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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 10/25/2001 5:54:47 AM EDT
Okay, I'm going to try this again, since my "concealed carry configuration" post was such a bomb. I'm looking for viewpoints about loading a carry gun. Specifically, for a semiauto, carry with a round in the chamber, or not? Why or why not? Do so only in a double action gun? How to load for carry in a single action only gun? Come on, folks. This Women's Forum doesn't seem to be working very well...
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 8:38:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2001 1:47:23 PM EDT by Huskies4all]
It depends. Right now I'm carrying a Keltec p32 in my back pocket. No round in the chamber because it has no safy...double action only. When I have one with a safety, Most definitely I have a round chambered. Edited 'cause what I had before sounded rude. Sorry, it's been a really pissy week.
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 8:55:47 AM EDT
I carry my Glock with one in the tube, ready to go, but this is inherently safe in a Glock......dunno about other makes. I hate safeties.
Link Posted: 10/25/2001 3:21:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 12:04:37 PM EDT
Baddog...the reason I didn't answer your first post is precisely the reasons that thebeekeeper1 spelled out. I don't know a lot about a lot of different kinds of guns, so I didn't think my input would be very helpful. I will say one thing....If you can't safely carry it fully loaded (and chambered), there's no point carrying it at all, as it won't be ready if you need it (unless you plan to pistol-whip your attacker). That's the best I can do for ya. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 2:31:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2001 2:26:40 PM EDT by baddog]
I'll try to be more specific. I can carry my Colt Government Pocketlite, single action only, with a round in the chamber and the safety on, but how safe is this(Beekeeper has spoken on this already)? The owner's manual says not to, but I need real life advice. I can carry a Walther PPK with a round in the chamber, safety on, and ready to fire DAO unless I cock the hammer for single action. Or I could buy one of these Kel-Tec 32s, which are very appealing because of weight, and carry with a round in the chamber, DAO and no safety, but how safe is this? I have a very wide variety of guns to choose from, but my priorities are light weight and safest carry configuration. And revolvers are too bulky. Any more thoughts?
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 7:46:01 PM EDT
i checked with the fiance on this as he's much more knowledgable in this area than i. first things first. what follows is a general guideline on carrying chambered. remember, GENERAL. there will always be exceptions (discussed later). 1. any revolver with a firing pin [i][b]on[/b][/i] the hammer, carry with the hammer down on an [b]empty[/b] chamber. a simple cocking of the hammer "loads" the next round and gun is ready to fire. 2. the above rule applies to semi's as well, carry unchambered if the firing pin is on the hammer. 3. as beekeeper said, most DAO semi's will be safe to carry chambered. but again, beware of the internal mechanism just to be sure. 4. if you can't utilize your weapon one-handed, i wouldn't recommend carrying it. meaning, if you can't carry with one in the chamber and/or load that first round without using two hands, find another gun. this will include all semi autos that require the slide to be racked if they shouldn't be carried "hot". revolvers, DAO like glocks that can be safely carried with a round in the chamber, and 1911-style .45s made to carry cocked-and-locked are good choices because they do not require two hands to "prime" them for battle. one caveat, if you can't pull the hammer back with one hand on a revolver, don't use that as a carry gun either! [:)] regarding the safety (the mechansim, not procedures) on weapons. a sticky subject since it depends on what function the safety "impedes." does it prevent the trigger from being pulled? (this won't do much to prevent an AD if the firing pin in on the hammer and gun is dropped or bumped really hard on the hammer.) does it prevent the hammer from falling on the firing pin [i]or[/i] prevent the firing pin from contacting the primer? unfortunately, baddog, i can't help with the specifics for the guns you mentioned because i won't carry anything with a caliber smaller than 9mm/.38 and therefore haven't had any experience with any smaller caliber guns. common sense says that if you're worried about carrying chambered, even with a safety on, don't do it. better to be safe than sorry. finally, (you're probably thinking "'bout time") regarding your statement of bulky revolvers. have you handled a taurus ultra-lite lately? i have a 2" snubby (if the bullet doesn't kill 'em, the muzzle flash will) that i carry in my purse 24/7. i prefer it [b]over[/b] the glock for CC in a purse because of the extreme light weight. neither is it bulky in the "too wide" sense. in fact, it's just as narrow (without the hoster) than my cell phone. additionally, the taurus (not sure if this is standard on all tauri or just the ultra-lite models, can't remember) has a transfer safety bar that prevents the hammering from stricking the firing pin. the hammer has to be cocked to make contact with the firing pin. a drop on the ground is not enough to cause an AD. oh, and beekeeper, i love writing "cocked and locked" too. there's a kimber custom CDP waiting for me in phoenix. i can't wait to get my grubby little hands on it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 6:34:21 PM EDT
AR Lady, thank you very much. All that was enormously helpful, and clarified for me some things I've been vague about with these handguns. I did look at the Taurus Ultralite Titanium revolver that weighs only 13 oz. unloaded, and it is appealing. I'm told these have quite a kick to them...my husband says I ought to try one before spending money. We'll see. For now I'll tote the Walther PPK, which can be single or double action and has manual and automatic safeties. I'd like it to be lighter, but now that I have read the manual with the insights you gave me, I can see it is extremely safe chambered.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:40:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By baddog: AR Lady, thank you very much. All that was enormously helpful, and clarified for me some things I've been vague about with these handguns. I did look at the Taurus Ultralite Titanium revolver that weighs only 13 oz. unloaded, and it is appealing. I'm told these have quite a kick to them...my husband says I ought to try one before spending money. We'll see. For now I'll tote the Walther PPK, which can be single or double action and has manual and automatic safeties. I'd like it to be lighter, but now that I have read the manual with the insights you gave me, I can see it is extremely safe chambered.
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glad to help. i just wish i could take credit for the answers. it was as much my education as yours. fiance is so much more knowledgable than i. the taurus does have somewhat of a kick, especially when compared to the smaller calibers i would think. but a lot of that depends on barrel length too. and i think there's a difference between recoil and kick. the former being the power with which the firearm is forced back into the hand (or shoulder for long gun). i would call kick the amount (for lack of a better word) the muzzle of the gun is moved from horizontal (or original starting position). there's a fair amount of kick in the taurus. but it's managable. practice is all it takes.
Link Posted: 10/29/2001 6:47:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ARlady: 1. any revolver with a firing pin [i][b]on[/b][/i] the hammer, carry with the hammer down on an [b]empty[/b] chamber. a simple cocking of the hammer "loads" the next round and gun is ready to fire. 2. the above rule applies to semi's as well, carry unchambered if the firing pin is on the hammer.
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I have seen lot's of revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer but I have never seen an auto. Do you or your significant other have an auto make/model you could give me as an example? I'm not being a wise guy I just want to learn. I really have never seen this so I'm curious... John
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 4:57:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Beagles747:
Originally Posted By ARlady: 1. any revolver with a firing pin [i][b]on[/b][/i] the hammer, carry with the hammer down on an [b]empty[/b] chamber. a simple cocking of the hammer "loads" the next round and gun is ready to fire. 2. the above rule applies to semi's as well, carry unchambered if the firing pin is on the hammer.
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I have seen lot's of revolvers with the firing pin on the hammer but I have never seen an auto. Do you or your significant other have an auto make/model you could give me as an example? I'm not being a wise guy I just want to learn. I really have never seen this so I'm curious... John
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no we don't have an example, but neither have we had much experience with smaller caliber guns. he told me [i]after[/i] i wrote the post that that point was a little silly since he couldn't think of any autos with the pin on the hammer. (gee thanks, make me look like the fool.) but the general idea was not to carry "hot" on weapon in which the pin is on the hammer. i didn't want to specifically mention revolvers and not autos and then have someone think that the logic doesn't apply to autos because i didn't specifically mention them. just covering the bases there! [:)]
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 5:16:26 PM EDT
ok, sure I hear ya. I didn't think there was but I learn something new everyday here so I figured I could be wrong. That was good to cover it like that, too. Take care, John
Link Posted: 10/30/2001 5:22:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 3:04:12 PM EDT
Thanks SGB, does that apply to all S&W revolvers, current and past? Or is there a particular model that it started with? I have a 37 airweight and a 66.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 5:23:37 PM EDT
well, i did say to make sure you knew the mechanism of the firearm, and that my "advice" was general only. [:D]
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 6:31:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 6:46:34 PM EDT
Are you carrying this gun for protection,if you are all the rounds it will hold.
Link Posted: 10/31/2001 7:37:49 PM EDT
Thanks again, SGB.That is very important information that you have provided.
Link Posted: 11/1/2001 3:46:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 10ring: Are you carrying this gun for protection,if you are all the rounds it will hold [red]safely[/red].
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that last word makes all the difference. wouldn't do any good to have all the rounds loaded if the risk of AD went up 10 fold because of it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 8:51:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/5/2001 9:53:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2001 9:48:06 AM EDT by baddog]
Thank you, everyone, for alot of very helpful advice. I discovered there was alot I didn't know about the mechanics of these pistols from just target shooting. I've ended up carrying our Walther PPK-S 380, which from everything I've learned is extremely safe to carry chambered. It has an automatic safety that keeps the hammer from contacting the firing pin, and a manual safety that keeps the firing pin from striking the chambered round. So I'm now carrying chambered and feeling quite safe with it. The Walther isn't as light as I might like it to be, but after toting it around in my gun-carry handbag for a week I'm not even noticing the weight anymore. Except that it feels like somebody stole something when I take the gun out now. My handbag is specially designed for carry and has its own integrated holster.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 6:40:47 PM EDT
FWIW the 1911/1911A-1 do not posses the necessary safeties to consider them safe to carry with a round chambered. While I was a USMC armorer '91-'95 my first issued pistol and the one I carried for physical security of the Armory and other duties was a 1911A1. Per BN orders and the manual on physical security it was not authorized to carry with a round chambered. The base MP's, that were part of the same Bn, also were not authorized to carry chambered. When we got the M9 in '93(IIRC) we went to carrying with a round chambered. The difference was the Safeties on the pistols. The .45's big negative was the lack of an ability to retain the firing pin from contacting the primer. Having said that, I personally put more trust in training then I do safeties and I personally would carry any weapon with a round chambered, only if I felt my training with said weapon was a complete and thorough as humanly possible. One more point of interest. In the time I and the rest of the battalion carried the 1911A1's I believe there were 5 negligent discharges. Either from unauthorized carrying with a round chambered and bumping the pistol with a vehicle door or forgetting to pull the mag when clearing the pistol into the clearing barrel. After the swap to the M9 that number doubled in the same 2 year period. Like I said training is ten times as important as any safety and attention to detail is more important then both.
Link Posted: 11/6/2001 10:50:13 PM EDT
Hambone, how did they manage to set off a 1911 without depressing the grip safety? Were you using some strange holster that had a flap or strap or something that went over the grip safety? For that matter, how did they get the manual safety off so the hammer could fall? Or were they trying to "disguise" they were carrying against regulations by keeping the hammer down and the manual safety off, with a round in the chamber? That is the only way I can think of that you could set of a 1911 from something like a bump or a drop.
Link Posted: 11/7/2001 5:23:37 AM EDT
ArmdLbrl, The firing pin of the 1911/1911A1 is a free floating affair with only a very light spring to keep it retracted. A blow to the weapon can generate enough force to push the firing pin forward and discharge the weapon. The firing pin retaining safeties were not added to the 1911types until later models. FWIW if a 1911 type pistol if not kept in top shape at all times the safeties can and do fail, both the grip safety and manual safety can fail. Hence my reason for mentioning I trust training long before I trust mechanical safeties. The French would not build a weapon with a safety just for that reason. Holster wise in the armory we carried the older leather shoulder holster were the strap did go over the grip safety. The MP's carried with a LEO type black gear, no clue of the holster maker the thumb break strap covered the lowered hammer. The knuckle head that fired his pistol by hitting it with a van door was wearing a shoulder holster he had to borrow from our shop. He might have wished he hadn't forgotten his own holster. Wearing the shoulder holster he took the shot right in the hip.
Link Posted: 11/9/2001 8:59:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: I assume you mean a 1911-type. They are designed by a genius to be carried chamber loaded "cocked and locked." It makes my heart beat fast just typing that "cocked and locked." Hoo boy!
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ME TOO! I carry my Kimber Compact Stainless w/nite sites and "Sexy" rosewood grips "COcked and Locked"!!!
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