I'm going to try to make this as short as possible while still giving a background into my current predicament.

I started my LEO career with a small county department. During field training, I was assigned to a couple of field training officers who based their decision on how good of an officer I was based on their personal feelings rather than my actual performance as an LEO. They withheld feed back from me or would not give it to me until three or four days later so that I would have no chance to correct any issues that I had, if I even had any (keep in mind our training phases were only 12 working days at the most). As a result, one of the training officers decided to put me in for remediation due to the alleged issues that no other officers on shift saw, including the sergeant. I went through remediation for the phase and my field training officer flat out said that there was no reason for me to be going through remediation. Once the field training coordinator (also an active FTO and very close friends with the first FTO who had "issues" with me) saw that I was passing with flying colors, they decided to switch around my schedule from where I would finish with an FTO sergeant, to where I would be assigned to the coordinator. So, I go to this FTO and it's the same thing as the first that had "issues" with me (withholding of feedback, not following procedure by going to every call, still claiming the same issues). Guess what, they decide to fail me based on the same "issues". When this happened, two officers and a sergeant came forward to the chief and told him that it was not right for me to be failed. As a result, the chief asked me to take a communications position until things with the program could be "straightened out" at which time I would be able to go back through training. I took the communications position and am nearing completion of the training. From what I understand is that there were rumors going around the department that I was really close with the chief due to the fact that I was recruited by the department since I was in college (I did an internship at the same department while I was finishing up getting my Bachelor's degree in criminal justice.

I have had two interviews with other departments. Both decided not to proceed with the application process afterwards. I have a feeling it is because of being failed from the program, even though it was due to no real fault of my own. I have also submitted applications to other departments and have been turned down before even being interviewed.

So here I am, wanting to get back to doing what I love which is being a law enforcement officer and not sure what else I can do to make myself a more desirable candidate.

Any suggestions?

Instead of always pointing at the FTOs that may have been the problem, you may also want to look at yourself.

From a person you want to be hired by consider this perspective:

An applicant failed FTO. He claims it was all the FTO's fault. He said he never did anything wrong.


Would you rather have a person that recognizes the mistakes they made or would you rather have a person that blames the failure completely on someone else? Without your issues documented in writing showing it was a FTO problem, it will sound like you are trying to displace blame.

Opinion- man up and say you made mistakes. You have done XX to improve your communication skills and prepare for the academy. You have contacted XX FTOs and learned how to correct your issues. You MUST sell yourself. Otherwise, they may see it as a case where this applicant already had their chance and couldn't cut it.

I get exactly what you are saying. I do accept responsibility for my part in it and I know I wasn't perfect. Did I make mistakes, absolutely I was a rookie. Are they mistakes that couldn't have been fixed if they were addressed by the FTO, not at all.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

What specifically where the "mistakes" that they bounced you on?

Failing to check a box on a ticket is one thing, allowing a gun on a bad guy into lock up is another.


Its my opinion as a 20 year and counting vet LEO, 17year FTO and the Senior FTO at my dept that due to the litigious nature of our world and the generational differences between recruits of 20 years ago and those now,that sub standard recruits get strung along and are given way to many chances to continue. Not many of those 50 chance, three retread officers that DO make it out of solo probation are worth a shit. Actually I can not think of any at my Dept that have actually made it a year on their own.

Since my nearly 2 decades of involvement in out FTO program (we FTO 5-10 people a year) I can honestly say that ONE person had an actual legitimate personality conflict with their FTO that was totally and immediately solved with a change of FTO's.

J-

They claimed officer safety issues but when I asked what exactly I was doing wrong I would never get an straightforward answer just "you need to be more aware of officer safety". The FTO I went to for remedial was on the same shift as the first FTO who had issues with me and said the only thing he ever saw was me not using my flashlight on a traffic stop at dusk while I was with the first FTO, my FTO at the time wasn't even the one to correct me on it but once my remedial FTO did I never had the same issue.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

You need to keep applying to other departments, perhaps consider moving.

Have you asked to see your FTO file to see what you can fix?

Also, have you considered another career path?

In my experience as an FTO (not long) it's very difficult to fail someone in FTO. The investment is just so great that it rarely happens.

Have you been to academy?

I have been through the academy already. I'm not sure what other career path I would take as I have dedicated a lot to being a LEO.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Do you think that they are going to let you go back through FTO or a modified FTO soon?

I don't think there is anything specific you can do if they aren't going to let that happen other than TIME and keep applying to other departments.

Using a flashlight at dusk? WTF is that about? I'll use a flashlight at high noon if I want to.

I was told by the chief that I could go back through FTO but it could be up to a year before I can.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

If you think your getting screwed call a lawyer. They might be pulling a stunt on you. Are you making the same pay picking up phones? Are you still a certified LEO? As in still have a tin star and a gun?

Make about $4.50 less per hour now. Supposedly I am still classified by the department as "reserve" but don't have any of my issued LEO gear anymore.

I guess I should also mention that I was told I was "too nice to people" by the second FTO who had issues with me which really kind of irritated me as I didn't get into this career to screw people over, I did it to (yes I know it sounds cliche) actually try to help the community and educate rather than simply arrest people or issue them citations when there's alternatives to it especially for minor offenses.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I'd look for another department.

So they wouldn't go over your DOR until 4 days later?

And how many NRT's did they give you?

Something doesn't sound right.

Already in the process of trying to get on somewhere else. Have a bunch of applications out.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Double tap


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

That's correct. I wouldn't get any feedback until getting my DORs and unfortunately for me I trusted them and signed them for the day it was supposed to be (like I had been told to) rather than the date I actually received the DOR. I'm not sure on the NRTs off the top of my head but will check my copies of my DORs, I don't recall actually seeing any on the DOR just "needs improvement".

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Being labelled as "Too Nice" can mean a lot of things in regards to officer safety issues:
It could mean that you fail to take control of people on a scene and you let them wander around.
It could mean you don't control hand movements of vehicle occupants and allow then to rummage around unfettered.
It could mean you don't pat down/detain/or cuff people when necessary.
It could mean you try to "read" people and don't have the necessary time or experience on the street to make said judgement.

It may not mean that you are in fact "too nice" and that you need to start screwing people over.

I'm not excusing your FTO's behavior, it sounds like communication is not their strong sit, but I also feel there is more to the story than just being called "Too nice."  

Just checked and not the first NRT on any of my DORs.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

The instance that I was called too nice was for not arresting a young female who had two young toddlers in the back seat for driving without a license.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I would quit looking at the little things and think big picture.

Either you have a conversation with the Chief and he tells you that you will be back on the road by XXX date or you go get a different job.

I'm not putting my life on hold for the slim chance that you seem to be looking at.

I am actively trying to get on with other departments. I also took the communications position as a way to get additional experience in a field that works hand in hand with LE. This means I will also be a state certified public safety telecommunicator in addition to the LE certification (talked with HR today and I still have active certification as LEO).

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Unfortunately a lot of the stuff in FTO, Officer Safety included can be very subjective. One FTO may harp one thing and another may not.

"If" all you were getting dinged on what NOT using your flash light on stops at dusk/after dark, well that is a very easy thing to address and correct at the time of occurance. If there were no notations of Corrective Action Needed (CAN) and/or then Not Responding to Training (NRT) it is kind of hard to say someone is failing and unable to proceed.

We, based on the how busy we are, will very often not get a completed DOR to the probationary officer until the next working day. However NOTHING is signed etc until everyone (FTO, Proabtionary, Supervisor etc) have reviewed it and it is GTG. Again this is NOT the same as withholding info or feed back. That should be done immediately or as soon as safe to do.

J-

Do whatever you can ethically do to make it work with current agency.  You'll be blackballed by new agencies until you have a verifiable history. You will need to eat a few crap sandwiches and swallow some pride with it but once you get some sworn time with a good performance evaluation, opportunities at other agencies will open up.

Thanks for the replies and help so far everybody. I am planning on meeting with my chief the first chance I get to see if I can work as a reserve officer on my days off as long as I am with an FTO. I think that may help him realize how serious I am about wanting to get back to the road as soon as possible. Just don't want to get rusty and acclimated to communications as it's not where I intend to be long term.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I don't know you and haven't worked with you.  However, reading between the lines I think a good portion of the problem is you.  I get the impression (hard to tell from reading someone's posts on the internet but still noticing things that ring warning bells with me) that you might be the type of person to make excuses for everything and possibly feel the need to "correct" your FTO at times.  I might be wrong.  

There are bad FTOs out there.  However, most of the bad FTOs I've seen have been the type who just pass someone just to pass them and to avoid "being the bad guy".  As an FTO, your first responsibility is to train the officer and the second responsibility is to ensure that you are not letting someone on the street on their own who should not be.  Some people refuse to conform to the ways of the agency.  I have some suspicions that you might be one of them.  

So.....how do you fix it?  Well, as you will hear around here often, eyes and ears open, mouth shut.  Ask questions as needed but don't tell your FTO you don't agree.  If you don't.....keep it to yourself.  You might be right....but as a newbie out of the academy, no one really cares about your opinion.  As you gain experience....they will care about your opinion.  

Stop looking at all your FTO's "faults".  Look at yourself.  What can YOU do to fix your issues?

Too many people refuse to change themselves....they expect everyone else to change to them.  Well.....if that's you, you aren't going to have a long LE career.  

Good luck.

You sound young and fresh out of college. Some youngsters fresh out of college just dont have the life experience, command presence and basic ability to police.

I was in your shoes early on. I was hired on and failed out of FTO when I was 22 years old. I went into corrections and REALLY learned about command presence and dealing with A-holes and gained much needed experience. After a 7 year stint in corrections, I transferred out to road patrol and went through FTO again. This time I passed with flying colors and was told by every FTO that I was a model trainee and the best trainee they had ever had. All it took was a few years of experience under my belt in corrections and a few years of growing up and maturing.

If you REALLY want this job, may I suggest a few years in corrections? They will screw your head on straight there and you will make more money and get more value added training than in communications.

If you really want to know my opinion, I would say choose a different career path. if I could go back and do it all again, I would have never gone into corrections or law enforcement. I have a young son and I absolutely steer him away from the same career path that I chose. Because I love and care for him and know the toll that the job will take on you physically and mentally.

Never tried correcting my FTOs. If they made a suggestion on how I could do something different I did it. I'll admit that yes I did have issues. However, it's nothing that couldn't be corrected if I was actually given feedback in a timely manner or corrected at the time of occurrence. I'm not making excuses for myself just stating facts.

I have no problem changing things about myself to make myself a better LEO, but the guidance on what exactly I need to work on was what I needed but didn't get.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I have actually considered doing my LEO to C/O crossover training and will actually bring it up to my chief when I talk wth him. I completely agree that getting experience with the same people I will deal with on the street will be good for me.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Do you know it all?  How is your attitude towards correction?  Are you amendable?  Do you criticize your ftos behind their back and somehow it got back to them.   Are you selfish, or lazy,  how do you deal with the public?  Too overbearing, maybe heavy handed or not strict enough?  Do you want to be the police or a social worker?  
Have you considered that law enforcement may not be for you?

I am confused.  Are you still on probation?  If so, it sounds like they failed you as an officer already but were kind enough to offer you a job with them in a non LEO capacity rather than outright terminate you.  If you are not on probation, then I am inclined to think you aren't giving the full story.  If something happened that was particularly egregious, it will be unlikely you will ever be back out on the road with your current department and very difficult to get on with another.  Outside of specific events that may not have been handled appropriately by you, it sounds like you may have some behavioral issues that are not conducive to being on patrol.  

Offhand, and I am going based on your posts, it appears you are unwilling to accept feedback and criticism for mistakes you make.  This can come across to an FTO or first line supervisor as being arrogant, rebellious, or just as a know-it-all.  While you may not see yourself in this light, that is how they see you.  You may come across as being very nice and educated to the higher brass (which is why they offered to keep you on board, and partly because they felt bad for you), but when it comes to dealing with the rigors of a patrolman, they have concluded you do not have what it takes.

You need to sit down with your Chief and have a frank discussion of where you stand as a policeman with them and what your shortcomings are. When you do this, accept what he says and DO NOT GIVE EXCUSES OR RATIONALIZE WHAT YOU MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE DONE.  What he says is how they perceive you, and that perception is something you gave them based on how you handled things.  It does sound like you are getting negative reviews from your PD as you pursue other jobs.  You need to find out why, and commit to correcting those behaviors in you.  Work with your department to hash those issues out.  Right now you are seen as a liability, so for better or worse, no department is going to want to take you on unless you can demonstrate you have made fundamental changes, and get a good review from your department.   It will take time to rehabilitate yourself, but just be honest with yourself and your department, and make the needed changes.  

When you are asked by other agencies considering employing you what happened in your previous department, be honest with them.  Rather than project failures on others, be specific as to your failings.  Don't say, "I am not perfect and have mistakes, but my FTO..."  Rather, say "I was in the field training program and was not passed because I (state the problem YOU had here).  Since then, I have worked in communications with my department and have learned to handle those situations more effectively."  You basically want what you say about you to be the same as what your department will say about you in making a recommendation.  Right now I can guarantee you that is not the case.

The positive thing you have going for you is that your Chief has not let you go.  That alone means they see some value in you.  Work with your current supervisor to develop a good reputation in your department.  You may either get another crack at it with your current department, or will have good reviews in moving to the next.  You have some tough work ahead of you, good luck with it.  Remember that honesty is always the best policy - with others and yourself.

Well said.  I think we are seeing the same suspected issues with the OP.

So basically you are telling us that it's your FTO's fault that you were not passed...not yours.  You throw out that you have issues but then blame your FTOs for not fixing your issues.  Why didn't YOU fix YOU?

What SPECIFICALLY do you consider some issues that you had?  Your explanation of your "issues" is too vague.  We can't make specific recommendations to help you out unless you are specific and honest in your assessment of yourself to us.    

I am NOT saying that your FTO was perfect....there are no perfect FTOs.  But, I strongly suspect that main issue here is not your FTO....I think the main issue is you.  If you are not ready to be a cop, then your FTO should have failed you.  

I might come across as a dick.  If that's the way you take my post, then so be it.  Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you.  But at the end of the day, YOU are the only one who can fix YOU.

One thing to remember about yourself.  You are who you are and change is difficult. " The fault lies not in our stars but in ourselves".

Not what I am saying at all. I made my mistakes and had my issues. I never expected my FTO to fix my issues, merely bring them to my attention so that I could fix them (hence mentioning not getting feedback for three to four days, I could have been making the same mistake or having the same issue and had no idea). There's things that a person who is watching the situation can pick up by watching you that you may not even realize you are doing when you are engaged.

I don't take you as being a dick and actually appreciate the advice you gave and time you took to help.

Why aren't you doing reserve work?

You have areas you need to improve. What else is better than doing it on a regular basis?

Have to get it approved by my chief. Haven't been able to meet with him so far this week as I've been in training.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

That is what you said.  I didn't make it up.  Just quoted you.

If you took it that way I apologize for my poor wording. I didn't want my FTO to fix me just let me know if I was doing something that I needed to fix/change. I thought that's what FTOs were for is to teach/train, please correct me if I'm wrong.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Okay, I am going to be painfully honest here.  There is something about you that has given your department an very unfavorable impression of you.  So much so that they do not want you on patrol because you are a liability.  That is a major issue and you either don't see it, or refuse to see it and are justifying it (whether it be a character flaw, bad personality trait, excessive pride, poor conflict resolution skills, poor judgment, whatever).  But just based on your responses, I do not think you are allowing yourself to identify and correct whatever it is.  You seem to gloss over the responses I and others have posted here, and indicate that all is progressing well and you are largely without fault.  All is not well, or you would be on the road and getting positive reinforcement for the work you do.  You paint yourself as a normal guy with no problems, and then generalize that you have mistakes but correct them, but the problem is, you are not getting any closer to your goal.  In short, you have screwed up, and are still screwing up, but don't see yourself as having screwed up.  As such, you will never be able to progress from where you are.

Second, I think that there may be an issue with how you exercise judgment in enforcement settings.  You mentioned the example of a traffic stop where you chose not to arrest a mother with 2 kids who was suspended.  You didn't provide enough details of how you handled that other than you just cited her, but I would have major issues with that as an FTO as well.  Enough that I would have intervened and handled it myself.  What was she suspended for?  If it was for DUI or something else serious, she would have been going to jail.  People get suspended because they did something pretty bad while behind the wheel and are not supposed to be driving.  Now that person is driving 2 kids around in defiance of the suspension.  That is pretty damned serious.  I have little sympathy for mom, but I am gravely concerned about the kids.  Did you let mom drive off after the cite?  If you did, that was a MAJOR mistake.  While I could maybe consider citing her instead of arrest if the suspension were due to no insurance or a series of minor infractions that put points against her license, no way is she driving off with two kids in the car with her, and no way is she driving.  Period.  If you have to have her have someone get her, or have her car towed, or arrest her - whatever the law in your jurisdiction allows - she is not driving.  Had she gotten in an accident after you let her go, you have just incurred a massive liability for your department.  

If you did not clearly see and understand that at the time of the stop, then that is likely why your FTO gave you a bad mark for handling that stop.  The more serious problem of poor judgment, is if you cannot handle a simple situation like a suspended driver effectively, how will you ever be able to handle a high stress situation where people can potentially get killed?  That is the question your Chief asked himself, and his answer was to take you off the road.  It is not because of a mean FTO, it is not because of the actions of others around you, it is because of things YOU did which painted an unfavorable picture to those responsible for hiring you.

I would do some serious and honest introspection of how you have handled things since you were hired.  You are just not understanding whatever it is that is holding you back.  If I were you, I would make it my mission to understand where I was fucking up, humble myself, and do all I can to correct myself.  And quit saying your FTO or others never told you what was wrong.  It really comes off as projecting your failures onto him.  Take ownership of your career, be honest with yourself, and work with the understanding that it will probably be a good long time before you get back to where you want to be because you have a lot to learn.

If I sound harsh, it is only because I am trying to help you see yourself through a different light.  I have been in LE for 22 years and have worked at the City, State, and Federal levels.  I have been in management the past decade and have seen many officers with problems like you describe.  You are obviously at the end of your rope if you have come here with this problem.  I don't care if you like my feedback, and responding to it in red to explain yourself isn't going to help your situation any.  You need to fix you.  Be a learner.  Be humble.  Be teachable.  And above all, BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF.  However you have been handling this has not worked, so you need to try something different.  

ETA - good luck when you talk with your chief, I hope you are able to identify the problems you need to fix.

Hmmm.  Were you "too nice" to the arrestees and suspects?  I trained rookies for 12 years and told them "nice" is fine but it doesn't fit every situation.