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Posted: 10/17/2014 2:49:46 AM EDT
[#1]
NVM...
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:50:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
With the United States on the brink of a pandemic when would you abandon your post to keep you and (or) your family safe? Pretty straight forward question. Really for nothing more than shits and giggles. So...when do you call it quits, fend for yourself, give up your pension/retirement, decide the world is over as we know it, and execute SHTF plan A-Z? Stay safe folks. It isn't getting any easier out there. We are already in a Pandemic. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 8:17:27 AM EDT
[#3]
You might ask the guys that used to work for NOPD when Katrina hit New Orleans. I wasn't there, but there were news reports that marked police cars were found abandoned in Texas and that an "unknown number" of officers failed to report for duty.
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Posted: 10/17/2014 2:26:06 PM EDT
[#4]
ScotchyMcDrinkerbean (insert thumbs up here) would be a good source of how to tough out a tough situation.
I'd love to read his full experiences and what he learned in an AAR, from pre, during and post Katrina. IIRC, his punishment for sticking it out, was a promotion to Lieutenant. Given that was the prize, I'm not sure it would be worth it. Jay |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:23:54 PM EDT
[#5]
I've actually thought about this and I'd say when all the other officers are gone/dispatchers are no longer at their posts. Dispatchers are civilians and they'd probably bail quick. Without them we've no way of knowing about any incoming 911 calls anyway.
I don't have a wife/kids and my other family I 'care' about is pretty much limited. I live in my precinct so assuming something was going down I could technically have the few family members I care about come to my house and I could be with them without actually 'abandoning' my post. The idea of bugging out to some rural location is an unrealistic fantasy. If SHTF the people who are out driving around on the road in a vehicle loaded down with goodies will probably be the first to die. Why? Because unless you live in an already rural location your gonna spend many hours in gridlocked traffic. Plus most people's homes are the most secure/prepared place to withstand any kind of natural disaster or otherwise. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 10:35:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Ya I'm not a big fan of bugging out either. Id rather stay with what I have built. I work for a smaller department in a town of about 17k. I was having some beers with guys discussing this. If Ebola goes into full swing and gets as bad as it can segregating yourself is one of the only options. Of course that doesn't go too well with our line of work...
I haven't come up with an answer for myself quite yet. I figure I'll adapt as the situation changes and evaluate what to do. If things get horrible our government's job is to action and keep our system intact. We are all an extension of that. I just wonder a what point is it a lost cause. Hope it doesn't get to that. |
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Posted: 10/17/2014 10:37:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Firecop and AZ you both bring up real life response to my question, thanks. I'm interested now in reading up on that
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Posted: 10/18/2014 6:15:50 AM EDT
[#8]
I will leave my post when orders become unconstitutional or I can no longer keep my family safe and work at the same time. When that time comes, it will not be a hard decision.
Until then, I chose to work the job. Despite what some think, cops keep the chaos at bay so me/others leaving only worsens the problem |
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Posted: 10/18/2014 11:06:06 AM EDT
[#9]
I honestly can't tell you. I have thought about it. I just haven't come up with a good answer. The wife stops working when they put Ebola patients in regular rooms on her floor. I think it is easier to protect myself from it in an ambulance. I can always put on a tyvek and an scba. Not afraid to look crazy. So I don't know yet. We can pay bills on my salary, not with us both not working.
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Posted: 10/18/2014 11:03:57 PM EDT
[#10]
When departmental cohesion disintegrates to where there is no remaining chain of command or communication capability
At that point I take my patrol car home and park it out back and wait for better days to return. |
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Posted: 10/19/2014 5:25:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will leave my post when orders become unconstitutional or I can no longer keep my family safe and work at the same time. When that time comes, it will not be a hard decision. Until then, I chose to work the job. Despite what some think, cops keep the chaos at bay so me/others leaving only worsens the problem I completely agree with you. I think if people see Police, fire, ems, military etc abandoning our positions they will believe that all is lost and that will exacerbate the situation. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 3:35:53 AM EDT
[#12]
I'd guess a lot of us think how bad could it get before we bail, but the reality is we'd probably stick out a lot of BS just to avoid abandoning our buddies. Like mentioned, we keep the chaos at bay.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 3:42:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd guess a lot of us think how bad could it get before we bail, but the reality is we'd probably stick out a lot of BS just to avoid abandoning our buddies. Like mentioned, we keep the chaos at bay. Quotes from Black Hawk Down and Bringing Out The Dead seem very appropriate here... |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:09:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd guess a lot of us think how bad could it get before we bail, but the reality is we'd probably stick out a lot of BS just to avoid abandoning our buddies. Like mentioned, we keep the chaos at bay. Absolutely, but at some point everyone has to agree to fall back to the office and come up with a plan so that noone is left out there unaccounted for As someone mentioned, once the dispatch capability goes down and you lose a lot of resources you normally draw on, it hampers your ability to be effective if you arrest someone you can't take them to jail without a judge. Heck, you can't even arraign them anymore here without counsel present. If you manage to get a judge and a lawyer, good luck getting the jail to accept them if they are themselves running on skeleton shifts. So on and so on |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 9:54:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When departmental cohesion disintegrates to where there is no remaining chain of command or communication capability At that point I take my patrol car home and park it out back and wait for better days to return. But, wouldn't that be the time to re-organize, regroup and establish a leadership role? |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:51:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But, wouldn't that be the time to re-organize, regroup and establish a leadership role? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When departmental cohesion disintegrates to where there is no remaining chain of command or communication capability At that point I take my patrol car home and park it out back and wait for better days to return. But, wouldn't that be the time to re-organize, regroup and establish a leadership role? My original post assumed there was no functional organization to lead anymore. |
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Posted: 10/23/2014 8:38:20 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm a volunteer, certified reserve. It would be real easy for me to chock up the dueces.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 2:03:11 PM EDT
[#18]
This has come up recently and you can tell the guys who are devoted to the job and their partners and the guys who are just there. Alot of us say that unless everyone goes none of us would go. Some say that as soon as things got bad they would head home.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:16:56 PM EDT
[#19]
The answer is simple. I don't abandon your community/post.
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Posted: 10/23/2014 5:50:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The answer is simple. I don't abandon your community/post. There comes some point when you can no longer perform your tasks If I don't have fuel for my car, I can't patrol. I have good neighbors, but if I choose patrolling over my family/ home and my home is looted due to being gone, it makes no sense to have made that choice |
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Posted: 10/24/2014 9:44:21 AM EDT
[#21]
For Ebola? No.
For Biblical super flu? Maybe. |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 2:56:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely, but at some point everyone has to agree to fall back to the office and come up with a plan so that noone is left out there unaccounted for As someone mentioned, once the dispatch capability goes down and you lose a lot of resources you normally draw on, it hampers your ability to be effective if you arrest someone you can't take them to jail without a judge. Heck, you can't even arraign them anymore here without counsel present. If you manage to get a judge and a lawyer, good luck getting the jail to accept them if they are themselves running on skeleton shifts. So on and so on Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd guess a lot of us think how bad could it get before we bail, but the reality is we'd probably stick out a lot of BS just to avoid abandoning our buddies. Like mentioned, we keep the chaos at bay. Absolutely, but at some point everyone has to agree to fall back to the office and come up with a plan so that noone is left out there unaccounted for As someone mentioned, once the dispatch capability goes down and you lose a lot of resources you normally draw on, it hampers your ability to be effective if you arrest someone you can't take them to jail without a judge. Heck, you can't even arraign them anymore here without counsel present. If you manage to get a judge and a lawyer, good luck getting the jail to accept them if they are themselves running on skeleton shifts. So on and so on I'd imagine if it were that bad it'd be beat and release or shoot on sight to keep order...Basically the wolves taking advantage of the sheep would be open season. 
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Posted: 10/25/2014 8:24:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd imagine if it were that bad it'd be beat and release or shoot on sight to keep order...Basically the wolves taking advantage of the sheep would be open season. I don't think the transition will be that smooth or quick It'll take some time for the publics mentality to change from " I'm picking up the phone and calling 911" to "kick this guys ass and deal with the problem on our own" There will be a large percentage of the public who simply wont be able to shift those gears Its why the police organizations exist now. Plenty of people in society who don't want to bear the responsibility of their own security |
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Posted: 10/25/2014 4:38:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think the transition will be that smooth or quick It'll take some time for the publics mentality to change from " I'm picking up the phone and calling 911" to "kick this guys ass and deal with the problem on our own" There will be a large percentage of the public who simply wont be able to shift those gears Its why the police organizations exist now. Plenty of people in society who don't want to bear the responsibility of their own security Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd imagine if it were that bad it'd be beat and release or shoot on sight to keep order...Basically the wolves taking advantage of the sheep would be open season. I don't think the transition will be that smooth or quick It'll take some time for the publics mentality to change from " I'm picking up the phone and calling 911" to "kick this guys ass and deal with the problem on our own" There will be a large percentage of the public who simply wont be able to shift those gears Its why the police organizations exist now. Plenty of people in society who don't want to bear the responsibility of their own security Yeah I was talking about the police, not the public. If no jails or judges/courts that'd be the short time solution. With no dispatch I'd imagine centralised patrols with Sgt's and higher acting as our quasi dispatchers to keep tabs on where everyone is at. i |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:44:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah I was talking about the police, not the public. If no jails or judges/courts that'd be the short time solution. With no dispatch I'd imagine centralised patrols with Sgt's and higher acting as our quasi dispatchers to keep tabs on where everyone is at. i Our dispatch center is not in our building As I said, the issue of fuel would come up pretty quick We dumped our own tanks 20 years ago due to EPA regs, and I've always expected that one day it would come back to bite us when things are not "normal course of business" |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:50:55 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our dispatch center is not in our building As I said, the issue of fuel would come up pretty quick We dumped our own tanks 20 years ago due to EPA regs, and I've always expected that one day it would come back to bite us when things are not "normal course of business" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah I was talking about the police, not the public. If no jails or judges/courts that'd be the short time solution. With no dispatch I'd imagine centralised patrols with Sgt's and higher acting as our quasi dispatchers to keep tabs on where everyone is at. i Our dispatch center is not in our building As I said, the issue of fuel would come up pretty quick We dumped our own tanks 20 years ago due to EPA regs, and I've always expected that one day it would come back to bite us when things are not "normal course of business" Be back on horses! ...too bad most departments are losing there mounted divisions too. Damn. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 4:55:13 AM EDT
[#27]
I'd probably get locked in, if we had a confirmed case of ebola in the jail. It's hard to abandon ship when they won't open the door.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:00:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be back on horses! ...too bad most departments are losing there mounted divisions too. Damn. That would require a huge materiel acquisition and training curve since only one deputy owns horses and only two of us have any experience with horses and mine was 35 years ago If it came to that I believe society would pretty much be in the toilet because a mounted officer is only going to be able to patrol within a few miles of his current location The days of having a quarter or a half of the county as a patrol zone would be finished A growing number of our officers don't even live in our county, so you'd have to physically move them close to the office just to have a place for them to stay You'd be better off converting some of the fleet to alternative fuels |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:03:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd probably get locked in, if we had a confirmed case of ebola in the jail. It's hard to abandon ship when they won't open the door. They gonna weld your sally ports closed? We always had emergency rings of keys to get through any doors Realistically one case of ebola in your facility, they'll do exactly what they're doing now with individual cases If your control room starts looking like the lunch room in The Stand then you've got some issues |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:19:11 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They gonna weld your sally ports closed? We always had emergency rings of keys to get through any doors Realistically one case of ebola in your facility, they'll do exactly what they're doing now with individual cases If your control room starts looking like the lunch room in The Stand then you've got some issues Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd probably get locked in, if we had a confirmed case of ebola in the jail. It's hard to abandon ship when they won't open the door. They gonna weld your sally ports closed? We always had emergency rings of keys to get through any doors Realistically one case of ebola in your facility, they'll do exactly what they're doing now with individual cases If your control room starts looking like the lunch room in The Stand then you've got some issues Obviously I can't get to far into it. But in the age of new jails, physical keys are limited and more easily controled. It's not like the old days where every officer had a key to everything. They have already shown they will absolutely "lock down" in a possible case of ebola. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 5:55:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously I can't get to far into it. But in the age of new jails, physical keys are limited and more easily controled. It's not like the old days where every officer had a key to everything. They have already shown they will absolutely "lock down" in a possible case of ebola. Back in my CO days the emergency ring sets were kept in the control room Not like every floor CO had every key to the building I am sure things have changed |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 6:08:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back in my CO days the emergency ring sets were kept in the control room Not like every floor CO had every key to the building I am sure things have changed Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Obviously I can't get to far into it. But in the age of new jails, physical keys are limited and more easily controled. It's not like the old days where every officer had a key to everything. They have already shown they will absolutely "lock down" in a possible case of ebola. Back in my CO days the emergency ring sets were kept in the control room Not like every floor CO had every key to the building I am sure things have changed I didn't mean to imply they had keys to every door in the building. Sorry about that. With the computer controls they have on everything here, if the emergancy keys were snatched by a supervisor before I could get them, I wouldn't be able to make it off the floor. Even if I did get out, I couldn't get out of the perimeter fence without the control room opening the gate. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our dispatch center is not in our building As I said, the issue of fuel would come up pretty quick We dumped our own tanks 20 years ago due to EPA regs, and I've always expected that one day it would come back to bite us when things are not "normal course of business" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah I was talking about the police, not the public. If no jails or judges/courts that'd be the short time solution. With no dispatch I'd imagine centralised patrols with Sgt's and higher acting as our quasi dispatchers to keep tabs on where everyone is at. i Our dispatch center is not in our building As I said, the issue of fuel would come up pretty quick We dumped our own tanks 20 years ago due to EPA regs, and I've always expected that one day it would come back to bite us when things are not "normal course of business" Neither is ours, but using radios and computers, or even pad and paper, they could go old school and keep track of us. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 12:59:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither is ours, but using radios and computers, or even pad and paper, they could go old school and keep track of us. I doubt that many of ours would even show up for work if it was anything more than a temporary problem. I don't think they even have a generator to power their stuff . I might be wrong |
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