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Posted: 5/17/2017 7:29:11 AM EDT
My father (almost 91) has a note in has navy record that references his participation in a secret mission along with a communication report number from has ship, the Saratoga.

Is that report declassified by now, and how do I find it?

He tried to access in 1981, when he just happened to be at the Navy Yard in DC and was told it was still classified... and not to bug the admiral for access.  I don't have the number, though I suppose I could bug him for it, but I do know when it should have been dated. (Late Feb, 1945)

He pretty much knows what the report should say, but I sense he'd like to see it anyway.  That citation, in his record, probably changed his life.
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 10:41:56 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 10:44:13 AM EDT
[#2]
Has he not shared with you the nature of the mission?
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 10:52:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Too many variables.


If it was still classified in 1981, it's unlikely it's been declassified now, but you can try the link above.
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 11:02:22 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Too many variables.


If it was still classified in 1981, it's unlikely it's been declassified now, but you can try the link above.
View Quote
Very few items have 75yr+ declass instructions.  Might have been declassed in 1995 with a 50yr declass date.

At this point it's old history and .gov probably should declass it anyways.
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 11:35:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Was the USS Saratoga used to test proximity fuses for anti-aircraft use?

The proximity fuse was a closely guarded secret for a long time.  IIRC the spy Rosenberg stole one design for the fuse and gave it to the Soviets.
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 2:00:18 PM EDT
[#6]
The WWII Saratoga was used as a test ship and sunk during post war nuke testing at Bikini Atoll.  Could your father have been involved in the nuke testing?  My wife had an uncle that was one of the first into Hiroshima following the war (to study the effects of the bomb) and he was sworn to secrecy about what he saw there.
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 10:26:24 PM EDT
[#7]
It was the raid on Tokyo, Taskforce 58.  My dad kept his story a secret for 70 years, until he told me it two years ago on the 70th anniversary.  I wrote it down that evening so I would remember the details.

When they arrived on the Saratoga (night torpedo squadron 53,  VT(N)53 ) my father was assigned to be trained on special equipment that was to be installed in his TBM.  As a radioman, he had previously been trained on the radar their squadron was equipped with and scored tops in the class.  Maybe that's why they were picked, or maybe because his pilot was a bit older than the rest (25?).

Each day, for a week he would go to the Island, past the bridge where I suppose the Combat Information Center was and attend training on the equipment.  The guys training him were civilians.  It was an unusual place for an air crewman to be seen and it drew a lot of unwanted attention on him from the junior officers as he tried to make his way to training alone.

The equipment was a radar detection set, and I believe they also had some jamming capability.   They were to scout the Tokyo attack routes ahead of time to scan for Japanese radar defenses and report back.  The equipment was installed in the TBM before the flights and removed right after it by the same civilians.

As the fleet approached Japan their lone TBM launched with a single Wildcat fighter escorting.  The plan was to fly well ahead of the fleet and probe the Japanese coastline for RADAR signals.  It was a cloudy day ahead of them, and they had to climb to over 9,000' to break into the clear.  The seriousness of the mission probably sunk in when they returned not to the Saratoga, but to the command ship, USS Enterprise.  My dad waited in the ready room while his pilot brief the Admirals staff on the mission.  No radar was detected and there was nothing to jam.  When the pilot came back to collect my father, he said not to mention a word to anyone about what they did or where they went.  They returned to the Saratoga.

A few days later the Saratoga was hit off Chima Jima and their war was over.  All the TBMs were lost in favor of saving Wildcats.  It actually led to a ticket home for my father as his pilot was selected to become a trainer back in the states and was allowed to take his crew.  While the squadron's time in the pacific was relatively short, all totaled, they had lost nearly 1/3 of the crews to accidents over the previous year.

Later, my dad got a recommendation to attend the Naval Academy Prep school and then attend the Academy.  He retired in 1981 as a captain.  Not bad for a guy who left home for WWII at 17 after his junior year in high school.


Anyway, he credits that cryptic citation in his record for a lot of good fortune in his early navy career.  I think he'd like to see it, but I'm sure he doesn't want a fuss about it either.  He was 18 at the time of the mission
Link Posted: 5/17/2017 10:33:16 PM EDT
[#8]
The FOIA request might be a slam dunk if I could get that document number.  I knew I should have snapped a photo when we were looking at it Saturday.

Now I have to figure out how to get it... Oh sure, you say... ask him... maybe... but that might also stir something up with him which I would want to avoid. 90 year olds don't like people messing with their business.  My mom or sister could do it, but are just a likely to mess it up.
Link Posted: 5/21/2017 3:08:59 PM EDT
[#9]
God bless your Dad and all the people that took part in WWll.  My Step father flew as a B-29 bombardier in Europe, then he came back to instruct other on the Norden bombsight. Retired as a Col. He's pushing 97 this year and is sharp as a tack.
Link Posted: 5/22/2017 9:46:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
God bless your Dad and all the people that took part in WWll.  My Step father flew as a B-29 bombardier in Europe, then he came back to instruct other on the Norden bombsight. Retired as a Col. He's pushing 97 this year and is sharp as a tack.
View Quote
B-29s were deployed in Europe?
Link Posted: 5/22/2017 12:59:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Eh, actually the B-17.
Link Posted: 5/24/2017 2:15:39 PM EDT
[#12]
I got a photo of the page in question... might post... needs some OPSEC redaction

The section in question says:  "Commended for conduct in action in accordance with Air Group Commander's Secret LTD. to BuPers, CVG(N) -53/P20 -2/00, (VFM:mdb)."
Link Posted: 5/24/2017 2:45:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/24/2017 2:49:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Certified bad-ass!
Link Posted: 5/24/2017 11:03:33 PM EDT
[#15]
trying to decode that number...

P20-2, found this in the 1941 Navy filing manual, basically could be anything.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/24/2017 11:20:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Concur with machinegunseabee for a FOIA or National Archives Release through your Congressman or Senator.

Something sensitive like that would have been declassified in 1995 on the 50th.  Only a few Special Access Programs have automatic review to remain classified another 25 to 50 years.
Link Posted: 5/25/2017 12:58:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Pull out all stops and try to get that letter into your father's hands.....
Link Posted: 5/27/2017 12:55:55 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Pull out all stops and try to get that letter into your father's hands.....
View Quote
Thanks, I appreciate that.


I have a foia request in, but I'm thinking this document was transferred to NARA.  Which might as well be the warehouse from Raiders of the Lost Ark

Anyway, plan is to spend a day there looking for it soon.  I've been searching the online index, but haven't dialed in on it yet... at least I don't think.  I did find a crate P20-2's but I don't believe it convers the Saratoga.
Link Posted: 5/31/2017 10:41:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Today I spent the day at the National Archives in College Park Maryland.  It was an interesting experience gaining access to the archives and going through the procedures.  I'm not sure I liked it too much (lots of control), but I was able to meet with an archivist specializing in Military records.  He was very skeptical I'd ever find the letter and didn't think I had enough information to find it even if it existed.

I didn't let that slow anything down and kept pressing forward.  The archives work like an old library from back in the day, nothing is electronic where I was!  He dove into binders of indexes looking for records from the Saratoga and the Task Force.  Once he found a few interesting boxes, we wrote up call slips to have them pulled.  Records requests are due every 2 hours and take an hour to fill, so there is a lot of downtime if you don't keep your desk full of boxes.

The first two boxes arrived and one was simply not relevant.  The second box had a folder about 1/2 inch thick that covered the Saratoga's Task Force at Iwo Jima.  I was thinking I'd hit gold as I started reading.  The first fifteen pages are so described the mission, then there was a detailed report on the attack on Feb 21, 1945 where the Saratoga took 5 bomb hits and 3 kamikazes.  The bulk of the folder was pages and pages of casualties.

During the down time when I was waiting on the next two boxes I got on my hot spot (they don't have wifi) and went to fold3.com  I was having better experiences searching that site vs NARA's online index and wanted to continue the search there.  It soon became obvious they had many of the same records I was trying to pull from the shelves at NARA.  Except they have them searchable!

So here is what I found:

History of VT(N)-53
Saratoga flight logs for Feb 1945
Task Force 58.5 Action Reports

Of interest:

Attachment Attached File


This was my father's flight.  The VT is a TBM equipped with Radar Counter Measures (Detecting and Jamming).  The VF was a night fighter Hellcat for escort.

Attachment Attached File


Task Force 58.5 action report reflecting on the value of the RCM missions.

Attachment Attached File


Further in the action report reflecting on the lack of attack on my father's plane!  I guess this was a dangerous mission.


The squadron VT(N)-53 was pulled together in Hawaii from smaller squadrons destine for escort carriers.  My father's original squadron VT(N)-43 was destine for the Princeton, but she was sunk before they arrived.  Saratoga was able to take on nearly triple the number of TBMs.

So what about the letter I was looking for?  Not really sure.  The archivist suggested it was a P20 for an officer.  If that's true, I'd think it was for the pilot and might be part of his service record.  No idea and no idea if the can be tracked down.
Link Posted: 6/4/2017 2:25:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
Very few items have 75yr+ declass instructions.  Might have been declassed in 1995 with a 50yr declass date.

At this point it's old history and .gov probably should declass it anyways.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Too many variables.


If it was still classified in 1981, it's unlikely it's been declassified now, but you can try the link above.
Very few items have 75yr+ declass instructions.  Might have been declassed in 1995 with a 50yr declass date.

At this point it's old history and .gov probably should declass it anyways.
While working on black projects in the 1980s to 1990s we had stuff marked 100 year and some with NO DATE yet established.

There is still WW1 and WW2 stuff hanging around that is likely to never see the light of day.
Link Posted: 8/3/2017 10:45:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


While working on black projects in the 1980s to 1990s we had stuff marked 100 year and some with NO DATE yet established.

There is still WW1 and WW2 stuff hanging around that is likely to never see the light of day.
View Quote
Really? While Im not doubting you, that seems hard to understand. What is the nature of anything from 1917 that would still be Classified?  Technology or events?
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 1:36:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 2:04:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Good stuff OP, Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 1:36:37 PM EDT
[#24]
50 year and 100 years declass are common.

There are indefinite out there though.

A lot of WW2 stuff had 50 year if it dealt with operations.

Plenty of intelligence is 100 and indefinite.

We still use some of the techniques (though heavily updated).

Better to not tip anyone to look.

Hidden in plain sight.


One long reveled method is called 'rafter.'

It consists of finding radios by leakage of their LOs  and IF through their own antenna port.

The Brits use it to check for television licenses.
Link Posted: 8/29/2017 2:00:28 PM EDT
[#25]
While you didn't find the individual letter I believe you've found the "Why" for his commendation.  Sounds like one of the earliest examples of "Wild Weasel"-type jamming missions and Measurement and Signature Intelligence (MASINT).

To say it was both dangerous and life-saving is obvious.
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