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3/20/2017 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 1/12/2002 11:36:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2002 11:37:00 AM EDT by SS109]
If you were going into combat in Somalia next month(highly likely for the US), which of our approved sidearms would you want to take? Being an H&K guy, I would take the 12 shot Mark 23. I like the calibre, capacity and the suppresor ability.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 5:42:34 PM EDT
love the 226
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 7:51:29 PM EDT
I'll take the 1911 and a hell of a lot of spare mags.
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 9:17:05 PM EDT
Right now I am leaning heavily for the GLOCK 31 .45ACP. But I know nothing of it. Benjamin
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 9:21:41 PM EDT
h&k no contest, come on- do you really think that if the whole military could afford them, that EVERY soldier would have one? [}:)]
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 10:58:52 AM EDT
Why the P226 instead of the P228? The P226 is used by a few special units (the SEALs, or so I have heard). The P228 (M11 in service) is used by MP, MI and Investigation units in all branches, last I heard.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 11:18:01 AM EDT
While I am a huge HK fan there is no way I'd take a MK23. The gun is just too big and I can't get any practical accuracy out of it. Natez, you are right, the M11 is still used by all of those agencies. The 226 is a great gun, but not a standard issue side arm. The only standard issue 1911 that are in use are the MEUSOC .45's, once agin, a fantastic gun, but with only 8 shots and 230gr per round, and we are the only country that still uses the .45, not very practical for long term, sustained fighting on foreign soil. Getting to the nitty-gritty, my choice would be the Beretta, with just a slight edge over the 226. Berettas are very reliable, hold 15+ rounds per mag, the ammo is light, and you can't go anywhere without having 9mm available.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 3:32:28 PM EDT
What is the advantage of the Beretta over the Sig?
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 3:39:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SchlaffTablett: ...I can't get any practical accuracy out of it [MK 23].
View Quote
what does practical accuracy mean? hell i can throw a SOCOM and hit whatever i'm aiming at. i think all the other guns are great, but i'm in the firm belief that the most indestructible, easy to operate, accurate weapon of these is the h&k
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 3:55:55 PM EDT
SIG P226 (Mine has OVER 40,000 rounds through it) 1. Caliber: Not a .45, but ammo availability is excellent. 2. Size: Not too big (and pricey) like that pig SOCOM (and you can still suppress an extended P226), but the full size barrel allows 9mm to speed a little. I'd take the P228 for concealment. 3. Reliability: Like I said, OVER 40,000 rounds through it, and I can't remember the last time a had a feed problem. 4. Accuracy: There's no doubt that this is one of the most accurate pistols (in any caliber) right out of the box. 5. Capacity: Keep swapping those mags, Mr. 1911 [;)]. Somebody said the P226 is not a standard issue sidearm. Not for the US, maybe. But armed forces all over the world are using this pistol, and their choices are less political than ours. Beretta: I owned one for two years and about 10,000 rnds, and shot it right along side my SIG. I that time, the 92FS broke two firing pins and the finish CAME OFF my lower (and Beretta wanted $190 to refinish it). No contest, SIG rules. 1911A1: Good gun, but I'm biased because my Springfield has last round feed issues. Plus, 8rnds capacity against 2000 Somalis doesn't cut it. SOCOM: Big, expensive TOY. That's it. USP: Not bad, but I don't really like the plastic feel of the trigger, and I've seen well-worn USPs with fire-control problems. Glocks: Great guns, but I prefer the SIG because I have a deeper history with my P226. Disclaimer: All of the above is merely personal opinion, and not meant as a personal attack on the character, familial lineage, or intelligence of fanatics of other persuasions. Flame On!
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 5:55:03 PM EDT
The answer depends on what the person in question's job would be while on the ground. Personally I would want a 1911 unless I needed a suppressor. If I needed a suppressor, I would want the M9 or the MK23, probably the M9. If I was going with a 9x19mm, I would take the M9 over the 226 because of magazine and parts availability and the fact that it "blends in". Most CAG (Delta) guys carry a M9 just because it helps them look like any other soldier. Also, last I read, the 1911 is issued to CAG in addition to MEU(SOC). Also, what condition are these hypothetical weapons in? Are the 1911's 1911A1 model weapons still in inventory, or does a Kimber, SA, or current production Colt count? If we are talking about drawing weapons out of the armory, that changes everything. JAW
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:22:52 PM EDT
-Vet, IMO the Beretta has the advantage over the SIG in this case simply because of the availability of mags and accessories. That not withstanding, I think both are on par. -Colin, practical accuracy means that, while you can strap the MK23 in a rest and get 1 hole groups all day long, the ergonomics of the gun (the massive grip, control levers I have to reach around the block to operate) won't allow me to hit jack off hand. -Sample, I'll agree to pretty much everything you said. Although I happen to have more expereance with the Beretta. Once again, I think all of the selections are great guns, but the question that was posed was "if I was going to Somalia....what would I want to take." No flames intended, just my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/13/2002 6:41:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2002 6:43:24 PM EDT by 9divdoc]
Go back into your history book and read about Black Jack Pershing fighting the Moros back in the Phillipine Isurrection...45 colt was the stoppper [url]http://www.manatarmsbooks.com/excerpt.html[/url] Since in 'so called "civilized" combat' we are limited to FMJ ...I would opt for the 45 ACP...I would also like it indestructible..built to fire caked with mud sand or ice..a high cap mag...night sights..but only the front site..and not too bright..dont care about the silencer issue..wouldnt be my mission..pistol trumps a bayonet..but Id have a combat knife of somesort along anyway.. Glock 21...or Sig P220 (even with limited mag) When your enemy is hopped up on stimulents and narcotics..put a big hole in them... BTW all Medics and RTOs need to carry a pistol in addition to their rifle...imo
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:34:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2002 4:44:08 PM EDT by Derek45]
I've been shooting 1911's since I was a kid growing up in the 1970's and 80's. My Grandfather carried a 1911 in WWI ( yes, ONE)His 1911 has been in My Family for many many years. I've been tinkering, building and shooting IPSC with 1911's since I was old enough to buy My own. To me, Nothing feels better than a good 1911. [b]AND IT HITS WITH A RESOUNDING THUD ! [/B]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 3:43:29 PM EDT
I like the .38 because it looks cool.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:22:42 PM EDT
To clarify, the 1911's would be the leftover USGI ones. I would choose the Mark 23 first and the M9 second.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:31:33 PM EDT
M1911. What else? However, several US Service sidearms were left off of the list. There is the Colt M1909 .45 Colt revolver, and the Colt and Smith & Wesson M1917 .45 ACP revolvers (I think the S&W is the clear choice between the two M1917s, since unlike the Colt it will work without halfmoon or fullmoon clips). And, even earlier there is the old Colt M1892 .38 Long Colt revolver, but who would choose that? If we are going to consider special ops weapons like the H&K, how about the S&W M39 9mm "hush puppy" used by the SEALs in 'nam?
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 11:27:47 AM EDT
I'd take the M1911, a pile of 230 grainers, and whack them skinnies good.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 1:52:34 PM EDT
I guess I am shocked that the M9 has only 10% at this time. I would have figured that since it is issued in vastly more numbers than the others, that it would be more popular? Learn something new everyday.
Link Posted: 1/15/2002 2:29:38 PM EDT
I'll take the Beretta over the 226 only for the availablity of mags. Since the rest of the corps would have Berettas as well. No need for a special mag order if I loose a couple ten in combat. I would take a .45 except that it would be an old 1911A1 or 1991A1 with no upgrades. If I had my choice of any 1911 in the world, I would choose a 1911. We are talking army issue here right?
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