there are some fields around but I always liked the big dirt walls and we would shoot in the middle.

Not your land.

Could someone please clarify the constable concept to those not in the east or south where they seem to operate?

What is levee land?  Is their a property owner state land govt land?  Just because you shot there 8 years doesn't mean its legal, How do you come by this shooting spot?

Snowman357

I used to ride dirt bikes out there and hike along the levee wall for miles and I just found a spot that was pretty remote and had safe distances for shooting no signs anywhere.

"past"

So who owns the land you can't just go around picking a place to shoot or dirt bike with out permission.  Who owns the land around the levee where you were at?

I always thought the levee's were public land and that's why there were never fenced or gated.

It will boil down to who owns it, if it's public then he's a tool and he's wrong.
If it's private, then you get to find a new place to shoot.  Was he out there responding to a call form the landowners about the shooting littering?   Has the shooting spot been overrun with scraped out cars, old appliances, refrigerators, computers, a toilet, beer cans, glass bottles, bonfires, juveniles, etc?  Places like that get more attention and more enforcement action.      

As to the attitude and threats to charge for every misplaced dirt clod... Well that's on him to prove.  

FYI: I rest my hand/forearm on my gun because it's comfortable, not because I'm Johnny Quickdraw.  Having your hands in your pockets is a major No-No, and standing face to face with someone with your arms hanging at your sides gets tiring and you look like an uncivilized gorilla.  So I stand up straight and rest my hands/forearms on my duty belt.

I honestly don't know if it's public or private but it used to be a good place to shoot. Although some idiots must have abused it because someone did shoot the pipe and leave a lot of trash and I guess they are now blaming everyone out there. As they say one bad apple spoils the bunch...

TO EVERYONE READING THIS. .. CONSTABLES ARE NOT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. THEY RECEIVE 40 HOURS A YEAR IN TRAINING, DRIVE CARS PAID FOR BY THEMSELVES, AND HAVE NO BASIC KNOWLEDGE OF LAW, OR CRIMINAL PROCEDURE.
They serve civil papers and carry a gun.

Please spread the word.

I'm not a police officer (or constable), but I see him resting his hand on his gun as a sign that he is around people with guns who (in his eyes) are breaking the law and he doesn't want to get caught off guard if you try and draw down on him. Same reason that you see police walk up to cars at traffic stops with their hand on their gun, they just don't know what's going to happen.

As to the other part of the issue, I won't weigh in on that.

In every state or just your specific state...The devil is in the details.

I'll put it this way, they are governed by the "National Constable Association"... In TN, they aren't LEOs

They also aren't covered under LEOSA

This describes the role of the Constable in KY

http://www.bgdailynews.com/news/constables-have-various-roles-in-kentucky/article_3c41baa8-3e9a-51b0-9184-18d7a9c3d25b.html

Do these tidbits somewhat disturb you.

An unpaid person is most likely not going to put much money into training, yet has arrest powers. Isn't that a little hnnnnnnggggg?

When I lived in Tennessee I had a PART TIME job as a deputy (I was active duty military at the time) and met several Constables, only one was worth a crap, the others were old, tired and had no/little knowledge of the law, but they were at least friendly.

Like all jobs, there are dicks out there... looks like you ran in to one... not all cops or constables are dicks.

Now days... I only shoot on land I have specific permission to be on or at an established range.

Now....I'm not a big fan of the idea of constables playing cops, but in Texas they are considered peace officers.

Art. 2.12. WHO ARE PEACE OFFICERS. The following are peace officers:

(1) sheriffs, their deputies, and those reserve deputies who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(2) constables, deputy constables, and those reserve deputy constables who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(3) marshals or police officers of an incorporated city, town, or village, and those reserve municipal police officers who hold a permanent peace officer license issued under Chapter 1701, Occupations Code;

(4) rangers and officers commissioned by the Public Safety Commission and the Director of the Department of Public Safety;

(5) investigators of the district attorneys', criminal district attorneys', and county attorneys' offices;

(6) law enforcement agents of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission;

(7) each member of an arson investigating unit commissioned by a city, a county, or the state;

(8) officers commissioned under Section 37.081, Education Code, or Subchapter E, Chapter 51, Education Code;

(9) officers commissioned by the General Services Commission;

(10) law enforcement officers commissioned by the Parks and Wildlife Commission;

(11) airport police officers commissioned by a city with a population of more than 1.18 million located primarily in a county with a population of 2 million or more that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(12) airport security personnel commissioned as peace officers by the governing body of any political subdivision of this state, other than a city described by Subdivision (11), that operates an airport that serves commercial air carriers;

(13) municipal park and recreational patrolmen and security officers;

(14) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers by the comptroller;

(15) officers commissioned by a water control and improvement district under Section 49.216, Water Code;

(16) officers commissioned by a board of trustees under Chapter 54, Transportation Code;

(17) investigators commissioned by the Texas Medical Board;

(18) officers commissioned by:

(A) the board of managers of the Dallas County Hospital District, the Tarrant County Hospital District, the Bexar County Hospital District, or the El Paso County Hospital District under Section 281.057, Health and Safety Code;

(B) the board of directors of the Ector County Hospital District under Section 1024.117, Special District Local Laws Code; and

(C) the board of directors of the Midland County Hospital District of Midland County, Texas, under Section 1061.121, Special District Local Laws Code;

(19) county park rangers commissioned under Subchapter E, Chapter 351, Local Government Code;

(20) investigators employed by the Texas Racing Commission;

(21) officers commissioned under Chapter 554, Occupations Code;

(22) officers commissioned by the governing body of a metropolitan rapid transit authority under Section 451.108, Transportation Code, or by a regional transportation authority under Section 452.110, Transportation Code;

(23) investigators commissioned by the attorney general under Section 402.009, Government Code;

(24) security officers and investigators commissioned as peace officers under Chapter 466, Government Code;

(25) an officer employed by the Department of State Health Services under Section 431.2471, Health and Safety Code;

(26) officers appointed by an appellate court under Subchapter F, Chapter 53, Government Code;

(27) officers commissioned by the state fire marshal under Chapter 417, Government Code;

(28) an investigator commissioned by the commissioner of insurance under Section 701.104, Insurance Code;

(29) apprehension specialists and inspectors general commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Sections 242.102 and 243.052, Human Resources Code;

(30) officers appointed by the inspector general of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice under Section 493.019, Government Code;

(31) investigators commissioned by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement under Section 1701.160, Occupations Code;

(32) commission investigators commissioned by the Texas Private Security Board under Section 1702.061(f), Occupations Code;

(33) the fire marshal and any officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by an emergency services district under Chapter 775, Health and Safety Code;

(34) officers commissioned by the State Board of Dental Examiners under Section 254.013, Occupations Code, subject to the limitations imposed by that section;

(35) investigators commissioned by the Texas Juvenile Justice Department as officers under Section 221.011, Human Resources Code; and

(36) the fire marshal and any related officers, inspectors, or investigators commissioned by a county under Subchapter B, Chapter 352, Local Government Code.

It very much disturbs me.  A few years back my sisters had a run-in with a local constable and he acted in much the same manner until confronted by an actual adult.  I think it was DOCJT that did a study years back looking into the validity and purpose of constables in KY.  I can't remember the details, but I personally don't see much use for them any more.  There have been several in recent years that found themselves in trouble, to include criminal charges IIRC, for acting outside the boundaries of their authority.

Sorry it went this way for you OP.  It sounds like you handled it well and didn't allow yourself to act in the same manner as the constable.

Where the hell are you from?  You are wrong.

I am a from Tennessee, and constables have a long history of attempting to act as police officers, then calling a policeman for help. The Sheriff loans out radios to these constables, and I have seen MANY times the Sheriff take these radios away. They are NOT P.O.S.T certified.

Before calling me wrong please know what youre talking about...

Google "role of Tennessee Constables and see the 3rd link down. It's a PDF concerning this

ETA... made it easier for you as not to confuse you further.

Here it is


And I'll accept my apology now

I see the special snowflake patrol has arrived.  I will note that no one cares about TN or KY.

Bottom line. You are shooting on land that is not yours.  It's not "public".  There is very little of that in Texas.  You are on the property of whoever maintains the levee. May be an entity such as the lower Colorado RIver Authority or some farmer's co-op. Could be a private citizen.

You were trespassing.  No signs or fencing is required.

Your are sorry you talked about TN when this incident occurred in TX.

BTW, the ones where I live are POST certified and have arrest powers. That doesn't matter either, since it isn't TX

That's what I remember, besides, what was cited is the Attorney General's Opinion as to what a LEO is REFERENCE ONLY to TCA 37-17-1350. So when it comes to defining a LEO for the purpose of the aforementioned law, no, they perhaps are not considered LEO's for qualifying purposes... big difference there.

Part of that law...

d) For purposes of this section, “law enforcement officer” means a person who is a full-time employee of the state in a position authorized by the laws of this state to carry a firearm and to make arrests for violations of some or all of the laws of this state, or a full-time police officer who has been certified by the peace officer standards and training commission, or a vested correctional officer employed by the department of correction.

This

As you stated, someone has been out there damaging some pipe, trashing the area, etc..  maybe this Constable has been hearing the complainants on it, and having
to do the reports.

As far as him having his hand on his gun, yes - I would think any LEO making contact with someone who has a gun on them to be ready to react if necessary... He
does not know you, your history, or your intent.  However, he does know you are armed...

To file a complaint on him- I'm not from TX, but I would say find out who (County, Village, etc..) he answers to and call them up.  Don't be surprised if it doesn't go the way
you plan though.. you were probably trespassing on anothers land, shooting where they have apparently had issues with someone damaging/vandalizing the property by
shooting...

This might be true for your area, however they are considered rural law enforcement in Arkansas and have arrest authority.  They are elected by the voters in their area.  Most I've met are also full time LEO's that do it on the side.

You were armed and most likely committing a criminal offense. He was actually quite polite. I'd let it go. You could end up getting charged with trespassing if you push this.

This.

The TN definition will make for a bad day for you in Texas.

Pretty much this would have avoided this whole mess.

 

Sorry to hear that OP, but if your going to file a complaint it helps tremendously to be right.

You were maybe or maybe not on land that permits shooting.  Do some internet research and find some.  It's out there.  Next time you can have the documentation on you if it happens again.

I was shooting on my own land a few years back and got SWATTED.  A passer by called it in as an active shooter situation.

I was right, but still came really close to dying that day.  Shrugs...

Constables are a dying breed in here in Michigan. They are elected at the city or township level.



That being said, if they have gone through an MI police academy they have full LEO powers.

I had two "incidents" while shooting on land "everyone uses" over the years... the last time, back in 2001, was it for me. Both incidents with LE were ok, but that's ONLY because the responding officers were shooters themselves and were familiar with the "community shooting place".

When it comes to getting an ARMED TRESPASS charge, I don't want to be the example made for others to see...

sticking to the original topic,  do your due diligence before filing complaint
if you were trespassing and shooting illegally, yeah the constable probably could have been more polite but you caught yet another break
the other times that cops showed up and "allowed" you to keep shooting, did anyone of them advise you that you "shouldn't be there" but let you finish shooting off your ammo?

You're stupid. I'm an LEO in Texas. Constables are peace officers here and they have to get more (extra) training on civil process. They attend the same police academy as everyone else. Same requirements for TCOLE and everything. Many a times Constables know the area and people better than deputies and police officers because they are engaging the public just as much as we do. So please refrain from making ignorant statements like that.

OP Cameron or Hidalgo County?? What precinct if you know

Some people are gruff, impolite, or just jerks, no matter what their occupation, and there's little recourse for rudeness.  But the part that really stings is that sometimes they are right and they have arresting powers, so it's always best to 1) know the law and 2) tread lightly.  In that vein, I would highly recommend against going back because the law is not on your side for reasons John-in-austin covered...


There are states where "public" land is relatively abundant, and you can simply roll up, unpack, and start blasting away.  Texas is not one of those states, so you should always either own the land on which you're shooting, have explicit permission from the land owner, or shoot at an established range.  In rural areas, you may get away with it for literally years, but the day someone in law enforcement tells you to stop and not return, rude or not, it's best to heed his or her command.

I had a guy acting like a but hole the other day. He complained and said I was " mean to him and threatening" . Two days later he had his house ran through by a car and guess who gets the call. He couldn't find himself more apologetic when he was on the victim side of things. He called our captain and apologized for being an ass after I was done taking care of his problem. I'm always as nice as people allow me to be and will treat everyone with the same respect they give me. Act like an ass I'll treat you like an ass. My goal is to have everyone say thank you when I'm done with them.

I'm not saying how I am applies to every officer, and we all have our bad days. Id take his advise and shoot a couple miles up the road and chock this up to either him having a bad day or him not having very good people skills.


Also..... Hand on gun thing...... I always have my hand on my gun.....especially if someone else has a gun. I don't know you or your intentions. Just saying.

TO EVERYONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE LAW... CONSTABLES ARE CERTAINLY LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS.  THEY RECEIVE 40 ADDITIONAL HOURS OF TRAINING IN ADDITION TO THE REQUIRED TRAINING ALL PEACE OFFICERS RECEIVE.  THEY MUST PASS THE SAME STATE CERTIFICATION TEST ALL PEACE OFFICERS IN TEXAS MUST TAKE.


They were created to bailiff the JP courts and serve papers, but they have full LE authority.  

Please spread the word

In NYS Constables are Peace Officers, are armed and have arrest authority.

The levees in the Rio Grande Valley are property of the IBWC.  Your not supposed to drive on the levee without their permission but unless a IBWC worker sees someone doing something dumb on it (4x4s and ATVs doing donuts, digging, etc), they usually don't care.   They don't have very many signs advising the public of this but I would be willing to bet that the constable was called out there or knows the landowner.  

In the area you are talking about, is it overgrown brush or irrigated fields?  Do you have anyway of finding out who the landowner is to get permission?

Well I have had a guy drive out there saying he owned the place and he didn't mind us shooting there as long as we don't break glass in the field or shoot up the cement pipes. Turns out some idiot did shoot up the pipes and I guess all they can do is blame everyone shooting so I really doubt they will grant permission now. But your correct that is the area.

I don't think the OP was as upset about the land issue as he was with the way whoever the LEO was handled himself.

In the (distant) past I learned as a general rule the cop that throws his weight around and plays the tough guy where it is unwarranted generally isn't much of a cop at all. The mall police are often examples of this.

Incidentally I was a friend of mine about 25 years ago in Seattle and he was fooling around in a crowd of people doing no harm whatsoever and a cop started in on him with an attitude. It was a stupid thing to do and even stupider in front of a bunch of people. My guess later is he was some kind of politically appointed rookie.

Right at the perfect crescendo of the officer's spiel my friend started and at the same time said "Boo". The officer took a couple steps back and the college kids started in on him and he had to either call a backup, accept the humiliation or leave. He chose wisely and left. I'm sure he lost a lot of respect that day.

Same friend some time later. Same neighborhood in Seattle. Beautiful spring day.

We were walking down the street headed to a certain tavern and he's walk along the sidewalk on his feet but cross the streets walking on his hands. (Tells you what kind of shape he was in!)

Anyway as we stepped onto the sidewalk an officer who could have simply smiled and said, "hey, guys knock it off."  started giving him a bunch of overblown crap about it and started carrying on.

I interrupted by looking at the cop and saying "Jesus loves you." and watched him go agape and turn beet red.

Before he could react we simply walked off

(And of course, at the next street crossing he walked across the street on his hands. You knew he would, he HAD to after that.)

Police work is just like anything else. Mostly good guys with a few jerks thrown in.

My guess is the OP just drew a jerk that day.

I got $20 that says you have fewer problems than a lot of other officers do.

Same in Pennsylvania. You're in trouble if someone files a small claims on you or you have a warrant from the local District Judge.

You probably shouldn't pass on bad information.  Not everyone here lives in TN (or KY) and the OP is from TX.  So if anyone needs to apologize it's you.  

And I'll wait for your apology now.

Don't ever come to TX.