NIS and other intelligence agencies were still looking for Hitler in the '50s.

I believe he was at such a fragile state medically that he never would have survived a journey across the Atlantic. His withdrawl symptoms may not have killed him, but in his weakened and deteriorating state, I cannot

imagine that his body would have the functional reserve to survive that added stress. 

As far as being a narcissistic megalomaniacal purveyor of genocide...I do not see how those traits would make him more likely to flee, as others have suggested. A serial killer is a much different animal than a burnt out

dictator who knows every Tom, Dick and Harry on the planet is going to be hunting him to the ends of earth. His personality trait of extreme paranoia, leads me to the conclude that even if he could have risked a daring

escape across the Atlantic, he had to have been aware of the impending reciprocities that would be leveled against him if captured. At the core, he was not only maniacal but also cowardly. Taking his own life seems the only 

logical conclusion to his dilemma. He saw the Reich in ruins beneath his feet, he understood the retaliatory nature of the Soviets, and he undoubtedly feared American and British reprisals against him...He took the coward's

exit.

Every intelligence agency in the world were still looking for him or were not convinced of his death well into the 60's. Look how many top Nazis just disappeared, Chile and Argentina, had huge German populations and Nazi supporters. History channels Hunting Hitler aside, there are a few books out that come to the same conclusion. The so called eye witness's actually never saw his death it's all based on hearsay as well as testimonies that changed many times, truth is no one actually saw Hitler or his body, something else one needs to remember, history is written by the winners, we all know everyone wanted Hitler dead, but did he die there, Argentina or Chile? There are only 4 or 5 people tops who truly know and their long dead, and Bormans so called gravesite was way to convienant. Take time and actually do the research, I did, even before Hunting Hitler, one thing is for sure, every eye witness was not actually a witness, everyone in the bunker who was interrogated story changed at least 3 times, once you do read them you realize no one actually saw or knew anything, it was all hear say, last thing research the Perone years of Argentina, and another interesting place to read up on this is sharkhunters.com did he die in Berlin, doubtful, but one thing is for sure, we will never know for sure.

No, but he could sell his safety for a package deal of his greatest minds to the highest bidder, and we know Stalin wouldn't have given him anything, so his only game was to strike a deal and hand over The Who's who of Germany's best, funny how the Israelis only captured what 2 from South America, than suddenly quit?

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3988205-HITLER-ADOLF-0003.html#document/p2

This, plus they knew of a few former Nazis in Argentina, but after they grabbed Barbi, the fallout against the Jewish population in Argentina, there were no more abductions or requests for that matter for any extraditions

I believe he made it out, as did Bormann, I've always found it odd that with all the searching and eyewitness sightings of where he died, it took until 1972 to find him, almost exactly where he was last seen? I think Bormann setup operation paper clip and Hitler and a few others were part of the deal, they didn't just hand over nazis but tons of research work, research work that was spared and not destroyed. Look at the Mig 15 and F-86, than look at the Messerschmitt P1011. There are just to many coincidences, did live long? Doubtful but he didn't die there.

And across the border in Chile.

It's all very interesting. He had more than enough riches to buy his way out through Spain.

How much money, gold and other treasures were actually recovered? Mengele escaped, so did Barbi. Stalin’s granddaughter spoke one time that her mom told her, her father was convinced we had Hitler, he even told Roosevelt and Churchill he didn’t think it was Hitler, and that the KGB looked for him into the 60’s. You have to remember every Russian soldier was scared of Stalin, he’d have you executed for giving him news he didn’t like, and therefore you were a failure, add to that he was beyond paranoid.

What Top Nazis disappeared?

Barbi, Mengle, right off the top of my head, granted they were caught, but they made it out of Germany, and there are rumors of how and why they were caught, basically turned in, but why? Himmler had made it almost out, but he did something stupid to bring undo attention on himself. Had he not loaded as a policeman he would have most likely made it out of Germany.

I have been watching the Hunting Hitler series. It appears a lot of effort and resources went into ensuring that there were escape routes. However, were these constructed for and by other top Nazis or for Hitler? They may have been set up for Hitler and others and used by top officials.

I keep going back, looking at Joesph Goebbels. He and his wife were committed to Hitler.  I am not sure if Goebbels believed his own propaganda, but they appeared to be much more faithful than the other Nazi generals and party officials.

Consider the fact Magda Goebbels sent her own her father a concentration camp. Goebbels was upset and depressed after Hitler committed suicide. He was reported to have said "It is a great pity that such a man is not with us any longer. But there is nothing to be done. For us, everything is lost now and the only way out left for us is the one which Hitler chose. I shall follow his example."
(1)

Goebbels and his wife first killed six of their children. Then he shot Magda and then himself or they took cyanide. Nazi guards later shot the bodies. Berlin was falling, the Russians were closing in. However, if Hitler escaped, why would Goebbels not also attempt to escape? Why wouldn't he at least try to get the kids out? I can't fathom why someone would sacrifice their children if the leader ran away in order to perpetuate the ruse.

It might have been after Hitler flew the coop their window collapsed and he was afraid of what would happen to him and the kids, but it appears, to me, he was making the "full grape Koolaid" blind, cult loyalty decision and "following the example of his beloved Führer."

Therefore, it is my belief, that Hitler died in the bunker and others escaped.

(1) Vinogradov, V. K. (2005). Hitler's Death: Russia's Last Great Secret from the Files of the KGB. Chaucer Press. p157

The body of the fuhrer had darned socks.  Hitler's servant said he had darned the fuhrer's socks (read that recently in Hitler's Holy Relics, about a monument man who was tracking down the Spear of Destiney as well as the Crown Jewels of the Holy Roman Empire).

Like one NKVD officer observed, does anyone really believe that Adolph Hitler would need to have his socks darned?  They were eating strawberry cakes inside the bunker before it fell.

If I remember right, wasn’t there some miscommunication between Gobbels or Bormann or was it Hitler himself or another high ranking Nazi that led him to commit suicide? I can’t remember now for the life of me. My whole issue with Hitler dying in the bunker is the guy was a delusional psychopath, on drugs no less, to try and figure out what he was planning or going to do is impossible, and he’d pretty much do what’s told. With that said no one knows what he was thinking or going to do.

My other issues are, no one saw the actual bodies, the official stories have all changed so many times, and they are simply to detailed and alike, the place was under constant shelling, anyone’s attention to details is not going to be that good. Then you have a dental assistant who dental ID from memory? From how many years ago he had seen him?  Acutal  evidence turned out to be false, and finely Stalin never believed he died there, and actually thought the Americans allowed him to escape or even helped as part of operation Paperclip.

Then we also know that the CIA, FBI, KGB, GRU, MOSSAD, British intelligence and other swere all looking for him, some until the early 70’s why spend money and resources on a dead man? Odessa was so well organized, look how many very high Nazis got away, and look how a couple were actually caught. I don’t know if he ever made it to Argentina, but I would bet he died at Berghoff. He loved that place more than anything, it was his beloved Germany at best.

Good points.
I am probably wrong and should do some research, but I think Hitler dictated his Last Will and Testament, and named Goebbels as Reich Chancellor. Goebbels and Bormann were witnesses. Hitler or others may have been may have been encouraging Goebbels to take his family and flee, however in his loyalty Goebbels wrote a postscript to his beloved leader's Last Will along the lines of : I have bad leg. Besides these little kids of mine will do nothing but slow me down. I have no place to go. I am like the captain of a sinking ship therefore, I have no choice but to stay until the end and go down with the ship. Of course, it was in German so that might be a very loose translation.

That may have been a cover for Hitler, who was saying "Peace, I am out of here." Maybe Goebbels killed them not out of loyalty, but because 1) they prevented him from escaping, 2) they were horrible reminders of how much he truly hated and was stuck with Magda [he had several affairs], 3) he was genuinely afraid the Russians would capture rape and torture the kids; or perhaps Goebbels sacrificed himself and his family for Hitler.

It would be interesting if Hitler married Braun; allowed her to kill herself or he killed her knowing that she would not be able to give him away, as she would if captured alive. Then faked his death with the assistance of a couple of aids and without the knowledge of anyone else in the furherbunker. Goebbels assumed he was dead, was despondent, he and Magda killed the kids, then killed themselves. While Hitler was long gone, using one of the escape routes.

Something else people don’t realize, Berlin has or I should say had, more tunnels underground than any any other city in the world. We really don’t know how many exit the bunker had, as it was destroyed and no one has ever really documented it. I know the when the wall went up, the East Germans spent years attempting to seal up every tunnel to the west,

Everyone is so focused on them flying out, which could have been done with a FI156, but why when you could walk? That why I don’t buy Bormann death ether, they found his body 30 years later where a witness saw him shot? I think it was relocated after he died, my issue there is, they know where he was shot, Germany was being rebuilt, there was massive cleanup, and it took until the 70’s to find his body? Then by accident?

Just about finished reading this book on this subject. Fascinating. Grey Wolf. I am convinced it is at least a possibility.

Just on history, Time travel was accepted by Einstein.

Attached File

Sometimes I wish I had TeeVee.

Lol, but here is a question that was asked of me a while back.
What if the skull the Russians have is actually Eva Braun? What if she was shot and the reason no one ever saw the actual bodies was because they would know it wasn’t Hitler, and the story would fall apart that Hitler hadn’t shot himself but Eva instead? He shot his beloved Blondi, why couldn’t he shoot eva if it meant his survival? Not saying I bought into it, but it does make a interesting scenario.

I'm posting this with the authors permission concerning the show "Hunting Hitler".

I only watched one episode – the last one. I can’t speak about South America, or Hohenlychen, or anywhere else. But I CAN speak about what they did on the Obersalzberg and in Berchtesgaden. Nothing “new” in this show!

They didn’t DISCOVER anything. They simply go over things and places that have been known and published in books, videos, and on the internet for YEARS. None of these things are new, or any sort of secret, and they didn’t independently FIND any of it. None of what they saw should be a surprise to them, because ANY basic research would have shown all of this information and these sites in all sorts of publications, dating back decades.

For example, when they interviewed Florian Beierl in Berchtesgaden (which they insist on mispronouncing), and he tells them about the tunnel systems on the Obersalzberg where Hitler’s Berghof home was, they say, “Really???” and act massively surprised. If they really didn’t know this, or didn’t know what’s behind that bunker door on the Obersalzberg, it’s because they are piss-poor researchers. These tunnel systems have been known to the public since 1945, and they were mapped and published by Florian Beierl in his book “Hitlers Berg” in 2004. No secrets there! Nothing new!

Then they go to the Kanzlei in Berchtesgaden and their crew acts surprised at the interior rooms and the tunnel system. That was nothing but complete dishonest deception. Their historian was in another production in 2015 for which I acted as the local guide and historical consultant, and I told them abut the Kanzlei and the tunnel (not to mention showing them the other sites they visited in Berchtesgaden and on the Obersalzberg in this recent episode), and I was with him in the Kanzlei building and in those same tunnels. So, yeah, he had been there before, and none of that was any sort of surprise to him. It was all a big put-on.

This whole show was ridiculous and laughable. I just really can’t believe anyone buys into this crap. It’s all a sham. But if you like that sort of thing, well ...

Geoff Walden
“Third Reich in Ruins” www.thirdreichruins.com
Author, “Hitler’s Berchtesgaden” 2014

I’m not sure what your point is? I do know all that information was available long before 2004 as well. I got into looking at this back in the 80’s and early 90’s, after a trip to Germany for a family reunion, meeting cousins and getting some real cool tours of WW2 sites and rememenats. One of my best friends dad was also a huge influence as he ended up being stationed in Germany through 46, and then again in 48. That’s when I learned about Odessa and the many routes out of Germany as well as many of the Nazis who did escape. I agree the show is a sham, I have yet to something new. Like I have said before I think Hitler did leave the bunker, but I think he died at Berghoff.

My issue has always been the fact that no one actually saw the bodies, the only dental ID was from memory by a assistant, and the fact the official stories changed so many times. Then there is the fact Stalin was convinced Hitler escapecand we had him, as well as every major intelligence agency was looking for him. I never took stock in Stalin’s words until I was at a Q&A with his granddaughter one time where she said her mom said Stalin would go off on the Americans for helping Hitler escape, and was convinced we were hiding him. Plus she made another good point, if Russia had him, they would have paraded his remains for the whole world to see.

NOT the time travel you are imagining. Not by any definition.  

What an idiot!  Really, Barbie....

She is right here!

Attached File

So the E got dropped off, I didn’t spell check, fact remains the same, he fucking escaped Germany as a wanted Nazi war criminal. Read your fucking history.
ETA, do I need to add their first names to help you look them up?
Klaus Barbie
Josef Mengele
Knock yourself out.

Ummm. No polar bears in Antarctica.

Hitler killed himself in the bunker. Attached File


He knew about Mussolini’s death and hanging. He and Eva knew that this was coming for them when they were defeated if captured.

He rolled the dice and lost. Not a chance he hid out in Argentina in a mountain chalet.

I have never said that, I think he went and offed himself at Berghoff, he loved that place and it was his beloved Germany, not some dank hole in the ground.

*sniff*

Smells foily around here...

Attached File

Yes, he's been hiding on the sound stage the US government used to fake the moon landings.

Well since your the expert, yet producing absolutely nothing, prove it was him in the bunker, show me a body, anything? If you bothered to read about, not what history tells you to believe, if Hitler shot himself why did the skull with hole in it, turn out to be a women’s? Why did all the official stories change so many times throughout the questioning? How can a positive ID be made by dental records from a assistant from memory be conclusive?  Why was Stalin convinced we had him? Why won’t the Russians let anyone check the remains again? Why was every major intelligence agency still looking for him or his remains throughout the 60’s and in a couple cases the 70’s? Answer those questions, then let’s talk. Answering with a emoji, picture or meme just proves you can’t bring anything to the discussion other than your immature and fail to have a serious discussion.

ETA, do you think with the evidence provided you could take this case to trial and win?

I’ve been watching the Hunting Hitler show and I still think the most likely scenario is that he died in the bunker. I think it’s possible but unlikely he escaped to South America. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter since he never resurfaced but it is interesting to consider. There clearly were some Nazis who ended up in South America but that was fairly well known already.

I’m not under any delusion the show is completely accurate or making huge new discoveries. It’s moderately historically based dramatic entertainment.

I know it’s like all those “investigative” shows, doesn’t matter what network, it’s about ratings and to get ratings you suck people in. I love those people who swear he made it to Soth America, not even thinking about his mental state, nor physical state, the only reason I think he died at Berghoff is that he loved that place more than anything and his attitude if he couldn’t have Germany than no one was going to get it. It also doesn’t hurt that from all my reading of the material I can get, the surviving Nazi Les and civilians there, simply kept changing their stories. The. Without going into it all again since I posted it above, to many damn irregularities, stuff that if it was done today wouldn’t fly at all, and from what I have gathered the Russians don’t want the pieces of remains they have left checked again as they don’t think they are Hitlers or Braun’s.

I notice that Soros is still alive...

Neither Barbie nor Mengele were in Berlin at the end.  How many are known to have escaped from the bunker?

Mike

All the information they are discovering has been widely known and published for years. They are finding nothing new. I am casually watching the show because I have never been to any of these places and find the connections interesting. However, acting like you have found the Ark of the Covenant with Mengele living in South America and Uruguay is a bit of stretch.

There is no doubt high ranking Nazis escaped and led comfortable lives. Mengele was so comfortable, he got a West German passport in his own name and went to Switzerland. This is for the uninformed.

Again, did they plan these routes for themselves, or were they set up for Hitler and they took advantage of them?

I wished we honestly knew or had that information. All we have is what was given during questioning, and that as anyone who wants to read up on that, stories changed constantly. It’s not a stretch by any means to think they were covering up allot, and we have proof of that as well. If you research those who escaped many were still n germany or near by throughout 45, 46 and some didn’t get out until 47.

ETA, as far as Hitlers bunker, we honestly don’t know who or what was in there as the soviets promptly blew the entrances, as well as the East Germans did all they could to keep people out. There was a guy in the 80’s who snuck in while they were building the area up, when they exposed it, he managed to get in a couple times, he did get caught and they confiscated his camera and film. They for some reason wanted no one in there even I the 80’s? He did get a few pictures and he’s posted them online.

My son has DVRd it, said I should watch it, for the same reasons as you, I have family in Germany and Norway, so I’ve gotten taken to allot of those places as well. What I find most amazing are the underground tours, but there is just so much to take in its next to impossible to get it all in or grasp any of it until you have seen it. I would to have gotten to have seen Hitlers bunker.

"they interviewed Florian Beierl in Berchtesgaden (which they insist on mispronouncing)"

Ha, ha!!

They can't pronounce Mengele correctly either!!
It's "Mengel-uh"
Not"Mengal-lay"

I certainly does NOT inspire confidence when an "investigator" (someone who is supposed to be carefully analyzing DETAILS), cannot even pronounce the names of people and places correctly.

Around Schwäbisch-Gmund it'd be Mengel-eh.  It's only Mengel-uh in Weatherman German.

Not that this is a scholarly contribution, but it's fun:

http://listverse.com/2018/02/26/10-genuine-reasons-to-consider-that-hitler-really-did-escape-berlin/

Type XXI U-boat, U3523, located sunk off Denmark.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6077630/missing-german-submarine-that-transported-top-nazi-to-south-america-after-ww2-discovered-after-73-years-so-what-secrets-will-it-reveal/

Lets see how the History channel monkeys spin this, lol.

In his memoirs Zhukov wrote he believes that Hitler committed suicide.  Remember his memoir was published in 1971 so what was written was not contemporaneous with 1945.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/hitlers-teeth-confirm-he-died-1945-180969133/

April 30, 1945, as Allied forces converged on the capital of Nazi Germany, Hitler killed himself inside his Führerbunker. Days later, his remains were captured by the Red Army and were subsequently locked behind the Iron Curtain for decades.

This proved fodder enough for conspiracy theorists, who wanted to argue that Hitler did not die in the bunker, but rather managed, somehow, to escape like other high-ranking Nazi officials, including Adolf Eichmann and Josef Mengele, who were able to slink off to South America to live out their lives after the collapse of the Third Reich.
It didn’t help things that when Connecticut archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni examined fragments of the skull believed to be Hitler’s in 2009, he claimed on the History Channel documentary, “Hilter’s Escape,” that the skull with the bullet wound actually belonged to a woman under the age of 40. (The Russian State Archive, for its part, denies that Bellantoni’s team was ever given access to examine the skull.)
But now, reports Deutsche Welle, a study of the Fuhrer’s purported teeth in the Russian State Archive found them to be an exact match, confirming that Hitler did indeed die in his bunker, likely by taking cyanide and shooting himself in the head.

This proved fodder enough for conspiracy theorists, who wanted to argue that Hitler did not die in the bunker, but rather managed, somehow, to escape like other high-ranking Nazi officials, including Adolf Eichmann and Josef Mengele, who were able to slink off to South America to live out their lives after the collapse of the Third Reich.
It didn’t help things that when Connecticut archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni examined fragments of the skull believed to be Hitler’s in 2009, he claimed on the History Channel documentary, “Hilter’s Escape,” that the skull with the bullet wound actually belonged to a woman under the age of 40. (The Russian State Archive, for its part, denies that Bellantoni’s team was ever given access to examine the skull.)
But now, reports Deutsche Welle, a study of the Fuhrer’s purported teeth in the Russian State Archive found them to be an exact match, confirming that Hitler did indeed die in his bunker, likely by taking cyanide and shooting himself in the head.

“Adolf Hitler definitely died in 1945,” reports Agence-France Presse, which explains that in March and July of 2017, Russia’s FSB, the successor to the Soviet Union’s KGB, gave a team of French pathologists access to Hitler’s jawbone and teeth.
It’s well-documented that the Nazi leader had notoriously bad teeth and gum disease (which led to some extremely bad breath in the last years of his life); by the end, he had only a few of his original chompers left, which left him with a complicated set of bridges and dentures. That, according to the forensic team, made ID’ing his jawbone relatively simple. The teeth appear to match X-rays taken of Hitler in 1944 and descriptions provided to the Soviets by Hitler’s dentist and his dental assistant.
“The teeth are authentic, there is no possible doubt. Our study proves that Hitler died in 1945,” Philippe Charlier, lead author of the study in the European Journal of Internal Medicine, tells AFP. “We can stop all the conspiracy theories about Hitler. He did not flee to Argentina in a submarine, he is not in a hidden base in Antarctica or on the dark side of the moon.”
The team did not find any remains of meat in the teeth, which is also consistent with Hitler’s vegetarianism. Bluish stains on some of the false teeth indicate that he may have taken cyanide to end his life. Researchers did not find any gunpowder residue on the jaw, which suggests that if Hitler did shoot himself, it was done through the forehead or the neck, not the mouth.
The story of why it’s taken more than 70 years to ID Hitler’s teeth is as screwy as the Fuhrer’s teeth, themselves. DW reports that Hitler, fearing that his body might be strung up or mutilated like Benito Mussolini’s, gave orders that his body and that of his wife Eva Braun be burned after their deaths.
On May 5, the Soviets discovered the two charred bodies in a bomb crater outside the bunker. Head of the KGB, the later Soviet Premier Yuri Andropov ordered the remains to be thrown in the Biederitz River to prevent a burial site from becoming a place of pilgrimage for fascists.
However, the Red Army did keep a portion of the jaw and a piece of skull with a bullet wound, transferring them to the archives in Moscow. DW reports that Stalin decided to sow doubt about Hitler’s death in a ploy called “Operation Myth.” The idea was to make the world believe the Americans or British were hiding Hitler for some nefarious reason and associate the West with Nazism.
It may not have worked, but it was enough to spawn conspiracy theories, books and films like The Boys From Brazil, which kept alive the notion that Hitler somehow escaped the bunker and lived out his life elsewhere.

I read a book recently that said they kept Hitler sidelined (much like how he was managing “ghost divisions” in the bunker) until his age /dementia was sufficient to keep him quiet.

This wasn’t by design.  The party members who fled with him simply couldn’t reinvigorate the party in South America.

I can’t remeber the book title (I read A LOT) but know the short fat guy from Hunting Hitler was the co-author.

Here’s the book:

https://www.amazon.com/Grey-Wolf-Escape-Adolf-Hitler/dp/1402796196