I am looking at picking up a fixed blade as a back up lethal weapon to mount weak side, in the scenario that I may have to struggle/prevent someone from grabbing my gun and try to get it out of my holster...OR just not having access to my weapon due to a physical altercation....ie: Strong side arm occupied

Anyway, #1 goal is to never have to use it/resort to using it but better to have it and not use it than need it and not have it right?

I am looking at two different options, the Kabar TDI  or the ESEE IZULA....

PROS and CONS....Kabar looks like it'd be more concealed due to grip angle, however, I've owned an ESEE 3 and thought the quality was great and AMERICAN made ...Also have heard the TDI's sheath does not have good retention....

Thoughts?

A few other options to check out are the Emerson La Griffe and the Alan Folts Minimalist (CRKT also makes a very inexpensive production version of the Minimalist that's quite nice for the price).

I personally carry a La Griffe. It was purpose built for self defense just like the Kabar TDI so it works really well in that role.

I'm aware of one case where during handcuffing the suspect drew the officers fixed blade knife and used it to attack both officers on scene. Be carefull about where you carry it. Lots of cops seem to like the push dagger behind the magazine carriers but thats a prime location for a take away.

I am aware of this, A friend of mine carries a Kabar TDI behind his mag carrier which is right up front...I personally dont like this, I think I am going to stick it behind my radio or close to it, which is about 3 oclock, (im a lefty) somewhere where its not so obvious or noticable.

I started carrying a knife in 2000 after my partner was choked out with his mic cord. Bad guy had backed into a corner using partner for cover. There was no safe shot, not even a contact shot was in the cards that day. I've carried a folder ever since in my left cargo pocket. I've told more then a few guys that carry knives exposed that they are not doing themselves or anyone else around them a favor. Some still just don't get it and are little more than portable cover.  

I like the Benchmade Contego. I think that's what its called. The window punch on it works great too.

I like the smaller TDI knife.

Rick Hinderer and TDI were supposed to come out with a collaboration.

I've got to play with it at a Defensive Knife course I took.

Not sure if it is readily available though.



I always carried mine on my regular belt then with my gun belt on, it was behind my radio.

I never had any problems with retention.

The Hinderer/TDI collaboration knife is out now. I think it's an improved design.  The major difference is the sheath now has retention.

I carry an Izula on my gun belt, weak side behind my flashlight at around the 8:00 position. It is very well hidden but easily accessible. I don't have a picture but could take one for you next week if you want.

I carry a SOG trident in my support side pocket.  It has a notch in the handle which allows it to be a seat belt cutter as well.  What I like about the folder is how easy it is to conceal and less likely for a bad guy to see it and take it away.  The thing I dislike is the extra motion to deploy the blade.  If I had to choose between your two choices I would personally go with the TDI for a few reasons.  I am partial to Ka-Bar from my Marine Corps days and the angle of the blade allows for a very simple attack...just punch.  It seems easy to use and appears that it would have better retention of the handle was covered in blood.  My two cents...

I had a crazy guy's hand graze my TDI blade once.  I even had painted the outboard side of the handle grey to match our uniform shirts in an effort to hide it some.  I ditched it in favor of a Benchmade OTF auto which lives in the support side pocket of our cargos.

I'll admit, I use the back side of the blade for opening boxes and shit but I swear, the sharp end will only touch f,esh and bone.





cheers,

Push dagger is one of the better tools. I found it easier to grab and the holster options allow it to rest behind your other gear.

Just got one.  Also slightly larger than the small TDI with a straighter grip angle.

Haven't removed the Karambit from my belt yet to try the TDI Hnderer out, but thinking of doing that this weekend.

Are you a trained knife fighter?  Not trying to be an internet smartass but be serious with yourself.  Think about it? Everybody thinks they can just pull out a knife and start slaying people. Reality is a little different.

I am NOT a trained knife fighter so prefer to carry an extra pistol, which I have received training in.  I do carry a folding knife as a cutting tool but not as secondary weapon.

It is about layers of protection.


I'm not going to pull out my knife and start chopping heads off like Braveheart.





Where is your back up gun located?


If it like most of us it is under your uniform shirt, against your vest.


It will take some dexterity to get the shirt open and get your gun out. Things that are hard to do when a nut job high on God knows what has you around the waist and is trying to pile drive you through the pavement.





The nice thing with the TDI knife is it is right where you need it, takes no dexterity to deploy and will certainly sever large muscles preventing the bad guy from getting your gun.


When you went through the academy did your DT instructor show you how to stab someone with a pen? The knife is a better pointy thingy to stab someone with, it will also slice causing muscle and tendon damage preventing bad guy from using his appendages. If your knife is buried in your pocket you will never get it in a time of crisis.





and yes I am a trained Defensive Knife fighter / instructor.
 

Pics?

Do you have a laser on it too

I agree with green jeans. see a lot of guys (one of my best friends included) who go buy a badass backup knife and have this cool story about how they will use it. more than a few have said "its simple" or "how hard can it be" when I ask them if they even know how to knife fight..
If you do know how to knife fight (cpd670) then by all means you carry a fighting knife because youre competant with it. for those that arent, you are introducing another weapon to the fight you could lose control of....
Same concept, I carry my 642 backup in my support front pocket to use in the situation where someones going for my gun/strong arm is pinned...

I agree a BUG would be a better option in most cases.  The agency I work for doesn't allow them, so I went with the tdi.  Always exploring other options though

Exploring options is good.



I also believe a BUG is extremely preferable to a knife. I carry both, a Kahr PM9 (support ankle) and a Benchmade 5000 (support pocket). I was never trained in knife-fighting, but I have picked up a few tips and self-taught to some extent. I had done the same training method for years, being entirely self-taught with firearms, picking up whatever new good advice I could learn, before ever receiving any formal training. That worked out fine. I learned some at firearms training, but was already in the top 1% of the academy class.



Am I knocking formal training? Not at all. There are only 2 problems I encounter:

Finding a good trainer

Getting into the class through time/driving/money



Good trainers help YOU train. You need to be able to figure stuff out (train) on your own. You shouldn't require an instructor to help you learn things all the time. (That's a crutch.)



That said, only perfect practice makes perfect, so be sure what you're practicing is a sound method. Then determine what the best employment is. Then practice that.



I won't tell anyone I'm a knife fighter (never told anyone I was a gun fighter either), but if I feel it's in my best interest to hit that Auto-axis button and slash/stab a guy, that's exactly what I plan to do. Mostly it just sees tape, boxes, and the occasional rope.



My only practice consists of "air fighting" imaginary perps in my living room, much like how I practice room clearing. (Yes, it looks ridiculous!) I've tried over and under-hand gripping. There are strengths and limitations to each. There's slashing and stabbing, which are obviously different techniques. Nothing will simulate going through a rib cage or slicing a neck, but at least I have some teenage hunting experiences to draw from.



My current partner and shift sergeant is the defensive tactics instructor for our agency. He's great with Tasers, batons, and fighting/grappling, but we both admitted knives were an under-developed skill area for us. I picked up a Cold Steel rubber training knife at Knob Creek, so after finding chalk powder we intend to "play" with that on our mats and see what we can learn...



(OK, mostly I learn.)



Sparring is awesome for learning!