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Posted: 5/16/2012 2:46:30 AM
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Originally Posted By Hero:
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Pancakeofdoom, it's not out of date. I explained it as best I can without people actually working in the system. (even then it still gets confusing) Yes I am DOJ. Most DOJ jobs are on the LE retirement scale (ie GL) some are not thos would be the GS rate (think office type annalists etc) As far as other agencies The Sercret Service, Capital Police and a few others are on a LE retirement scale but a different pay band (YA or whatever initials they are) If you have to have 25 years in and 57 you are in a non LE retirement scale. A regular GS retirement there is no mandatory retirement age (you could work til age 75 if you wanted)However be warned in a regular GS retirement for every year under age 62 you retire you give up 5% of your retirement ie 57 = 5 years so that = 25% off your retirement. On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48) or you are eligible at age 50 with 20 years of service. Under the LE scale you are "mandatoried" at age 57. You turn 57 on say July 1st you can work till July 31st and are then walked out. what I explained is under the FERS retirement which has been around since 1984-5ish. prior to that was CSRS. There are a few old timers under the CSRS but that is a whole different but better retirement. From FBI's FAQs: Special Agent trainees at the FBI Academy are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus the Quantico, VA locality adjustment (17.50%) during their time at the FBI Academy. This equates to $51,043 on an annualized basis (or $1,963 per each two-week pay period). Newly assigned Special Agents are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus locality pay and availability pay. Locality pay (which ranges from 12.5% to 28.7% of base salary depending upon office assignment) is additional compensation to account for differences in the labor market between different areas. Availability pay is a 25% increase in adjusted salary (base salary + locality pay) for all Special Agents due to their requirement to average a 50-hour work week over the course of the year. Thus, with the locality and availability pay adjustments, new Special Agents in their first Field Offices earn between $61,100 and $69,900, depending upon the region of the country to which they are assigned. From DEA's FAQs: Q: What is the starting salary and grade for Special Agents? A: DEA Special Agents are generally hired at the GS-7 or GS-9 level, depending on education and experience. The salary includes federal Law Enforcement Officer base pay plus a locality payment, depending on your duty station. Upon successful graduation from the DEA Training Academy 25% Availability Pay will be added to your base and locality pay. After graduation, the starting salaries are approximately $49,746 for a GS-7, and $55,483 for a GS-9. After four years of service Special Agents are eligible to progress to the GS-13 level and can earn approximately $92,592 or more per year." If agents are paid on the GS scale, how does that reconcile with what you've posted? Some descriptions are still refering them to the GS scale. (a lot of those FAQ's are also years old and they keep them because they are like it says FAQ. They just haven't updated the answer to reflect the GL rate/wording) It's just a matter of we called ourselves GS for so many years we still sometimes refer to ourselves as GS whatever. If you look at most usajobs.gov announcements with DOJ the paygrade will usually be listed GL. If they are not then the admin person putting together the job announcement went on years of past practice in refering/listing it as a GS position as listed above. I'm a GS FLEO and I have coverage that allows me to retire with 20 years |
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Hero
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Posted: 5/16/2012 6:08:53 AM
[Last Edit: 5/16/2012 6:10:07 AM by Hero]
Originally Posted By Primos:
Originally Posted By Hero:
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Pancakeofdoom, it's not out of date. I explained it as best I can without people actually working in the system. (even then it still gets confusing) Yes I am DOJ. Most DOJ jobs are on the LE retirement scale (ie GL) some are not thos would be the GS rate (think office type annalists etc) As far as other agencies The Sercret Service, Capital Police and a few others are on a LE retirement scale but a different pay band (YA or whatever initials they are) If you have to have 25 years in and 57 you are in a non LE retirement scale. A regular GS retirement there is no mandatory retirement age (you could work til age 75 if you wanted)However be warned in a regular GS retirement for every year under age 62 you retire you give up 5% of your retirement ie 57 = 5 years so that = 25% off your retirement. On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48) or you are eligible at age 50 with 20 years of service. Under the LE scale you are "mandatoried" at age 57. You turn 57 on say July 1st you can work till July 31st and are then walked out. what I explained is under the FERS retirement which has been around since 1984-5ish. prior to that was CSRS. There are a few old timers under the CSRS but that is a whole different but better retirement. From FBI's FAQs: Special Agent trainees at the FBI Academy are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus the Quantico, VA locality adjustment (17.50%) during their time at the FBI Academy. This equates to $51,043 on an annualized basis (or $1,963 per each two-week pay period). Newly assigned Special Agents are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus locality pay and availability pay. Locality pay (which ranges from 12.5% to 28.7% of base salary depending upon office assignment) is additional compensation to account for differences in the labor market between different areas. Availability pay is a 25% increase in adjusted salary (base salary + locality pay) for all Special Agents due to their requirement to average a 50-hour work week over the course of the year. Thus, with the locality and availability pay adjustments, new Special Agents in their first Field Offices earn between $61,100 and $69,900, depending upon the region of the country to which they are assigned. From DEA's FAQs: Q: What is the starting salary and grade for Special Agents? A: DEA Special Agents are generally hired at the GS-7 or GS-9 level, depending on education and experience. The salary includes federal Law Enforcement Officer base pay plus a locality payment, depending on your duty station. Upon successful graduation from the DEA Training Academy 25% Availability Pay will be added to your base and locality pay. After graduation, the starting salaries are approximately $49,746 for a GS-7, and $55,483 for a GS-9. After four years of service Special Agents are eligible to progress to the GS-13 level and can earn approximately $92,592 or more per year." If agents are paid on the GS scale, how does that reconcile with what you've posted? FBI GS-10 in the low $40's, but a DEA GS-7 in the high 40's? I don't follow. From the FBI section it states that starting is GS-10 at 43,443 plus locality pay (varies 12.5 to 28.7 percent) plus availability pay (25%). That amounts to between 59,731 to 66,768 for a GS-10 right out of the Academy. From the DEA section it states that the starting is GS-7 at 49,746 after graduation from the Academy and after the availability pay and locality pay are added on. So, that's around a 10,000 to 16,000 difference between the two starting off. |
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Posted: 5/16/2012 4:45:15 PM
Originally Posted By RockSix:
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Originally Posted By Hero:
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Pancakeofdoom, it's not out of date. I explained it as best I can without people actually working in the system. (even then it still gets confusing) Yes I am DOJ. Most DOJ jobs are on the LE retirement scale (ie GL) some are not thos would be the GS rate (think office type annalists etc) As far as other agencies The Sercret Service, Capital Police and a few others are on a LE retirement scale but a different pay band (YA or whatever initials they are) If you have to have 25 years in and 57 you are in a non LE retirement scale. A regular GS retirement there is no mandatory retirement age (you could work til age 75 if you wanted)However be warned in a regular GS retirement for every year under age 62 you retire you give up 5% of your retirement ie 57 = 5 years so that = 25% off your retirement. On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48) or you are eligible at age 50 with 20 years of service. Under the LE scale you are "mandatoried" at age 57. You turn 57 on say July 1st you can work till July 31st and are then walked out. what I explained is under the FERS retirement which has been around since 1984-5ish. prior to that was CSRS. There are a few old timers under the CSRS but that is a whole different but better retirement. From FBI's FAQs: Special Agent trainees at the FBI Academy are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus the Quantico, VA locality adjustment (17.50%) during their time at the FBI Academy. This equates to $51,043 on an annualized basis (or $1,963 per each two-week pay period). Newly assigned Special Agents are paid as GS-10, step 1 ($43,441) plus locality pay and availability pay. Locality pay (which ranges from 12.5% to 28.7% of base salary depending upon office assignment) is additional compensation to account for differences in the labor market between different areas. Availability pay is a 25% increase in adjusted salary (base salary + locality pay) for all Special Agents due to their requirement to average a 50-hour work week over the course of the year. Thus, with the locality and availability pay adjustments, new Special Agents in their first Field Offices earn between $61,100 and $69,900, depending upon the region of the country to which they are assigned. From DEA's FAQs: Q: What is the starting salary and grade for Special Agents? A: DEA Special Agents are generally hired at the GS-7 or GS-9 level, depending on education and experience. The salary includes federal Law Enforcement Officer base pay plus a locality payment, depending on your duty station. Upon successful graduation from the DEA Training Academy 25% Availability Pay will be added to your base and locality pay. After graduation, the starting salaries are approximately $49,746 for a GS-7, and $55,483 for a GS-9. After four years of service Special Agents are eligible to progress to the GS-13 level and can earn approximately $92,592 or more per year." If agents are paid on the GS scale, how does that reconcile with what you've posted? Some descriptions are still refering them to the GS scale. (a lot of those FAQ's are also years old and they keep them because they are like it says FAQ. They just haven't updated the answer to reflect the GL rate/wording) It's just a matter of we called ourselves GS for so many years we still sometimes refer to ourselves as GS whatever. If you look at most usajobs.gov announcements with DOJ the paygrade will usually be listed GL. If they are not then the admin person putting together the job announcement went on years of past practice in refering/listing it as a GS position as listed above. I'm a GS FLEO and I have coverage that allows me to retire with 20 years What agency/job description do you have? PM me if you don't want to air it here. If your on the GS scale and have a 20 year retirement you either hired in after a military retirement, reverted to the GL or are in an agency that might fall somewhere in between. |
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PancakeOfDoom
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Posted: 5/16/2012 8:30:18 PM
they should get one of you guys to fly into fletc for every GS series class and explain this shit, cuz the .gov online sure as hell sucks
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kc-coyote
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Posted: 5/18/2012 7:50:26 AM
[Last Edit: 5/18/2012 4:52:50 PM by kc-coyote]
Here is some more to add to to the mix. I think folks are getting a bit confused with the GL vs. GS pay scale. I believe in625shooter works for the federal Bureau of Prisons (BoP) that has a workforce with most non supervisory employees working at or below a '10' level, which might not give him exposure to other agencies pay scales outside of the "10" range (not knocking, just speculating in a friendly way). The GL pay scale only covers GL 3-10, after that you go right back to the regular GS pay scale. There are a ton of federal agents (1811 series Special Agents for those outside of the gov) with FBI, Secret Service, ICE/HSI, ATF, USMS, and the various other agencies such as OIG's who are 6c (federal LE retirement) covered that are paid on the GS scale. Most entry level job announcements you see on usajobs for 1811 jobs for example are going to be at the 10 level or below, hence you may see a "GL" pay level, although you may see it posted at the "GS" level. Look for 'lateral' 1811 listings on usajobs (i.e. basically are for current 1811's looking to change agencies) at the 13-15 level and they will ALL be listed as GS 13, 14 or 15. Your SF50 will say GS 1811 (mine does and I'm not prior military, prior GL or in an agency that falls "somewhere in between"). All have the same 6c federal LE retirement and LEAP pay (25% additional of the listed pay for that grade/step) that the lower paid GL/GS folks withsame job title/series make in that agency. Also in case you are wondering LEAP is for 1811's. Some other federal LEO's get AUO or OT and that depends on the specific agency and for some down to the specific position. In ICE for example, Deportation Officers get AUO, but Special Agents get LEAP. Just more info for folks outside the gov to ponder....
Originally Posted By in625shooter:
Originally Posted By tothemax:
I have a question. I remember reading a memo while in nevada regarding the allowance of federal employees (non leo's) to carry while at work. It mentioned something about taking a class and then qualifying on the range. Does anyone have any info on this? thanks for your time This question has a couple outcomes. First I work for the FED's so I might know just a lttle bit on this. As far as Federal LE that title can be misleading. Let me TRY to explain. (only the GOV could make it this hard) There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. 1. GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. 2. GL scale pays a little more than GS. GL scale covers traditional LE type jobs. US Marshal's, FBI, most Bureau of Prisons etc. There use to be a regular GS scale and a GS LE scale. Someone decided about 6 years ago to keep it straight that all the LE retirement jobs would be redesignated GL to reflect the LE scale. GL has a little better retirement than a GS scale. . GL cut off of age 37 and mandatory retirement by age 57 1.7% per year of service for the first 20 years and 1 % per year after 20.. On GL you can retire at age 50 with 20 years or under age 50 with 25 years. (if you hire in at 30 and retire at 50 with 20 years you go out with 34% in the GL) 3. WS on the regular GS retirement scale or WS on the GL retirement scale. example of WS on the LE scale is Bureau of Prisons maintenance type, Factory supervisors, Food Service etc falls in this. The Secret Service and FED Air Marshal fall on something else that I don't even remember the initials) Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. Examples of jobs on the regular GS plan are the Veterans Affairs Police, DOD Police etc. Also some employee's of DOD that are Non LEO's carry firearms on a daily basis on Federal property for security/resource protection. Example of that would be in the Air Force they have some civillian Combat Arms instructors (CATM) which are basically firearms instructors. civilian CATM instructors carry firearms when on the range instructing or transporting firearms both on base and to off base ranges. Like I said only the GOV could cause this much confusion on it, I've worked for them for 25 years and am still confused everyday! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Dusteater1
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Posted: 5/18/2012 10:29:57 AM
Now I'm confused.
I'm a GS 1811. I get paid LEAP. 1811's can retire at 20 years.... I had to come in by 37, I have to retire by 57. I can retire at 50 with no penalty, but I don't accrue the additional years. Not sure what GL is. In regard to Federal Court, it's depended on the Marshall's and/or the Magistrate for me...I've seen it go both ways. In regard to the original question, I would think it would have to be some sort of special circumstance for any memo of that type to apply. As a general rule non LE carrying on Fed Land is a no no. |
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ToyCop
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Posted: 5/18/2012 6:56:16 PM
Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Here is some more to add to to the mix. I think folks are getting a bit confused with the GL vs. GS pay scale. I believe in625shooter works for the federal Bureau of Prisons (BoP) that has a workforce with most non supervisory employees working at or below a '10' level, which might not give him exposure to other agencies pay scales outside of the "10" range (not knocking, just speculating in a friendly way). The GL pay scale only covers GL 3-10, after that you go right back to the regular GS pay scale. There are a ton of federal agents (1811 series Special Agents for those outside of the gov) with FBI, Secret Service, ICE/HSI, ATF, USMS, and the various other agencies such as OIG's who are 6c (federal LE retirement) covered that are paid on the GS scale. Most entry level job announcements you see on usajobs for 1811 jobs for example are going to be at the 10 level or below, hence you may see a "GL" pay level, although you may see it posted at the "GS" level. Look for 'lateral' 1811 listings on usajobs (i.e. basically are for current 1811's looking to change agencies) at the 13-15 level and they will ALL be listed as GS 13, 14 or 15. Your SF50 will say GS 1811 (mine does and I'm not prior military, prior GL or in an agency that falls "somewhere in between"). All have the same 6c federal LE retirement and LEAP pay (25% additional of the listed pay for that grade/step) that the lower paid GL/GS folks withsame job title/series make in that agency. Also in case you are wondering LEAP is for 1811's. Some other federal LEO's get AUO or OT and that depends on the specific agency and for some down to the specific position. In ICE for example, Deportation Officers get AUO, but Special Agents get LEAP. Just more info for folks outside the gov to ponder.... Let me confuse everyone further. FAMs are SV 1801 series and are paid based on a pay banding system and get LEAP. We have the same 6c retirement as 1811s, however, those of us that hired on in the beginning can stay until we are 60. This is because the max entry age during the initial push was waived up to 40. Even if you were under the normal 37 cutoff at that time you can stay on. I could stay until 60, but that isn't going to happen. CBP also has their own version of 6c now. |
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Posted: 5/20/2012 12:26:01 PM
KC-coyote is on point with this.
In625shooter is giving out information that is partially correct, or only applies under certain circumstances and making is seem like it applies to all and government wide. This is VERY WRONG AND MISLEADING! While he/she may be a federal employee in DOJ for 25 years, they obviously do not know the system. I too am a FED, a 1811 and a GS 14. I understand it. Lets clarify the statements that are false: There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. (WRONG….there are more: GS-GL-EX-SES-SL-ST-AL-ALJ-FWS-a bunch under the foreign service and some under pay banding (like the FAMS)
GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. (Not accurate at all. Any 1811 LEO who is a GS-11 or higher has an age restriction and is entitled to a higher retirement rate and lower age. )
GL scale covers traditional LE type jobs. US Marshal's, FBI, most Bureau of Prisons etc. (Not true…only some)
GL has a little better retirement than a GS scale. (Not true…it is the same for some LEOS under a GS scale)
Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. (WRONG- many 1811’s out there, including most OIG’s, FBI, USSS, DEA, ATF, ICE, USMS, etc… are all GS and get the enhanced LE retirement)
On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48)- (NOT TRUE FOR ALL……ONLY CSERS [those hired before 1/1/1987] ……anyone hired as a FERS Employee, aka on or after 1/1/1987, you must be at least 50 to retire as defined in 5 USC 8412d)[/*]The fed has NUMEROUS pay systems for LEO employees which typically cover GS-GL-SES –foreign officer pay categories and pay banding (FAMS). ALL GET THE ENHANCED RETIREMENT. Foreign service is Department of State thing and I won't go there. FAMS are pay banding so I won't go there. I am sticking with the topic of GS vs, GL. To determine if a position is GS or GL, it is really simple: GS - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system established under the Classification Act of 1949, as amended. (5 U.S.C. chapter 53, subchapter III, and 5 CFR part 531)
GL - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system (1) who are law enforcement officers (LEOs) and (2) who receive special base at grades 3-10 under section 403 of the Federal Employees Pay Comparability Act of 1990 (FEPCA). GL is NOT the only scale with LEO age restrictions and retirement. Any implication of such is 100% FALSE. A GL pay scale is someone between GS-3 and GS-10, doing LEO duties who gets certain pay as defined in section 403 of the FEPC. There are many more on the GS and SES scale with guns, badges, full LEO benefits and retirement. Be wary of those who paint with a broad brush, they usually miss the fine details. |
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Hero
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Posted: 5/20/2012 4:05:42 PM
Thank you to both joeyd6 and kc-coyote for your clarifying posts.
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Posted: 5/21/2012 12:09:09 AM
Originally Posted By joeyd6:
KC-coyote is on point with this. In625shooter is giving out information that is partially correct, or only applies under certain circumstances and making is seem like it applies to all and government wide. This is VERY WRONG AND MISLEADING! While he/she may be a federal employee in DOJ for 25 years, they obviously do not know the system. I too am a FED, a 1811 and a GS 14. I understand it. Lets clarify the statements that are false: Joyd6, I am not trying to mislead anyone here. I never claimed what I said was set in stone but merley a generalzation on how most not all of the areas are covered.I also stated that there are some things that still confuse some of us and we even work in the system. Let me clarify There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. (WRONG….there are more: GS-GL-EX-SES-SL-ST-AL-ALJ-FWS-a bunch under the foreign service and some under pay banding (like the FAMS)
I stated FAM's and others have a diferent pay band! GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. (Not accurate at all. Any 1811 LEO who is a GS-11 or higher has an age restriction and is entitled to a higher retirement rate and lower age. )
I beleive I stated I was not refering to a LE retirement scale on this. I was stating a regular GS scale as in say mechanice/administration jos (not my exact example but you get it) does not have a maximum but does get a penalty for punching out early. Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. (WRONG- many 1811’s out there, including most OIG’s, FBI, USSS, DEA, ATF, ICE, USMS, etc… are all GS and get the enhanced LE retirement)
Again I refered to the VA police which make arrests and carry firearms but are on the regular GS scale with no "special LE pay" On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48)- (NOT TRUE FOR ALL……ONLY CSERS [those hired before 1/1/1987] ……anyone hired as a FERS Employee, aka on or after 1/1/1987, you must be at least 50 to retire as defined in 5 USC 8412d)[/*]I believe I pointed out the 20 at 50 FERS rule. GL is NOT the only scale with LEO age restrictions and retirement. Any implication of such is 100% FALSE. A GL pay scale is someone between GS-3 and GS-10, doing LEO duties who gets certain pay as defined in section 403 of the FEPC. There are many more on the GS and SES scale with guns, badges, full LEO benefits and retirement. Be wary of those who paint with a broad brush, they usually miss the fine details. I did not mean to imply there is only GL and GS. There are several variances on who what and where certian folks are covered. |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 10:37:41 AM
Originally Posted By joeyd6:
KC-coyote is on point with this. In625shooter is giving out information that is partially correct, or only applies under certain circumstances and making is seem like it applies to all and government wide. This is VERY WRONG AND MISLEADING! While he/she may be a federal employee in DOJ for 25 years, they obviously do not know the system. I too am a FED, a 1811 and a GS 14. I understand it. Lets clarify the statements that are false: There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. (WRONG….there are more: GS-GL-EX-SES-SL-ST-AL-ALJ-FWS-a bunch under the foreign service and some under pay banding (like the FAMS)
GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. (Not accurate at all. Any 1811 LEO who is a GS-11 or higher has an age restriction and is entitled to a higher retirement rate and lower age. )
GL scale covers traditional LE type jobs. US Marshal's, FBI, most Bureau of Prisons etc. (Not true…only some)
GL has a little better retirement than a GS scale. (Not true…it is the same for some LEOS under a GS scale)
Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. (WRONG- many 1811’s out there, including most OIG’s, FBI, USSS, DEA, ATF, ICE, USMS, etc… are all GS and get the enhanced LE retirement)
On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48)- (NOT TRUE FOR ALL……ONLY CSERS [those hired before 1/1/1987] ……anyone hired as a FERS Employee, aka on or after 1/1/1987, you must be at least 50 to retire as defined in 5 USC 8412d)[/*]The fed has NUMEROUS pay systems for LEO employees which typically cover GS-GL-SES –foreign officer pay categories and pay banding (FAMS). ALL GET THE ENHANCED RETIREMENT. Foreign service is Department of State thing and I won't go there. FAMS are pay banding so I won't go there. I am sticking with the topic of GS vs, GL. To determine if a position is GS or GL, it is really simple: GS - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system established under the Classification Act of 1949, as amended. (5 U.S.C. chapter 53, subchapter III, and 5 CFR part 531)
GL - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system (1) who are law enforcement officers (LEOs) and (2) who receive special base at grades 3-10 under section 403 of the Federal Employees Pay Comparability Act of 1990 (FEPCA). GL is NOT the only scale with LEO age restrictions and retirement. Any implication of such is 100% FALSE. A GL pay scale is someone between GS-3 and GS-10, doing LEO duties who gets certain pay as defined in section 403 of the FEPC. There are many more on the GS and SES scale with guns, badges, full LEO benefits and retirement. Be wary of those who paint with a broad brush, they usually miss the fine details. Are you sure about having to be 50 under FERS. I seemed to recall being told in in my last retirement class that 25 years at any age was 6c eligable for retirement. Of course, it didn't apply to me, so I may have dosed off.  |
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ToyCop
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Posted: 5/31/2012 6:03:47 PM
Originally Posted By Group9: Originally Posted By joeyd6: KC-coyote is on point with this. In625shooter is giving out information that is partially correct, or only applies under certain circumstances and making is seem like it applies to all and government wide. This is VERY WRONG AND MISLEADING! While he/she may be a federal employee in DOJ for 25 years, they obviously do not know the system. I too am a FED, a 1811 and a GS 14. I understand it. Lets clarify the statements that are false: There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. (WRONG….there are more: GS-GL-EX-SES-SL-ST-AL-ALJ-FWS-a bunch under the foreign service and some under pay banding (like the FAMS)GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. (Not accurate at all. Any 1811 LEO who is a GS-11 or higher has an age restriction and is entitled to a higher retirement rate and lower age. )GL scale covers traditional LE type jobs. US Marshal's, FBI, most Bureau of Prisons etc. (Not true…only some)GL has a little better retirement than a GS scale. (Not true…it is the same for some LEOS under a GS scale)Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. (WRONG- many 1811’s out there, including most OIG’s, FBI, USSS, DEA, ATF, ICE, USMS, etc… are all GS and get the enhanced LE retirement)On the LE scale you can retire at any age (without penalty) with 25 years of service (come in at 23 eleigible at age 48)- (NOT TRUE FOR ALL……ONLY CSERS [those hired before 1/1/1987] ……anyone hired as a FERS Employee, aka on or after 1/1/1987, you must be at least 50 to retire as defined in 5 USC 8412d)[/*]The fed has NUMEROUS pay systems for LEO employees which typically cover GS-GL-SES –foreign officer pay categories and pay banding (FAMS). ALL GET THE ENHANCED RETIREMENT. Foreign service is Department of State thing and I won't go there. FAMS are pay banding so I won't go there. I am sticking with the topic of GS vs, GL. To determine if a position is GS or GL, it is really simple: GS - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system established under the Classification Act of 1949, as amended. (5 U.S.C. chapter 53, subchapter III, and 5 CFR part 531) GL - Employees covered by the General Schedule classification and pay system (1) who are law enforcement officers (LEOs) and (2) who receive special base at grades 3-10 under section 403 of the Federal Employees Pay Comparability Act of 1990 (FEPCA). GL is NOT the only scale with LEO age restrictions and retirement. Any implication of such is 100% FALSE. A GL pay scale is someone between GS-3 and GS-10, doing LEO duties who gets certain pay as defined in section 403 of the FEPC. There are many more on the GS and SES scale with guns, badges, full LEO benefits and retirement. Be wary of those who paint with a broad brush, they usually miss the fine details. Are you sure about having to be 50 under FERS. I seemed to recall being told in in my last retirement class that 25 years at any age was 6c eligable for retirement. Of course, it didn't apply to me, so I may have dosed off. Correct. 25 years at any age and you can retire. 20 years and have to be 50. Mandatory out at 57, except with rare waiver. |
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PancakeOfDoom
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Joined: Dec 2009 AZ, USA
Posts: 368 Feedback: 100% (3) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/31/2012 8:12:14 PM
believe it or not, this clarified quite a bit about retirement for me finally. thanks all. just 24.5 more years i guess
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Hero
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Joined: Mar 2003 FL, USA
Posts: 20550 Feedback: 100% (133) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/31/2012 8:16:33 PM
Originally Posted By PancakeOfDoom:
believe it or not, this clarified quite a bit about retirement for me finally. thanks all. just 24.5 more years i guess +1 very good thread. I think we've got about the same amount of time to go...  |
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Rincon_11
Unlicensed chilli chemist
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Joined: Jun 2003 USA
Posts: 4587 Feedback: 100% (4) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/15/2012 4:34:55 AM
Originally Posted By in625shooter: Originally Posted By tothemax: I have a question. I remember reading a memo while in nevada regarding the allowance of federal employees (non leo's) to carry while at work. It mentioned something about taking a class and then qualifying on the range. Does anyone have any info on this? thanks for your time This question has a couple outcomes. First I work for the FED's so I might know just a lttle bit on this. As far as Federal LE that title can be misleading. Let me TRY to explain. (only the GOV could make it this hard) There are 3 main payscales in the GOV. 1. GS scale (normal civil service jobs) the GS scale is a normal GOV retirement. GS no age cut off and you work til min age 62 with 1% a year at age 62. If you work 30 years you go out with 30%. On GS you can retire before age 62 but you have an extreme penalty. 2. GL scale pays a little more than GS. GL scale covers traditional LE type jobs. US Marshal's, FBI, most Bureau of Prisons etc. There use to be a regular GS scale and a GS LE scale. Someone decided about 6 years ago to keep it straight that all the LE retirement jobs would be redesignated GL to reflect the LE scale. GL has a little better retirement than a GS scale. . GL cut off of age 37 and mandatory retirement by age 57 1.7% per year of service for the first 20 years and 1 % per year after 20.. On GL you can retire at age 50 with 20 years or under age 50 with 25 years. (if you hire in at 30 and retire at 50 with 20 years you go out with 34% in the GL) 3. WS on the regular GS retirement scale or WS on the GL retirement scale. example of WS on the LE scale is Bureau of Prisons maintenance type, Factory supervisors, Food Service etc falls in this. The Secret Service and FED Air Marshal fall on something else that I don't even remember the initials) Some GOV LE jobs are not on the GL scale which means the employees carry firearms, make arrests but do not get the enhanced LE pay and retirement of the GL plan. Examples of jobs on the regular GS plan are the Veterans Affairs Police, DOD Police etc. Also some employee's of DOD that are Non LEO's carry firearms on a daily basis on Federal property for security/resource protection. Example of that would be in the Air Force they have some civillian Combat Arms instructors (CATM) which are basically firearms instructors. civilian CATM instructors carry firearms when on the range instructing or transporting firearms both on base and to off base ranges. Like I said only the GOV could cause this much confusion on it, I've worked for them for 25 years and am still confused everyday! Not really. There are a lot of GS Fed LEO jobs out there. They have forced retirement and can retire at 20 years without penalty, although it would be a pretty crappy pension. |
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