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Posted: 3/30/2014 3:35:55 PM EDT
[#1]
If you get involved in a shooting, may be a "while" before and sometimes if you get YOUR gun back.
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Posted: 3/30/2014 4:58:59 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm hoping (once I start patrol) to be allowed to carry a suppressed SBR for patrol. I figure if by our grabbing it for an active shooter the last thing on your mind is ear pro, might as well have a gun that won't make you deaf.
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Posted: 3/30/2014 5:02:07 PM EDT
[#3]
I use a 10.5 with a KX3 on it.
Much easier to get out of a car with than a 16". If I use it... And it saves my ass... Waiting to get it back is no big deal. |
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Posted: 3/30/2014 5:24:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Wait on the return is no big deal....but maybe I'll buy two just in case.
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Posted: 3/30/2014 5:54:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hoping (once I start patrol) to be allowed to carry a suppressed SBR for patrol. I figure if by our grabbing it for an active shooter the last thing on your mind is ear pro, might as well have a gun that won't make you deaf. If you get in an OSI, hearing protection won't even list on the top 10 of concerns |
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Posted: 3/30/2014 6:59:19 PM EDT
[#6]
I used to worry about the gun being held for a while too. But then I realized I can get another and being alive is more important. On that note every OIS I've seen at my dept the past several years and they've all had gun back same or next day. I personally like 16" for more velocity and I've had no problems with it even in a house.
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Posted: 3/30/2014 9:27:04 PM EDT
[#7]
We're running the fed tac t-1 and expansion has been great in our SRT commandos. Normally I'm all for more velocity but getting a full length carbine out is a PITA sometimes. When I started back in 92, all we had was a radio head and a light bar switch. Now I've got printers and computers and radars and gps and cables everywhere and I'll take any advantage I can get to get my gun out of that mess easier.
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Posted: 3/31/2014 4:50:42 AM EDT
[#8]
My agency issues 10.5" Rock River SBRs for every patrol car. I use my own 11.5" BCM, as do several other Officers with SBR'd Colts, Noveske, DD, etc.
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Posted: 3/31/2014 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#9]
My agency issues Colt SBRs or we have the option to carry our own Colt NFA guns.
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Posted: 3/31/2014 5:13:12 PM EDT
[#10]
I just asked this question the other day to one of the patrol rifle instructors. His answer was.... "I am not sure but I will find out.".
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Posted: 3/31/2014 7:13:26 PM EDT
[#11]
We have gone to RRA 14.5 inch barrel AR-15 from our Colt 16" barrel saved me 1.5 inches and can't use 55 gr bullets as we have all had problems with the rounds keying so in the long run saved 1.5 inches to end up with having ammo problems. To me not really worth the 1.5 inches but it was some guy who gets payed $100K+ who knows nothing about shooting that made this pick! What does the three time combat Marine know? To them I don't know what side the bullet comes out of the rifle!
SBR and a can I don't know to many patrol unites that allow the everyday officer carry a can on there patrol weapon! Might get SBR but only people I see with the can are SRT, SWAT or other special units! |
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Posted: 3/31/2014 9:05:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Spikes w a 10.3 DD barrel on it. Sittin next to me in the psgr seat right now
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Posted: 3/31/2014 9:09:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Local SO carries M16s in all the patrol cars. Supplied by the SO.
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Posted: 3/31/2014 10:44:33 PM EDT
[#14]
I carried a 11.5 then later a 12.5. Carried a can but it's too unwieldy/heavy with it on the end of the barrel, so I usually just left it off.
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Posted: 4/1/2014 5:42:21 AM EDT
[#15]
I use an SBR with a suppressor.
Basically if you can qual with it you can carry it. |
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Posted: 4/1/2014 5:43:27 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carried a 11.5 then later a 12.5. Carried a can but it's too unwieldy/heavy with it on the end of the barrel, so I usually just left it off. Get a Ti can. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 1:14:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use an SBR with a suppressor. Basically if you can qual with it you can carry it. This. As far as I know, we just have to stay .223/5.56. I keep my can separate in a mag pouch on my bag. 10.3" bbl 
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:43:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get a Ti can. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I carried a 11.5 then later a 12.5. Carried a can but it's too unwieldy/heavy with it on the end of the barrel, so I usually just left it off. Get a Ti can. I'd suggest a mini suppressor. Something like the Mini-4 takes a huge amount of the blast away for a minimal length/weight penalty. 5.56 is kinda noisy no matter what but IMO a mini can is a great choice to keep the carbine handy and make the muzzle blast much more manageable. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 1:01:57 PM EDT
[#19]
I think for Le work it's great, I can't think of any disadvantages minus velocity of the 5.56 out of the short barrell but that's mostly a distance problem
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:15:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have gone to RRA 14.5 inch barrel AR-15 from our Colt 16" barrel saved me 1.5 inches and can't use 55 gr bullets as we have all had problems with the rounds keying so in the long run saved 1.5 inches to end up with having ammo problems. To me not really worth the 1.5 inches but it was some guy who gets payed $100K+ who knows nothing about shooting that made this pick! What does the three time combat Marine know? To them I don't know what side the bullet comes out of the rifle! SBR and a can I don't know to many patrol unites that allow the everyday officer carry a can on there patrol weapon! Might get SBR but only people I see with the can are SRT, SWAT or other special units! This probably has more to do with going from a 1x7 twist to a 1x9. Still shouldn't be keyholing with 55 grn ammo. Barrel length has nothing to do with this. Are these factory built uppers or did your "armorer" (I will talk shit, I got the certificate saying that I am a "certified" Ruger SSR armorer) put these together? It sounds like there are bigger issues with your weapons. Rob ETA: OP I am running a DD 11.5 on top of a DRMO M16A1 at work. No can. If you are the shooter you won't even notice the shot, but you will if you are next to him  .
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:33:05 PM EDT
[#21]
The PD where I work will not allow it. They cite the whole barrel length to velocity shenanigans....The armorers want it, the patrol guys want it...the brass...nope.
The SO lets their guys carry whatever they want as long as they qualify... I do understand legal issues, and would hate to LOSE a weapon due to a OIS, but I would rather that happen and have saved lives, then not...and or lost my own. However the discussion has been brought to the table regarding the fact that in the vast majority of LE gun fights the distance is minimal so velocity is no issue especially if ammo is proper. I do however have my 11.5 piston and YHM Phantom ready to go if my issued carbine goes down... Tried by 12... |
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Posted: 6/10/2014 1:43:18 AM EDT
[#22]
I had a DPMS kitty kat issued for a while with a Noveski pig. The thing was nice and compact, I could sit behind the steering wheel and aim out the windshield if I needed to. I eventually turned it in and started using my own again.
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Posted: 6/10/2014 3:20:39 AM EDT
[#23]
For some reason personally owned rifles carried on duty must be 16 inch barrels, but the department issues Colt 6933's with 11.5 inch barrels.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 6:17:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Mine allows any 1/7 or 1/9 twist barrel 10.5" to 16". I run a Colt 6943 (11.5"). No suppressors allowed though. And we do not turn over our weapons after a OIS. The officers take the weapons to the lab the next business day where it is ballistic tested and given right back to them.
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Posted: 6/13/2014 2:58:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Anybody's agency have an issue with guys carrying personally owned NFA on patrol? WA finally legalized supressors a year or two ago and now SBR's are golden. Just interested in the usual arguments against so I can head them off if admin freaks out. Command: "What if someone makes an SBR and doesn't register it?" Me: "We will fire him for a policy violation and IA/DA can decide whether or not to charge him. We will subsequently report the offense to ATF." Command: "Oh, ok." Personally I'm not a big fan of any 5.56 shorter than 14". The round loses alot of its terminal performance and there are already enough officers with hearing damage as it is. |
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Posted: 6/13/2014 7:06:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This probably has more to do with going from a 1x7 twist to a 1x9. Still shouldn't be keyholing with 55 grn ammo. Barrel length has nothing to do with this. Are these factory built uppers or did your "armorer" (I will talk shit, I got the certificate saying that I am a "certified" Ruger SSR armorer) put these together? It sounds like there are bigger issues with your weapons. Rob ETA: OP I am running a DD 11.5 on top of a DRMO M16A1 at work. No can. If you are the shooter you won't even notice the shot, but you will if you are next to him .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We have gone to RRA 14.5 inch barrel AR-15 from our Colt 16" barrel saved me 1.5 inches and can't use 55 gr bullets as we have all had problems with the rounds keying so in the long run saved 1.5 inches to end up with having ammo problems. To me not really worth the 1.5 inches but it was some guy who gets payed $100K+ who knows nothing about shooting that made this pick! What does the three time combat Marine know? To them I don't know what side the bullet comes out of the rifle! SBR and a can I don't know to many patrol unites that allow the everyday officer carry a can on there patrol weapon! Might get SBR but only people I see with the can are SRT, SWAT or other special units! This probably has more to do with going from a 1x7 twist to a 1x9. Still shouldn't be keyholing with 55 grn ammo. Barrel length has nothing to do with this. Are these factory built uppers or did your "armorer" (I will talk shit, I got the certificate saying that I am a "certified" Ruger SSR armorer) put these together? It sounds like there are bigger issues with your weapons. Rob ETA: OP I am running a DD 11.5 on top of a DRMO M16A1 at work. No can. If you are the shooter you won't even notice the shot, but you will if you are next to him .These were bought from RRA so far we have had a bolt crack in two spots a firing pin brake and 55 gr ammo key holes at 100 yards but the 62 gr ammo we have now is no problem. The Key hole problem is with about 60% of our rifles I say its the rifle but the Glock armor we have said its the bullets yet he has never built an AR-15! I'm trying to go to a class to be our AR-15 Armor after that I might go and get my FFL. Like I said I'm with you I feel its the weapon not the ammo really feel this way after the bolt and firing pin broke and yes these were bought from RRA though a LEO buy. |
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Posted: 6/13/2014 7:47:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Command: "What if someone makes an SBR and doesn't register it?" Me: "We will fire him for a policy violation and IA/DA can decide whether or not to charge him. We will subsequently report the offense to ATF." Command: "Oh, ok." Personally I'm not a big fan of any 5.56 shorter than 14". The round loses alot of its terminal performance and there are already enough officers with hearing damage as it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anybody's agency have an issue with guys carrying personally owned NFA on patrol? WA finally legalized supressors a year or two ago and now SBR's are golden. Just interested in the usual arguments against so I can head them off if admin freaks out. Command: "What if someone makes an SBR and doesn't register it?" Me: "We will fire him for a policy violation and IA/DA can decide whether or not to charge him. We will subsequently report the offense to ATF." Command: "Oh, ok." Personally I'm not a big fan of any 5.56 shorter than 14". The round loses alot of its terminal performance and there are already enough officers with hearing damage as it is. Hitting a 12x12 plate at 400 yds with a 12.7", with a Tula and a Ti QD can. 
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Posted: 6/14/2014 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hitting a 12x12 plate at 400 yds with a 12.7", with a Tula and a Ti QD can. Terminal performance, not external performance. 
My admin allows SBRs but not cans. 
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Posted: 6/15/2014 11:10:52 PM EDT
[#29]
Statistically we will not be engaging targets at great distances anyway. Not saying it will not happen, and to not train up for when it does...Besides I know that my dept will not allow magnified glass. "milspec non magnified aiming devices only."
Long in short, (no pun intended) having something easier to maneuver outweighs the ballistic change at such a distance... This from patrol experience. Having to deploy a 16 inch carbine is difficult to do even when you have done it 100 times in practice. My dang toughbook gets in the way of EVERYTHING not just my rifle. |
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Posted: 6/24/2014 7:24:25 PM EDT
[#30]
All of our patrol cars our equipped with SBR H&K G36's (10.5 or 11.5....I can't remember). I work in New Yorkistan, so there is no chance of anyone getting a suppressor for a rifle anyways, but if you could our Dept. would not authorize it. Fortunately for me I am issued an H&K MP5SD for SWAT, so I just take that on patrol with me. We have suppressors on some of our .308 sniper rifles and we have been looking into suppressors for the SWAT guys who carry G36's, which I really hope happens. Even with ear pro, being next to a guy in the shoot house who is engaging a target with a G36 right next to my head is deafening. When the big one goes down and we have officers shooting SBR G36's inside of a school classroom I'm pretty sure everyone's ears will be bleeding at the end of the day.
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Posted: 6/25/2014 12:27:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of our patrol cars our equipped with SBR H&K G36's (10.5 or 11.5....I can't remember). I work in New Yorkistan, so there is no chance of anyone getting a suppressor for a rifle anyways, but if you could our Dept. would not authorize it. Fortunately for me I am issued an H&K MP5SD for SWAT, so I just take that on patrol with me. We have suppressors on some of our .308 sniper rifles and we have been looking into suppressors for the SWAT guys who carry G36's, which I really hope happens. Even with ear pro, being next to a guy in the shoot house who is engaging a target with a G36 right next to my head is deafening. When the big one goes down and we have officers shooting SBR G36's inside of a school classroom I'm pretty sure everyone's ears will be bleeding at the end of the day. Actually your ears shouldn't even ring in a OIS. Had an AR go off with the barrel a few feet from the side of my head in an outdoor hallway/chokepoint (no roof but enclosed on both sides). I felt it more then heard it. My ears didn't ring or anything though. The shots were more like low pops. |
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Posted: 6/25/2014 6:36:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually your ears shouldn't even ring in a OIS. Had an AR go off with the barrel a few feet from the side of my head in an outdoor hallway/chokepoint (no roof but enclosed on both sides). I felt it more then heard it. My ears didn't ring or anything though. The shots were more like low pops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All of our patrol cars our equipped with SBR H&K G36's (10.5 or 11.5....I can't remember). I work in New Yorkistan, so there is no chance of anyone getting a suppressor for a rifle anyways, but if you could our Dept. would not authorize it. Fortunately for me I am issued an H&K MP5SD for SWAT, so I just take that on patrol with me. We have suppressors on some of our .308 sniper rifles and we have been looking into suppressors for the SWAT guys who carry G36's, which I really hope happens. Even with ear pro, being next to a guy in the shoot house who is engaging a target with a G36 right next to my head is deafening. When the big one goes down and we have officers shooting SBR G36's inside of a school classroom I'm pretty sure everyone's ears will be bleeding at the end of the day. Actually your ears shouldn't even ring in a OIS. Had an AR go off with the barrel a few feet from the side of my head in an outdoor hallway/chokepoint (no roof but enclosed on both sides). I felt it more then heard it. My ears didn't ring or anything though. The shots were more like low pops. Regardless of auditory exclusion it still causes hearing damage. |
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Posted: 6/25/2014 8:01:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually your ears shouldn't even ring in a OIS. Had an AR go off with the barrel a few feet from the side of my head in an outdoor hallway/chokepoint (no roof but enclosed on both sides). I felt it more then heard it. My ears didn't ring or anything though. The shots were more like low pops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All of our patrol cars our equipped with SBR H&K G36's (10.5 or 11.5....I can't remember). I work in New Yorkistan, so there is no chance of anyone getting a suppressor for a rifle anyways, but if you could our Dept. would not authorize it. Fortunately for me I am issued an H&K MP5SD for SWAT, so I just take that on patrol with me. We have suppressors on some of our .308 sniper rifles and we have been looking into suppressors for the SWAT guys who carry G36's, which I really hope happens. Even with ear pro, being next to a guy in the shoot house who is engaging a target with a G36 right next to my head is deafening. When the big one goes down and we have officers shooting SBR G36's inside of a school classroom I'm pretty sure everyone's ears will be bleeding at the end of the day. Actually your ears shouldn't even ring in a OIS. Had an AR go off with the barrel a few feet from the side of my head in an outdoor hallway/chokepoint (no roof but enclosed on both sides). I felt it more then heard it. My ears didn't ring or anything though. The shots were more like low pops. We were training last month and it was a really hot day out. So hot that my ears were sweating and one of my foam ear plugs came out as soon as I entered the room and the number 3 man came in behind me and let a shot go right next to my ear. The concussion actually moved my head and my unprotected ear was screaming!!!!!! I'm aware of auditory exclusion, but it did not seem to be the case on this day. |
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Posted: 6/28/2014 11:49:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This probably has more to do with going from a 1x7 twist to a 1x9. Still shouldn't be keyholing with 55 grn ammo. Barrel length has nothing to do with this. Are these factory built uppers or did your "armorer" (I will talk shit, I got the certificate saying that I am a "certified" Ruger SSR armorer) put these together? It sounds like there are bigger issues with your weapons. Rob ETA: OP I am running a DD 11.5 on top of a DRMO M16A1 at work. No can. If you are the shooter you won't even notice the shot, but you will if you are next to him .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We have gone to RRA 14.5 inch barrel AR-15 from our Colt 16" barrel saved me 1.5 inches and can't use 55 gr bullets as we have all had problems with the rounds keying so in the long run saved 1.5 inches to end up with having ammo problems. To me not really worth the 1.5 inches but it was some guy who gets payed $100K+ who knows nothing about shooting that made this pick! What does the three time combat Marine know? To them I don't know what side the bullet comes out of the rifle! SBR and a can I don't know to many patrol unites that allow the everyday officer carry a can on there patrol weapon! Might get SBR but only people I see with the can are SRT, SWAT or other special units! This probably has more to do with going from a 1x7 twist to a 1x9. Still shouldn't be keyholing with 55 grn ammo. Barrel length has nothing to do with this. Are these factory built uppers or did your "armorer" (I will talk shit, I got the certificate saying that I am a "certified" Ruger SSR armorer) put these together? It sounds like there are bigger issues with your weapons. Rob ETA: OP I am running a DD 11.5 on top of a DRMO M16A1 at work. No can. If you are the shooter you won't even notice the shot, but you will if you are next to him .Barrel length can actually affect stability, but not in the way most people think. For example, if you have two identical barrels with the same twist, say 1:9, but one is 16" and one is 12", and you lost about 200fps with the 12" using the same ammo, the 12" will not stabilize the bullet as well. It has to do with rotational velocity. If a given round is going 2800fps from the 16" 1:9 barrel it will be spinning at 224,000 RPM. Exiting the 12" at 2600fps will only give a rotational velocity of 208,000 RPM. Using the same velocity only with a 1:7 barrel the 16" gives a rotational velocity of 288,000 RPM and the 12" gives 267,428 RPM. Usually barrel length will only affect stability if a projectile is right on the edge of being stable in the longer barrel. It definitely should not be the case with any 55gr bullets. As for velocity, quality ammunition will work well above 2000fps. Even with slower rounds that still gives you well over 100 yards of effective terminal performance. Given the nature of most police shootings (even sniper shots at 100 yards are rare) I believe the benefits of the SBR outweigh the drawbacks. |
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