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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:07:52 PM EDT
[#1]
I fully support having tourniquets but I don't carry one on my belt. I do like that carrier that you linked though. I carry enough crap on me as it is though. I carry a full first aid kit in the patrol vehicle as well as several tourniquets along with CPR masks.
My most important piece of equipment that I carry is my radio. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:31:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I keep one in my pocket.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:44:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I fully support having tourniquets but I don't carry one on my belt. I do like that carrier that you linked though. I carry enough crap on me as it is though. I carry a full first aid kit in the patrol vehicle as well as several tourniquets along with CPR masks. My most important piece of equipment that I carry is my radio. Not calling anyone out in this thread nor trying to start arguments (this isn't GD). Just trying to shake up peoples paradigms a little. Will you have those first aid supplies with you if you're shot? If you sustain a severe laceration while on a foot pursuit? The what-ifs go on. That case I linked takes up virtually no real estate on my 32 inch waist. Alternatively, we have guys that pocket carry or velcro them to their vests. I neglected to mention the radio in my initial post, because, while it is certainly important, is your backup going to find you/ fix you before you bleed out? You will bleed out from a major artery dissection in about 3 minutes. However you will lose consciousness in about half that time and your gross motor skills will be impaired from shock/ adrenaline from the get-go. Your best bet at survival is immediate self aid instead of just letting dispatch know where to pick up your body. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 11:50:02 AM EDT
[#4]
Again I support having tourniquets. However, what are the statistics of showing the numbers of officers yearly who bleed out and die from an extremity wound that a tourniquet would have saved?
Most police wounds I am aware of that take an officer's life are torso shots....the officer either wasn't wearing a vest or the bullet penetrated an area that was not covered by the vest. Out of all the serious and fatal accidents I've responded to so far in my career not one needed a tourniquet. Once again, the tourniquet is an important piece of gear that I've been carrying since the military trained me to use it and then issued them to me and I would not consider any first aid kit complete without one. However, there is a limit to what can be carried on my person without carrying a pack....and I won't be carrying a pack on patrol. So, while I won't criticize anyone for carrying one on their person, I won't be carrying one on my person. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 12:52:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again I support having tourniquets. However, what are the statistics of showing the numbers of officers yearly who bleed out and die from an extremity wound that a tourniquet would have saved? Most police wounds I am aware of that take an officer's life are torso shots....the officer either wasn't wearing a vest or the bullet penetrated an area that was not covered by the vest. Out of all the serious and fatal accidents I've responded to so far in my career not one needed a tourniquet. Once again, the tourniquet is an important piece of gear that I've been carrying since the military trained me to use it and then issued them to me and I would not consider any first aid kit complete without one. However, there is a limit to what can be carried on my person without carrying a pack....and I won't be carrying a pack on patrol. So, while I won't criticize anyone for carrying one on their person, I won't be carrying one on my person. no idea on the statistics, but know of one, Officer Steven Underwood, Des Moines WA. Time flies by maybe 8-10 years ago. I am a fire guy, as you mention how much and where do you carry this that and the other thing. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 1:23:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryWill you have those first aid supplies with you if you're shot? If you sustain a severe laceration while on a foot pursuit? Quote HistoryWill you have those first aid supplies with you if you're shot? If you sustain a severe laceration while on a foot pursuit? If LE gets a foot laceration, even a severe one, no TQ is not called for medically and won't help. Nor will the average first aid kit. Your best bet as a LEO is to stop moving, use your RADIO and call for EMS. You won't bleed out with a severe foot laceration. Most law enforcement is not trained beyond first aid and sitting tight makes more sense than pretend self-care with pocket medical supplies will make any difference. The what-ifs go on What if a meteor drops on your head. Should we wear helmets all day too? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but there comes a point a person is being unreasonable. You will bleed out from a major artery dissection in about 3 minutes. However you will lose consciousness in about half that time and your gross motor skills will be impaired from shock/ adrenaline from the get-go. Your best bet at survival is immediate self aid instead of just letting dispatch know where to pick up your body. Correct. But you have four places to use a TQ, your arms and legs, along the brachial and femoral arteries. Your arms are 9% each of your overall body and legs are 18% each. Arteries are a VERY, VERY, VERY small part of that 54%. Chances of an artery being hit, slim. Add in that while hemorrhaging due to penetrating trauma is not the leading cause of death for law enforcement (unlike the military), and your chances of using, let alone needing a TQ for self care is slim. Law enforcement has a greater chance of dying via a heart attach or car accidents. I carry a TQ myself. But for the masses, having one is worthless if it doesn't accompany proper training. And most LEO's don't have the training. If you don't know when to use, where to use it or how t o use it, its nothing but a wasted tool, and encouraging folks just to get one because it doesn't take up space is a complete waste. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 5:33:27 PM EDT
[#7]
I believe they are important and carry one in a side pocket. Frankly I'm surprised by the posters above shitting on the thread.
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Posted: 11/18/2014 6:36:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If LE gets a foot laceration, even a severe one, no TQ is not called for medically and won't help. Nor will the average first aid kit. Your best bet as a LEO is to stop moving, use your RADIO and call for EMS. You won't bleed out with a severe foot laceration. Most law enforcement is not trained beyond first aid and sitting tight makes more sense than pretend self-care with pocket medical supplies will make any difference. I never said anything about a laceration to anyone's foot. The training and mindset issue are the problem, not the solution. I don't plan on playing "pretend" first aid if I'm able. I plan on being able to significantly reduce my bleeding if I'm able to do so instead of wishing i had my TQ. . What if a meteor drops on your head. Should we wear helmets all day too? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but there comes a point a person is being unreasonable. To my knowledge and research, no one has ever been killed by a meteor strike. Comparing the bulk and weight of a helmet to a TQ is just silly. Correct. But you have four places to use a TQ, your arms and legs, along the brachial and femoral arteries. Your arms are 9% each of your overall body and legs are 18% each. Arteries are a VERY, VERY, VERY small part of that 54%. Chances of an artery being hit, slim. Add in that while hemorrhaging due to penetrating trauma is not the leading cause of death for law enforcement (unlike the military), and your chances of using, let alone needing a TQ for self care is slim. Law enforcement has a greater chance of dying via a heart attach or car accidents. Of all the places I have been shot in Sim training, I get hit in the hands/ arms the most. The use of tourniquets and other basic TCCC skills reduced the instance of preventable deaths from combat injuries to 0 compared to 24% for the US military at large. When the body sustains trauma, it is not in a later beam trajectory, you have to account for the type, length, width and depth of a wound including wound cavitation, any of which can partially or fully dissect a critical artery or vein. Wouldn't you want to be able to quickly stop that bleeding in what, as you said, amounts to 54% of your body? You are correct in your statistical comparison versus the military but our line of work presents dangerous situations which are arguably the most similar to military combat, albeit much less frequently. We are still susceptible to being shot. Combat military units are not as susceptible to health related deaths as its members are predominantly young, fit, and thoroughly screened prior to enlistment. I carry a TQ myself. But for the masses, having one is worthless if it doesn't accompany proper training. And most LEO's don't have the training. If you don't know when to use, where to use it or how t o use it, its nothing but a wasted tool, and encouraging folks just to get one because it doesn't take up space is a complete waste. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will you have those first aid supplies with you if you're shot? If you sustain a severe laceration while on a foot pursuit? If LE gets a foot laceration, even a severe one, no TQ is not called for medically and won't help. Nor will the average first aid kit. Your best bet as a LEO is to stop moving, use your RADIO and call for EMS. You won't bleed out with a severe foot laceration. Most law enforcement is not trained beyond first aid and sitting tight makes more sense than pretend self-care with pocket medical supplies will make any difference. I never said anything about a laceration to anyone's foot. The training and mindset issue are the problem, not the solution. I don't plan on playing "pretend" first aid if I'm able. I plan on being able to significantly reduce my bleeding if I'm able to do so instead of wishing i had my TQ. The what-ifs go on What if a meteor drops on your head. Should we wear helmets all day too? Nothing wrong with being prepared, but there comes a point a person is being unreasonable. To my knowledge and research, no one has ever been killed by a meteor strike. Comparing the bulk and weight of a helmet to a TQ is just silly. You will bleed out from a major artery dissection in about 3 minutes. However you will lose consciousness in about half that time and your gross motor skills will be impaired from shock/ adrenaline from the get-go. Your best bet at survival is immediate self aid instead of just letting dispatch know where to pick up your body. Correct. But you have four places to use a TQ, your arms and legs, along the brachial and femoral arteries. Your arms are 9% each of your overall body and legs are 18% each. Arteries are a VERY, VERY, VERY small part of that 54%. Chances of an artery being hit, slim. Add in that while hemorrhaging due to penetrating trauma is not the leading cause of death for law enforcement (unlike the military), and your chances of using, let alone needing a TQ for self care is slim. Law enforcement has a greater chance of dying via a heart attach or car accidents. Of all the places I have been shot in Sim training, I get hit in the hands/ arms the most. The use of tourniquets and other basic TCCC skills reduced the instance of preventable deaths from combat injuries to 0 compared to 24% for the US military at large. When the body sustains trauma, it is not in a later beam trajectory, you have to account for the type, length, width and depth of a wound including wound cavitation, any of which can partially or fully dissect a critical artery or vein. Wouldn't you want to be able to quickly stop that bleeding in what, as you said, amounts to 54% of your body? You are correct in your statistical comparison versus the military but our line of work presents dangerous situations which are arguably the most similar to military combat, albeit much less frequently. We are still susceptible to being shot. Combat military units are not as susceptible to health related deaths as its members are predominantly young, fit, and thoroughly screened prior to enlistment. I carry a TQ myself. But for the masses, having one is worthless if it doesn't accompany proper training. And most LEO's don't have the training. If you don't know when to use, where to use it or how t o use it, its nothing but a wasted tool, and encouraging folks just to get one because it doesn't take up space is a complete waste. Training is simple. My department covers first aid and tourniquet use on an annual basis. I wouldn't recommend giving anyone a piece of equipment without training and was not encouraging anything like that here. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 6:46:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Be careful what you buy. There are actually tq's for Airsofters now that don't work, but look just like a CAT. Make sure the one you purchase is a real tq.
http://www.coalitiontacticalmedicine.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Combat%20Application%20Tourniquet%20(GEN%20III%20vs%20%20E-CAT)%20smallerfile.pdf |
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Posted: 11/19/2014 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Our department sent us our large department through combat medicine type courses. Props to them for that.
I carry a tourniquet in my side pants pocket and a folded up Israeli type bandage stuffed into the pocket in the front of my vest in front of my trauma plate. Seems with those on me at all times I could hopefully hold off until medics arrive. Stay safe all. |
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Posted: 11/19/2014 1:17:42 PM EDT
[#11]
I carry a SOFT-w I my cargo pocket. Keep an IFAK in my patrol car. Used SOFT-w on a guy who was shot threw the femoral in July. ER doctor said he only reason the dude lived was because of the tourniquet.
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Posted: 11/19/2014 1:38:55 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe they are important and carry one in a side pocket. Frankly I'm surprised by the posters above shitting on the thread. No one is shitting on anyone's thread. It's a difference of opinion. |
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Posted: 11/19/2014 7:07:29 PM EDT
[#13]
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life.
I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. |
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Posted: 11/20/2014 3:26:00 AM EDT
[#14]
I carry a tourny and seals on a tacmedic pouch velcroed to my vest. It is always on my person whether I need it or not. I have another first aid kit molled to my duty bag as well. i rather have and not need then to need and not have. stay safe.
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Posted: 11/20/2014 11:27:52 PM EDT
[#15]
As a Paramedic on a 911 ambulance, let me say this: EMS will not come in to the scene until it is secure (LEO/you guys have taken care of the threat and cleared us in).
Carrying a TQ on your person can increase your chances of survival until we get there. And I'll tell you this- our solution to your bleeding problem is a TQ. Yup. Our training has gotten rid of pressure points and raising the appendage above heart level. Now it's direct pressure, and than TQ. Surgeons use TQ's for HOURS on end with no end damage. So toss out the idea that 20min with a TQ will cause your arm/leg to fall off. IF you have the space available, be it in a pocket, on your belt, or on your vest, carry one. In the end, it's a simple piece of equipment that takes very little training to apply (place it above the injury, and crank down until blood stops pouring out of the wound). Being caught without one is WAY worse than carrying one and not needing it. |
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Posted: 11/20/2014 11:32:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again I support having tourniquets. However, what are the statistics of showing the numbers of officers yearly who bleed out and die from an extremity wound that a tourniquet would have saved? Most police wounds I am aware of that take an officer's life are torso shots....the officer either wasn't wearing a vest or the bullet penetrated an area that was not covered by the vest. Out of all the serious and fatal accidents I've responded to so far in my career not one needed a tourniquet. Once again, the tourniquet is an important piece of gear that I've been carrying since the military trained me to use it and then issued them to me and I would not consider any first aid kit complete without one. However, there is a limit to what can be carried on my person without carrying a pack....and I won't be carrying a pack on patrol. So, while I won't criticize anyone for carrying one on their person, I won't be carrying one on my person. No clue nor do I care. My luck it I am the one in a decade that it would have saved, therefore I carry one. Better to have one and not need it than need it and not have it. J- |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 11:01:44 AM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/21/2014 7:23:10 PM EDT
[#18]
I carry one in my right side cargo pocket, one in my driver door map pocket, one in my passenger seat caddy and there is one on my heavy vest in the back of my ride. There is also one the medic bag thats attached to my AED.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:06:30 PM EDT
[#19]
I carry one on my left ankle.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:52:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Who here is carrying a tourniquet on patrol? Those who aren't really should be! A tourniquet is the most important piece of life safety equipment you can carry outside of your gun and vest. I carry this setup on my duty belt. . We're issued the same thing; we have two other carrier options but are required to carry the TQ while working |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 1:34:43 AM EDT
[#21]
I carry one, a SOF-T. We actually train with them once a year; putting it on our own body, and putting them on a partner. We also do shoot and move drill with the tourniquet on so we know what it feels like and how much it can limit your mobility. Its a way to stay in the fight if you happen to have a catastrophic injury that requires a tourniquet. Its also good to carry one and know how to deploy it because the life you save my be someone else's.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 1:52:36 AM EDT
[#22]
I carry this small pouch in my patrol bag. I'm the only one in my department that carries a tourniquet at all.
Trauma Pack Pro w/ Quik Clot and SWAT-T Granted, it's not on me all of the time, it is close by. I think what is being said about carrying one on you has some merit. Real estate on my duty belt is limited but thankfully our uniform pants have cargo pockets. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:45:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe they are important and carry one in a side pocket. Frankly I'm surprised by the posters above shitting on the thread. Agreed. I'm a FF/PM and I've used them numerous times. It may be low probability but it is high consequence. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:20:49 AM EDT
[#24]
We're required to carry one on our person while on patrol. CAT TQ on left side cargo pocket. At this point we have enough for a couple additional ones as well. One center line, or thereabouts on issued plate carriers. I also keep one on my chest rig that's set up same as the PC.
ABQ female officer last year shot up by that mobile active shooter had a TQ applied. .54 and around the 4 minute mark Edit: A quick check of the media reports show 2 possibly 3 TQ's applied to officers during this single incident. One media report hypothesized that the shooter "aimed for the target (PD logo) on the doors of the cruisers". cheers, |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:42:05 AM EDT
[#25]
After I saw an actual femoral bleed...I will never leave the house without a basic IFAK. I carry a TQ (SOFTW, and SWAT-T for kids, plus hemostatic gauze, chest seal, and either an izzy dressing or similar). Dark Angel makes the smallest kit. I added flat folded duct tape and a needle after training.
I drag my backpack or man bag with me everywhere...religiously. It is as much for the kids as me. Kids go south fast and I am not going to have someone die because I was too lazy to bring my gear to the fight. |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 8:30:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Every AFO in my Dept. carried a personal trauma kit: tourniquet kit, Israeli Dressing, Quick-Clot bandage, Chest Seal.
Much more comprehensive kits in the vehicles including defib. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 3:39:56 AM EDT
[#27]
I have the TK+ Quikclot combo from that same company which I keep on my duty rig.
Quoted:
Every AFO in my Dept. carried a personal trauma kit: tourniquet kit, Israeli Dressing, Quick-Clot bandage, Chest Seal. Much more comprehensive kits in the vehicles including defib. Yeah I have an officer down kit which I keep in the glove box. Eventually all our units will have an officer down medical kit in the glove boxes. Quoted:
Again I support having tourniquets. However, what are the statistics of showing the numbers of officers yearly who bleed out and die from an extremity wound that a tourniquet would have saved? Most police wounds I am aware of that take an officer's life are torso shots....the officer either wasn't wearing a vest or the bullet penetrated an area that was not covered by the vest. Out of all the serious and fatal accidents I've responded to so far in my career not one needed a tourniquet. Once again, the tourniquet is an important piece of gear that I've been carrying since the military trained me to use it and then issued them to me and I would not consider any first aid kit complete without one. However, there is a limit to what can be carried on my person without carrying a pack....and I won't be carrying a pack on patrol. So, while I won't criticize anyone for carrying one on their person, I won't be carrying one on my person. It happens but its unlikely you'll see much hard data on it. We lost a guy in an off duty accident and if he'd have had a TK on him he'd have survived. He bled out holding his leg. Now a lot of guys keep them handy off duty as well. Also we've had 3 lives saved by TK usage within a few months after issue although none of them officers. I also know of several cases where officers improvised a TK (Inner belt + baton) in the past on themselves and survived because of it. This was before TK carrying was commonplace. Bottom line is, its foolhardy to be a uniformed patrol officer and to not carry/have 3 things. 1. Vest, 2. TK, 3. Quikclot or an equivalent. Chances of you getting shot are low. Chances of it being a LIFE THREATENING limb shot is even lower. However if there is an active shooter or cluster and you take a round and officers/medical cannot evac you for an extended period of time, why NOT be able to self AID? Also what if there is an active shooter and a few dozen people take rounds you included? You think as an officer with a limb wound you'll take priority over a few dozen innocents with other wounds? Unlikely. In the CO theatre shooting they were going to hospitals in other cities because of so many injuries...Sorry but a $100 pouch that carries a TK+ QC and takes up less then 4" space on my belt adding less then 1/4 a lb of weight is worth the gamble in my book. I look at it this way. If I die, that $100 will never be spent anyways. I have 2 issued TK and 2 personal. I've seen how effective they are and if I get an arterial bleed I'd rather have options then just bleed out and wish I had a TK. Like my coworker.... |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 9:43:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Just wanted to drop a note to everyone..
2 weeks ago I arrived home after shift 0945, neighbor (he is a cop and she is a RN) calls and says that their next door neighbor (2 houses away from me) has shot himself with a arrow?!? I spend my off time 30 minutes away from nowhere so I keep a pretty comprehensive med pack at home). When I arrived at the house my neighbor is bleeding out from a crossbow bolt that went thru his medial thigh ,lacerating but not severing his femoral artery. The bolt hunting point ended up severing the artery/nerve and achilles tenton also!?!. RN was applying direct pressure which was slowing the bleed but only after application of a tourniquet did we get the bleeding under control. Before EMS arrived I had an IV established and 2 x 500cc bags in him... Good news...he is alive, bad news is considerable damage was done by the crossbow bolt (he will walk again but it will be a hard road) Over the years I have seen the NO!! Tourniquets are bad bad bad, and now back to the tourniquets are good. Get one and learn how to use it, (it isn't rocket science). There are a few injuries that will only be resolved by application of a tourniquet and surgical intervention, if you or someone really close by doesn't have a tourniquet to apply, the surgical intervention will never occur. Stay safe out there! |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 12:15:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Ive carried one for years in my cargo pocket. My Squad (at the time) responded to a fight call where a man had punched through a window and he had severed his brachial artery. After that we all started carrying them.
Fast forward to this month and my Dept. started issuing CAT's and carriers for our duty belts. I'm not a harness guy anymore, but it's on my duty belt now for when I'm in Uniform at special events. |
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Posted: 12/13/2014 1:29:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. I checked OMDP to see if there was another one, but couldn't find one. I believe you're thinking of Colorado Trooper Eugene Hofacker, who is alive, and l recovering from the injuries he received in May. Eugene grew up in the town I patrol in NJ, and his family still lives here. He called into one of our PBA meetings 2 months ago to discus what happened to him. While on their way to a training session, they came upon a vehicle on the side of the highway. Eugene was shot by the driver 3 times, twice in the leg, and one in the arm. One of the shots to his leg cut his femoral artery. What most news outlets didn't report was that his partner packed the thigh wound with QuickClot gauze, which eventually slowed the bleeding. Eugene attributes the use of QuickClot to saving his life. Eugene's father has done an exemplary job in trying to push our PD and politicians to issue us tourniquets and hemostatic gauze for gunshot wounds, but our new chief has taken a position against it, as NJ EMs regulations do not allow for the use of hemostatic gauze. Some guys carry CAT tourniquets in their gear bags, but a few of us have recently purchased trauma plate packs from Officer Safety Solutions, as we wouldn't be allowed to carry the stuff on our belt currently, due to our uniform regulations. |
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Posted: 12/14/2014 12:34:02 PM EDT
[#31]
I have a CAT in the driver door pocket and another in the military IFAK on my seat organizer. I have a Tactical Medical Solutions Ballistic Response Pack with a TQ on my active shooter bag in the trunk.
I like the idea of carrying a TQ and maybe a chest seal on my vest. |
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Posted: 12/14/2014 8:30:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I carry one on belt. along with others placed around vehicle
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Posted: 12/14/2014 10:12:20 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a CAT in the driver door pocket and another in the military IFAK on my seat organizer. I have a Tactical Medical Solutions Ballistic Response Pack with a TQ on my active shooter bag in the trunk. I like the idea of carrying a TQ and maybe a chest seal on my vest. When i'm in class A uniform i carry a CAT on my concealed vest strap. when in class B i carry it in a cargo pocket. Not carrying one on your person does nothing for you unless you are injured in your car. just my 2cents J- |
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Posted: 12/14/2014 11:14:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Can someone compile a short list of quality options that would fit on a duty belt?
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Posted: 12/15/2014 3:25:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone compile a short list of quality options that would fit on a duty belt? I would think unless you have a 28inch waist any TQ is gonna fit on a duty belt. Most companies sell brand/model specific holders. We ALL carry CAT's at my dept because that is what we have all been trained on in our combat med training. J- |
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Posted: 12/16/2014 6:14:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone compile a short list of quality options that would fit on a duty belt? Go to the link in the original post. They have a number of different options |
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Posted: 12/17/2014 12:51:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Carry a CAT on my belt, GSK on my soft armor like JonnyR, and CAT and advanced 1st aid kit (my dept's name for them) on each of my plate carriers. Went through TEMS in 2000
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Posted: 12/17/2014 7:07:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:01:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:15:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:10:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. The problem most people come across with improvised TQ's is that they don't find an object to twist with. Take a necktie, tie it off, place a metal pen in and start twisting. It will clamp down, it is no different than how we have done it up until a few years ago when commercially available ones became popular in Fire/EMS. Just trying to get people to remember to think outside the box when faced with those types of situation. The problem is, even for Cops, when seconds count we are minutes away. And for those who think every Fire/EMS provider will wait til the scene is safe to come get you. I will not wait if it is at all feasible. If you are outside, you may be hopping in the back yourself but I believe I would roll on through to get you. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:16:16 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no idea on the statistics, but know of one, Officer Steven Underwood, Des Moines WA. Time flies by maybe 8-10 years ago. I am a fire guy, as you mention how much and where do you carry this that and the other thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again I support having tourniquets. However, what are the statistics of showing the numbers of officers yearly who bleed out and die from an extremity wound that a tourniquet would have saved? Most police wounds I am aware of that take an officer's life are torso shots....the officer either wasn't wearing a vest or the bullet penetrated an area that was not covered by the vest. Out of all the serious and fatal accidents I've responded to so far in my career not one needed a tourniquet. Once again, the tourniquet is an important piece of gear that I've been carrying since the military trained me to use it and then issued them to me and I would not consider any first aid kit complete without one. However, there is a limit to what can be carried on my person without carrying a pack....and I won't be carrying a pack on patrol. So, while I won't criticize anyone for carrying one on their person, I won't be carrying one on my person. no idea on the statistics, but know of one, Officer Steven Underwood, Des Moines WA. Time flies by maybe 8-10 years ago. I am a fire guy, as you mention how much and where do you carry this that and the other thing. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:21:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: One death that comes to my mind was either earlier this year or sometime last year. It was the Colorado highway patrol officer that was shot on his way to training after stopping to help a motorist. He was hit in the leg, arm and torso I believe. But what got me was the audio. He had backup in just a few seconds but the back up officer kept pleading for EMS to get there as fast as possible as the shot officer was bleeding out from his leg wound (femoral got hit). If either of them had a tourniquet it may have saved his life. I meet a soft-t in my (Gasp!) cargo pocket and another in my car. We have all been issued them as well as gone through basic TCCC training. It's a valuable skill not only for yourself but being first responders to scenes. I know I've used an issued tourniquet on a crash victim who had their brachial sliced. We've also been able to put occlusive dressings on stab wounds in the chests of victims and kept them around long enough for EMS to arrive. Anyways, they are great tools. I am not going to say not to carry one, it is a really great idea for everyone in your line of work to have one. But why, oh why, do I hear stories like this all the time. You all carry freaking huge zip ties, you wear belts, probably half of you are required to wear ties. I am not saying these are the best options, but all of them can be made into a tourniquet in a pinch. I know people frown on the zip tie/flexicuff use, but RBC's on the ground are far worse than the vascular injury when you are talking about a arterial bleed. Edit to all: I don't mean to Monday morning QB the officer that was on the call, I just hope that it will push people to think outside the box faced with the same situation. In a pinch, anything is better than nothing...but improvised TQs have a poor record. The vast majority of them fail to fully stop the bleeding. I can't see a zip tie actually getting tight enough to stop arterial flow. You can put a SWAT-T in your pocket and while it isn't my preferred TQ, it works and will work on kids as well as adults. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 6:30:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep one in my pocket. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 8:33:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i used to, now i keep an Israeli bandage Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I keep one in my pocket. Just an Izzy without packing material isn't going to do much on a serious bleeder. It is better than nothing...but for the same space, you could get a Olaes dressing and they are designed to have packing material built in that you can strip out. Personally, I would try to carry the IPOK from NA Rescue if at all possible...maybe a SWAT-T and some Cellox or a better TQ and an Olaes dressing with some flat tape. My minimum is generally a good TQ, hemostatic guaze, a seal, tape, and some sort of dressing. It can be made pretty small if you get the right components and spread them out over your gear. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:03:19 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just an Izzy without packing material isn't going to do much on a serious bleeder. It is better than nothing...but for the same space, you could get a Olaes dressing and they are designed to have packing material built in that you can strip out. Personally, I would try to carry the IPOK from NA Rescue if at all possible...maybe a SWAT-T and some Cellox or a better TQ and an Olaes dressing with some flat tape. My minimum is generally a good TQ, hemostatic guaze, a seal, tape, and some sort of dressing. It can be made pretty small if you get the right components and spread them out over your gear. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I keep one in my pocket. Just an Izzy without packing material isn't going to do much on a serious bleeder. It is better than nothing...but for the same space, you could get a Olaes dressing and they are designed to have packing material built in that you can strip out. Personally, I would try to carry the IPOK from NA Rescue if at all possible...maybe a SWAT-T and some Cellox or a better TQ and an Olaes dressing with some flat tape. My minimum is generally a good TQ, hemostatic guaze, a seal, tape, and some sort of dressing. It can be made pretty small if you get the right components and spread them out over your gear. I have plenty of room. I carry it in a cargo pocket, so adding stuff isn't a huge problem. Something like this? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 5:06:26 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have plenty of room. I carry it in a cargo pocket, so adding stuff isn't a huge problem. Something like this? https://www.narescue.com/portal.aspx?CN=AAD4B16D2A2C&BC=03D65919088F Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I keep one in my pocket. Just an Izzy without packing material isn't going to do much on a serious bleeder. It is better than nothing...but for the same space, you could get a Olaes dressing and they are designed to have packing material built in that you can strip out. Personally, I would try to carry the IPOK from NA Rescue if at all possible...maybe a SWAT-T and some Cellox or a better TQ and an Olaes dressing with some flat tape. My minimum is generally a good TQ, hemostatic guaze, a seal, tape, and some sort of dressing. It can be made pretty small if you get the right components and spread them out over your gear. I have plenty of room. I carry it in a cargo pocket, so adding stuff isn't a huge problem. Something like this? https://www.narescue.com/portal.aspx?CN=AAD4B16D2A2C&BC=03D65919088F Yes, that's my minimalist kit. If I were more than 20 min from an ER, I would add a vented chest seal, a standard chest seal, a needle, and some tape. I also try to carry a SWAT-T as it works on kids where most other TQs don't fit small limbs. Also, the CAT is weaker than the SOF-T. There are documented cases of CATs failing on wounded soldiers due to blood and dirt or broken windlass rods. The SOFTW is the best TQ on the market IMO. Keep in mind...one wound is one kit. Multiple wounds may require multiple kits...so I keep one on me, one in the door of my car, one in the console...and so on. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 6:55:43 PM EDT
[#48]
I have the same TQ setup as the OP. It doesn't take long to bleed out. Just carry the damn thing, and get training in how to use it.
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Posted: 12/21/2014 8:01:55 PM EDT
[#49]
The belt pouch is a great idea. I carry two CATs in the medical section of my pack when I am at work. The pack is always very close by, but a TQ on the belt is a great idea. Combat Gauze is needed too. Some places a TQ ain't gonna cut it...
I just got out of EMT school a few weeks ago. As the medic that posted earlier stated, current training teaches direct pressure first, then straight to the TQ if that doesn't work. |
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Posted: 12/22/2014 6:46:16 PM EDT
[#50]
I sometimes carry one in my front right pocket. I have two or three in my trunk, one in the medical kit shoved between my cage divider and the passenger seat headrest, and one in the driver's side door pocket.
I also carry a chest seal and decompression needle in my vest's trauma plate pocket. Got training on it all too. |
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