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Posted: 4/30/2012 2:39:30 PM
[Last Edit: 4/30/2012 6:18:01 PM by sbfirecapt1]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Weapons for the IRB[citation needed] were supplied by Germany under the auspices of a leading human rights campaigner, Sir Roger Casement; the shipment included over 20,000 rifles, as well as 10 machine guns.[citation needed] However, the plot was discovered on 21 April 1916 and the weapons were lost when the ship carrying them, the Aud, was scuttled to prevent the arms from falling into the hands of the British. should have been WWI not WWII |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 2:49:56 PM
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Posted: 4/30/2012 2:51:52 PM
Originally Posted By ar154all:
WW I-1914-1918 I dont think there would have been a difference. |
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Posted: 4/30/2012 3:04:51 PM
with the added havoc that they made for the Brits and the havoc they could have with more supplies would that have made it last longer
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Posted: 4/30/2012 3:46:40 PM
Hitler was in WWI. He 'rebuilt' the Ger .mil to never let Germans feel that again. I doubt that any guns the Irish gave them in WWI, would have had any bearing on any action in WWII. If Hitler wanted anything from Ireland, he'd just taken it (Ireland, I mean).
Why would the Irish want to help that asshole anyway, they are not arian and soon would have seen the inside of an oven anyhow... |
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Posted: 5/4/2012 7:41:30 PM
I think the Irish would have used the weapons...period. It might have spead up the revolt.
Keep in mind, they wanted their country back, but they themselves were devided. |
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Posted: 5/8/2012 6:20:45 AM
Despite deValera hating the British pretty much with every fiber of his being, and the Irish government going out of it's way to say mean things about the British, actual Irish policy in WW2 recognized that Hitler was worse. Despite not allowing the Allies to actually base ships or aircraft in Eire, pretty much all their actions under neutrality were heavily weighed towards us, for example interning German aircrew but releasing Allied, allowing limited passage of Allied aircraft and basically ignoring infrequent violations of Irish territory by lost Allied ships and aircraft while promptly broadcasting the location of U-boats and German planes.
Ironically, but with a certain logic, once the Allies were clearly going to win, the Irish took a more hardline anti-British line, pretty much from mid-42 on, although once again this was restricted more to words than deeds. It didn't really help that Churchill was under the mistaken assumption that the Irish would be happy to be back in the British Empire in exchange for getting Ulster, and that's ignoring how monumentally unpopular that would have been in Ulster. This culminated with the official condolences given to the German ambassador when Hitler died, something that pissed off the Allies but did absolutely nothing to help Germany. In any case, the Irish did a lot of annoying things during WW2, but it's hard to imagine a more anti-British PM than de Valera, and even he was unwilling to do anything to materially harm the Allied war effort, even in 1940 when it looked to many observers like Hitler could win. In any case, in WW1, the extra weapons might have allowed the Easter Rising to spread outside Dublin, and certainly would have made the Civil War afterwards more bloody, but would not have made any significant difference in WW1, as the Easter Rebellion was so poorly managed (by both sides) and the British had over 16,000 troops in Ireland even before the Rising. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 12:38:03 AM
If we are talking about the Easter Rebellion, the extra guns would not have made a difference. The Rebellion was so poorly planned and had so little support from the population it was doomed from the outset. Several of the leaders knew it wouldn't work going into it, but did it anyway.
WWII: Still no difference. Ireland knew Hitler was worse as stated above. Ireland also had lots of ties to the United States. Hard to imagine Ireland working against the U.S. That would have cost a lot of people a lot of money. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:20:10 AM
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Despite deValera hating the British pretty much with every fiber of his being, and the Irish government going out of it's way to say mean things about the British, actual Irish policy in WW2 recognized that Hitler was worse. Despite not allowing the Allies to actually base ships or aircraft in Eire, pretty much all their actions under neutrality were heavily weighed towards us, for example interning German aircrew but releasing Allied, allowing limited passage of Allied aircraft and basically ignoring infrequent violations of Irish territory by lost Allied ships and aircraft while promptly broadcasting the location of U-boats and German planes. I could have sworn the Irish interned both German and Allied aircrews for the duration of the war. I've read a few tales of British aircrew members downed over Ireland, being captured, and having to escape covertly back to Britain. Granted, they could got to a pub and wander around town, but the Irish were not going to let them leave the country. Did this policy change as the war progressed? |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:39:51 AM
Originally Posted By lew:
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Despite deValera hating the British pretty much with every fiber of his being, and the Irish government going out of it's way to say mean things about the British, actual Irish policy in WW2 recognized that Hitler was worse. Despite not allowing the Allies to actually base ships or aircraft in Eire, pretty much all their actions under neutrality were heavily weighed towards us, for example interning German aircrew but releasing Allied, allowing limited passage of Allied aircraft and basically ignoring infrequent violations of Irish territory by lost Allied ships and aircraft while promptly broadcasting the location of U-boats and German planes. I could have sworn the Irish interned both German and Allied aircrews for the duration of the war. I've read a few tales of British aircrew members downed over Ireland, being captured, and having to escape covertly back to Britain. Granted, they could got to a pub and wander around town, but the Irish were not going to let them leave the country. Did this policy change as the war progressed? As a neutral country, this was international law. They had to intern all combatants, regardless. Same for Switzerland, same for Sweden. The Swedes did alot of things to help out against Hitler as well. When it comes to combatants though, they had to intern them according to international law. Heck the Soviet Union had to intern any US crews that landed there if the US planes were fighting the Japanese, because the Soviets were technically neutral in the Pacific until near the end. Even while US pilots were ferrying planes and supplies to the same Soviet airfields. Helping the Soviets fight the Germans was considered one thing, and fighting the Japanese had to be considered something else under international law. After the USSR went to war with Japan, the crews were turned over to the USA. |
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Posted: 6/5/2012 12:46:10 PM
I'm aware of the official policy, and the global examples, but the question still stands: Did the Irish change their policy on retaining Allied internees as the war progressed and an Allied victory look ever more certain?
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Posted: 6/6/2012 4:55:49 PM
Originally Posted By lew:
I'm aware of the official policy, and the global examples, but the question still stands: Did the Irish change their policy on retaining Allied internees as the war progressed and an Allied victory look ever more certain? American airmen were returned straight away. British and other allied were usually given the opportunity to get on a train to Belfast. Its hard to find good sources on internment of airmen during the war. Ive heard of one case where a British pilot made it across the border to Belfast and was promptly turned around by the British athorities so as to avoid offending the Irish government which is a bit .
From what sources there are if you were going to be a prisoner during the war Ireland was a pretty great place to be one. Only if you were a foreigner though, being an actual Irish military prisoner was not an enjoyable affair. The detainees had a pretty decent standard of living in the Curragh camp. The camp guards had rifles but no ammo for them, which gives you an idea of how much freedem they were allowed. They were given day passes to go to Dublin from time to time. Visits to the local pubs were a weekly affair. Some detainees completed university courses. The allies and Germans got interned in the same general area which caused a bit of trouble between them occasionally. Ive heard of one occasion where the British airmen put on a dance which the local girls were of course all welcome. When the Germans decided to attend a bit of a rucus occurred. Several of the Germans ended up marrying local girls and stayed in Ireland, or returned to Germany after the war and then came back to Ireland. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 5:11:20 PM
[Last Edit: 6/6/2012 5:11:34 PM by Schmigs]
Also worth a bit of a read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_W |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 9:58:39 PM
Thanks Schmigs!
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