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Posted: 3/1/2011 12:56:43 AM
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 1:05:21 AM by paddymurphy]
Lots of reasons most all ready covered:
1. British arrogance, particularly AT THE CABINET LEVEL. General Gage requested reinforcement to the tune of 20,000 troops in 1774. He was given 1100 marines and had issues dealing with the navy in their use. Additionally, 700 of those did not arrive until April 1775. 2. Logistics. Supplying a force across a 6 week (one way) weather dependent supply line is not easy. WHile you can scavenge food, powder ball and tents are an entirely different proposition in a country devoid of powder mills. 3. Decentralization. Their was no leader of the rebellion. A fact commanders on the ground understood but politicians in England could not. Arresting Sam Adams and John Hancock was pointless as neither was irreplacable. 4. Intelligence. Whiel the British had their coups (most notably Patriot leader and front man Dr. Church), the intelligence war was the one place Washington was able to out do the British. 5. Divided loyalties. Britian was not a monolithic culture focused on destroying the rebellion. The term sons of liberty was in common usage in England. It was adopted by the patriots after a member of parliment referred to them as true sons of liberty (IIRC it was after the outrage/protests over the stamp act). Additionally, Gage was a member of the Whig party and was very uncomfortable and periodically refused to carry out orders he thought were contrary to what he thoguht was legal. The final example was Genral Howell (I think might have been Clinton). As a member of parliament he was opposed to military invovement. However, when ordered to go he went. 6. Blind fucking luck. Washington made huge blunders that had the British capitilized on them would have ended the war long before it started. 7. Sorry, the tactics of rifleman while important at times were NOT the reason we won the war. That did not happen until the Continental Army was trained and equipped properly. All the sniping in the world will not hold a town against a concerted bayonet charge by trained men. That takes men willing to stand. 8. The colonists were largely on the defensive. In the first three years of the war, the majority of Colonial offenses failed miserably. Simply put the militia would not stand on open ground. Give them a wall and they would hold. Open field not so much. 8. Blind luck two. THe British failure to capitalize on Washingtons blunders. The best example being the near loss of the entire army at New York. 9. The dutch. They were the first country to recognize the United States(An Island Governor did it with out approval of the government). They were also the primary source of critical materials (most notably gun powder) until the French became involved. They also loaned us millions of pounds during the war. 10. French and to a lesser extent Spainish aid and participation. Without it we would have lost. You can not win a war with a trickle of smuggled gun powder. 11. Charity. The Congress borrowed tens of thousands of dollars from wealthy citizens. And failed to pay most of it back. Including members of Congress. 12. Terror. The cabinet in London believed loyalists would greatly aid their cause and serve under arms for the crown. While it happened some, it was no where near the level expected. Largely due to terror tactics of whig neighbors. 13. Communications. It is hard to manage a war from the cabinet on a 12 week turn about. 14. Money. The British Crown ran up major debt fighting the war. Some books I would recommend: Signing Their Lives Away, brief essays on the 55 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. First Salute by Barbara Tuchman Paul Reveeres Ride (IIRC Hackett-Fischer was the author) Patriots, the men who started a revolution Struggle for Power by Draper Almost a Miracle. A well written, very detailed account of the Revolutionary war. 1776 was highly recommended. While their is some good anecdotal/personal information I did not find else where, I found it to be a tough read. There are a ton of other books some sitting at home waiting for me to get to them but I won't recommended them if I haven't read them. |
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Posted: 3/3/2011 10:29:49 PM
British supply problems were the problem. Obstacle of the time. No wireless communicaltion. Information only traveled as fast as a horse.
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Posted: 3/5/2011 9:24:04 AM
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
Lots of reasons most all ready covered: 1. British arrogance, particularly AT THE CABINET LEVEL. General Gage requested reinforcement to the tune of 20,000 troops in 1774. He was given 1100 marines and had issues dealing with the navy in their use. Additionally, 700 of those did not arrive until April 1775. 2. Logistics. Supplying a force across a 6 week (one way) weather dependent supply line is not easy. WHile you can scavenge food, powder ball and tents are an entirely different proposition in a country devoid of powder mills. 3. Decentralization. Their was no leader of the rebellion. A fact commanders on the ground understood but politicians in England could not. Arresting Sam Adams and John Hancock was pointless as neither was irreplacable. 4. Intelligence. Whiel the British had their coups (most notably Patriot leader and front man Dr. Church), the intelligence war was the one place Washington was able to out do the British. 5. Divided loyalties. Britian was not a monolithic culture focused on destroying the rebellion. The term sons of liberty was in common usage in England. It was adopted by the patriots after a member of parliment referred to them as true sons of liberty (IIRC it was after the outrage/protests over the stamp act). Additionally, Gage was a member of the Whig party and was very uncomfortable and periodically refused to carry out orders he thought were contrary to what he thoguht was legal. The final example was Genral Howell (I think might have been Clinton). As a member of parliament he was opposed to military invovement. However, when ordered to go he went. 6. Blind fucking luck. Washington made huge blunders that had the British capitilized on them would have ended the war long before it started. 7. Sorry, the tactics of rifleman while important at times were NOT the reason we won the war. That did not happen until the Continental Army was trained and equipped properly. All the sniping in the world will not hold a town against a concerted bayonet charge by trained men. That takes men willing to stand. 8. The colonists were largely on the defensive. In the first three years of the war, the majority of Colonial offenses failed miserably. Simply put the militia would not stand on open ground. Give them a wall and they would hold. Open field not so much. 8. Blind luck two. THe British failure to capitalize on Washingtons blunders. The best example being the near loss of the entire army at New York. 9. The dutch. They were the first country to recognize the United States(An Island Governor did it with out approval of the government). They were also the primary source of critical materials (most notably gun powder) until the French became involved. They also loaned us millions of pounds during the war. 10. French and to a lesser extent Spainish aid and participation. Without it we would have lost. You can not win a war with a trickle of smuggled gun powder. 11. Charity. The Congress borrowed tens of thousands of dollars from wealthy citizens. And failed to pay most of it back. Including members of Congress. 12. Terror. The cabinet in London believed loyalists would greatly aid their cause and serve under arms for the crown. While it happened some, it was no where near the level expected. Largely due to terror tactics of whig neighbors. 13. Communications. It is hard to manage a war from the cabinet on a 12 week turn about. 14. Money. The British Crown ran up major debt fighting the war. Some books I would recommend: Signing Their Lives Away, brief essays on the 55 men who signed the Declaration of Independence. First Salute by Barbara Tuchman Paul Reveeres Ride (IIRC Hackett-Fischer was the author) Patriots, the men who started a revolution Struggle for Power by Draper Almost a Miracle. A well written, very detailed account of the Revolutionary war. 1776 was highly recommended. While their is some good anecdotal/personal information I did not find else where, I found it to be a tough read. There are a ton of other books some sitting at home waiting for me to get to them but I won't recommended them if I haven't read them. I didn't mean to imply it was why we won the war. It was, however, the reason we won the Battle of Cowpens. |
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Posted: 3/5/2011 12:06:11 PM
Originally Posted By Coltcrazy:
I didn't mean to imply it was why we won the war. It was, however, the reason we won the Battle of Cowpens. Im not convinced that there were that many rifleman in the militia at Cowpens, Cowpens was a long way from PA, the VA and NC rifle culture was just getting on its feet. If I was a betting man I would say that the majority of the milita at cowpens had smoothbores. Riflemen were the cool elite of the Contienental Army that is without a doubt. They did have an impact on on the American Martial material culture. Hunting shirts and Rifle barrel guns became American Icons, but it was after the Revolution. Look at Nick Stoner, a boy fifer in a NY regiment during the war, due to the influence of Morgan's/Parr's rifles being stationed in Scoharie, Stoner was post war able to buy a rifle and go on in local folklore to be a rifle toting NDN fighter that was a major influence on JF Cooper and is probably the basis for Natty Bumpo. By the 18teens they are making rifles in Maine and all over New England, the middle states, Caintucky and yes even the deep south, but it was not rifle country till much later....,. |
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Posted: 3/5/2011 2:01:22 PM
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Originally Posted By Coltcrazy:
I didn't mean to imply it was why we won the war. It was, however, the reason we won the Battle of Cowpens. Im not convinced that there were that many rifleman in the militia at Cowpens, Cowpens was a long way from PA, the VA and NC rifle culture was just getting on its feet. If I was a betting man I would say that the majority of the milita at cowpens had smoothbores. Riflemen were the cool elite of the Contienental Army that is without a doubt. They did have an impact on on the American Martial material culture. Hunting shirts and Rifle barrel guns became American Icons, but it was after the Revolution. Look at Nick Stoner, a boy fifer in a NY regiment during the war, due to the influence of Morgan's/Parr's rifles being stationed in Scoharie, Stoner was post war able to buy a rifle and go on in local folklore to be a rifle toting NDN fighter that was a major influence on JF Cooper and is probably the basis for Natty Bumpo. By the 18teens they are making rifles in Maine and all over New England, the middle states, Caintucky and yes even the deep south, but it was not rifle country till much later....,. Have you ever read an account of the battle? |
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Posted: 3/6/2011 1:29:28 AM
Originally Posted By Coltcrazy:
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Originally Posted By Coltcrazy:
I didn't mean to imply it was why we won the war. It was, however, the reason we won the Battle of Cowpens. Im not convinced that there were that many rifleman in the militia at Cowpens, Cowpens was a long way from PA, the VA and NC rifle culture was just getting on its feet. If I was a betting man I would say that the majority of the milita at cowpens had smoothbores. Riflemen were the cool elite of the Contienental Army that is without a doubt. They did have an impact on on the American Martial material culture. Hunting shirts and Rifle barrel guns became American Icons, but it was after the Revolution. Look at Nick Stoner, a boy fifer in a NY regiment during the war, due to the influence of Morgan's/Parr's rifles being stationed in Scoharie, Stoner was post war able to buy a rifle and go on in local folklore to be a rifle toting NDN fighter that was a major influence on JF Cooper and is probably the basis for Natty Bumpo. By the 18teens they are making rifles in Maine and all over New England, the middle states, Caintucky and yes even the deep south, but it was not rifle country till much later....,. Have you ever read an account of the battle? Nope never, Im totally talking out my 4th point of contact
Morgan had somewhere around between 120 and 150 sharpshooters mixed VA and Georgia folks, This is where anyone with a rifle would most likely have been. Even if all 150 had rifles, out of a total force of about 1500, thats what percentage? |
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Posted: 3/8/2011 11:59:16 PM
Morgan had, at the most, 150 riflemen at Cowpens. The riflemen were part of a Morgan's winning team, but did not by themselves win the battle for him. Morgan's shrewd tactics and his taking of every disadvantage and turning it into an advantage had a huge part.
His force was composed largely of militia who were unreliable. Riflemen were known to scatter when unsupported by light infantry (and he had no trained light infantry with him as he did when he had Maj. Dearborn's light infantry at Saratoga). His fought with his back to a river, so if he was defeated, there was no retreat. Banastre Tarleton, his opponent, was highly feared by the colonists and his British Legion had a fearsome reputation and seemed invincible (it had lost very few battles including Hanging Rock (Aug. 6, 1780), Williamson's Plantation (July 11, 1780) and Charlotte (Sept. 26, 1780). Tarleton also had British regulars with him. Morgan understood what Tarleton would do and how his men would respond. He picked his position because he knew that by allowing himself to be trapped, his men would be forced to stand and fight. He deployed his riflemen as his skirmish line to pick off officers so as to demoralize his opponent. They were to fall behind the militia who were to deliver two volleys that were to further demoralize the enemy. The militia was then to retire behind the (discharged) continentals. |
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Posted: 3/9/2011 1:33:30 AM
We won, we beat the Brits, only to be destroyed by a british subject 230+ years later. Ironic huh?
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Posted: 3/9/2011 1:35:14 AM
Originally Posted By flightsimmer:
We won because God answered the prayers of the righteous by intervening spiritually at key times in the war. God doesn't pick sides. |
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Posted: 3/12/2011 7:35:07 AM
Originally Posted By Coltcrazy:
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
Lots of reasons most all ready covered: I didn't mean to imply it was why we won the war. It was, however, the reason we won the Battle of Cowpens. I was not addressing your comment specifically, sorry if you got that impression. Just the false belief many hold that the rifleman and his tactics were a big reason in why we won the war in general. Taking Lexington and Concord for an example many (probably most) did not have actual rifles they had a variety of arms ranging from some with rifles, to various muskets and fowling pieces. What they did have: 1. LOTS of bodies. Paul Revere and others sent out the warning early on. Many militiamen were en route well before dawn, singly in small groups and in whole companies. While the tactics increased the Regular casualties and decreased milita casualties, I submit when 5 figures (numbers vary) worth of pissed off people are coming after them the 800 are probably in a world of hurt. Especially when other factors are considered. 2. Fatigue. The regulars were woken after a couple hours sleep, played hurry up and wait for hours, getting a late start. And then conducted a 19 mile forced march starting in a swamp and continuing on muddy roads. 3. Intelligence failure. The militia had a better idea of the plan than most of the officers carrying it out. No one knows for sure, but most agree(based largely on circumstantial evidence but it is convincing none the less) the plan was given to the whigs by General Gages wife (who was a colonist by birth). 4. Equipment. The Regualrs uniforms could have been designed by the Marque De Sade. Particularly the boots––they did not have left and right boots. They had square toe boots they alternated from left to right daily. They looked bitching but I would rather hump a 80 pound lg alice pack in the old waffle pattern boots every day for a week than do one 10 miler in the British uniform with only the haversack. 5. Planning. Concord was not the first raid by General Gages forces on powder stores in MA. They had conducted others some successful some not in the preceding months. The Committees for Safety expected it to continue and planned accordingly (which is why Gage did not inform most of his officers of the plan or their target.) |
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Posted: 3/12/2011 11:07:53 AM
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
4. Equipment. The Regualrs uniforms could have been designed by the Marque De Sade. Particularly the boots––they did not have left and right boots. They had square toe boots they alternated from left to right daily. They looked bitching but I would rather hump a 80 pound lg alice pack in the old waffle pattern boots every day for a week than do one 10 miler in the British uniform with only the haversack. They were shoes, not boots, and they did have left and rights. The straight last and switching them daily is a Reenactorism that is not supported by any orderly book entry, and most importantly not by the huge Cashe of Brit Army shoes recovered from Fort Ligoner PA. Ive got a good number of days living, working, marching ect in 18th Century kit, all 4 seasons, and it works just fine. In fact the more you get into this, any issues with clothing and equipment are more often than not self induced by folks reenacting reenactors who never saw anything other than a xerox of a xerox of a grainy BW photo in a book once.. Also Haversack is a food bag to keep the greasy salt pork off of your extra clothing and other gear that was carried in the knapsac. A haversack is not the catch all bag that it became in the Civil War, nor the combat Murse of many/most reenactors. |
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Posted: 3/13/2011 11:36:22 PM
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Originally Posted By paddymurphy:
4. Equipment. The Regualrs uniforms could have been designed by the Marque De Sade. Particularly the boots––they did not have left and right boots. They had square toe boots they alternated from left to right daily. They looked bitching but I would rather hump a 80 pound lg alice pack in the old waffle pattern boots every day for a week than do one 10 miler in the British uniform with only the haversack. They were shoes, not boots, and they did have left and rights. The straight last and switching them daily is a Reenactorism that is not supported by any orderly book entry, and most importantly not by the huge Cashe of Brit Army shoes recovered from Fort Ligoner PA. I am going off of the book Paul Revere's Ride by David Hackett-Fischer and other similar accounts. Do you have any links I can check out to reference this? I googled this but can't find specific info though I may order a couple books from Ft ligoniers website. Also, since Ft Ligonier was abandoned at the end of the French and Indian Wars is it possible that the cache of goods was a mix of regular and militia and/or that the issue footgear. Ive got a good number of days living, working, marching ect in 18th Century kit, all 4 seasons, and it works just fine. In fact the more you get into this, any issues with clothing and equipment are more often than not self induced by folks reenacting reenactors who never saw anything other than a xerox of a xerox of a grainy BW photo in a book once.. I am not asking to be a smart ass but to increase my knowledge base. Actual accurate reproductions of correct gear(and gear as issued to the regulars) or as many re-enactors do, an outwardly/cosmetically similar but using better materials, putting modern insoles in boots, wearing it so it is comfortable as opposed to the actual way it was worn). I have done re-enacting for different periods and while a lot of the foot gear looks correct from the outside it's all custom fitted and/or Dr. Scholls on the inside. Also Haversack is a food bag to keep the greasy salt pork off of your extra clothing and other gear that was carried in the knapsac. A haversack is not the catch all bag that it became in the Civil War, nor the combat Murse of many/most reenactors. I know. My specific understanding of the load out was a haversack with rations (specifically navy rations to help orevent the rebels from discovering the movement a head of time this caused a two hour delay in the regulars march which caused a two hour delay) and ammunition as opposed to full backs or their equivalent. |
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Posted: 3/14/2011 5:45:57 AM
Paddy,
Im what some call a Progressive reenactor. I try my best to get all my gear, not just reasonable facsimile, but actually made of the proper materials, in the proper way. I fixiate on things like linings, threads and stiches per inch ect. Some shortcuts are made, the wool for uniforms comes from the same place in england that was making it for the army in the period, it matches their set patters from the time, for weight, feel ect but is woven with a machine, and dyed with modern dyes. But other than that....... My shoes, when I wear any come from a guy in Canada, Robert Land. Im more of a moccasin type guy, and they are made with mostly braintan deer, Veg tanned cowhide on occasions. My rifle barrel is steel vice iron, my linen is 60inch wide woven instead of 30 so I have a felled seam on my shirts that most folks didnt have in the period because it was a selvage on each side. I acknowledge these as farb, but right now some of those things just cant be fixed. You know the actual process to hot dip sheet iron has been lost, really no one knows how to do it, so we all use sheet steel that has been dipped in a tank of tin, but its a best guess..... Yes if you shop at some of the "Reenactor Wal Mart's" your getting modern made gear, that looks olde tyme.... Cotton canvas ect. The oznibrig you buy at Joann's is not the Osnibrig of the 18th century. As for books: Archaeological Investigation of Fort Ligonier, 1960 – 1965 The best and at 8 bucks, worth 50 times that.... Now for the actual regimental orders for the 10th Regiment, the original orderly book is in the Clements Library. Im more NY Frontier and Kentucky oriented with my reenacting, so I dont have a transcription/copy, but I have requested one....... |
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Posted: 4/2/2011 6:55:28 PM
People have written books about this; I'm not sure what we could cover completely in one thread.
George was an idiot and seriously misjudged colonial sentiments for years. Long resupply routes for materiel and information hindered Englands efforts. Franklin did a kickass job in Europe rallying support for the colonies. |
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Posted: 4/11/2011 11:42:07 PM
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Paddy, Im what some call a Progressive reenactor. I try my best to get all my gear, not just reasonable facsimile, but actually made of the proper materials, in the proper way. I fixiate on things like linings, threads and stiches per inch ect. Some shortcuts are made, the wool for uniforms comes from the same place in england that was making it for the army in the period, it matches their set patters from the time, for weight, feel ect but is woven with a machine, and dyed with modern dyes. But other than that....... My shoes, when I wear any come from a guy in Canada, Robert Land. Im more of a moccasin type guy, and they are made with mostly braintan deer, Veg tanned cowhide on occasions. My rifle barrel is steel vice iron, my linen is 60inch wide woven instead of 30 so I have a felled seam on my shirts that most folks didnt have in the period because it was a selvage on each side. I acknowledge these as farb, but right now some of those things just cant be fixed. You know the actual process to hot dip sheet iron has been lost, really no one knows how to do it, so we all use sheet steel that has been dipped in a tank of tin, but its a best guess..... Yes if you shop at some of the "Reenactor Wal Mart's" your getting modern made gear, that looks olde tyme.... Cotton canvas ect. The oznibrig you buy at Joann's is not the Osnibrig of the 18th century. This I know. I have spent a few hours looking at various wools (well watching my exwife sort through them and mumbble incomprehensible crap) in out of the way fabric stores. And spending a new scope on 10 yards of the crap. As for books: Archaeological Investigation of Fort Ligonier, 1960 – 1965 The best and at 8 bucks, worth 50 times that.... Now for the actual regimental orders for the 10th Regiment, the original orderly book is in the Clements Library. Im more NY Frontier and Kentucky oriented with my reenacting, so I dont have a transcription/copy, but I have requested one....... Thanks for the info. I may have to check out a couple of the books but it will be a while as my reading back log is pretty long. |
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Posted: 4/13/2011 11:02:43 PM
number of reasons.
1. home court advantage can't be overstated. they knew the terrain and to a degree had more control over when/where forces would meet. 2. logistics. the british were fighting a war an ocean away from england which back then was MUCH more of a hurdle than it is now (obviously) however thats not to say that the americans didn't have problems of their own procuring the goods they needed, hell george washington spent more time arguing with congress to give him more resources than he did with his troops. 3. motivation: pretty self explanatory, not a whole lot to elaborate on here. 4. unconventional warfare: the british held very tight to the conventions of warfare at the time, it didn't take long before the Americans learned that going muzzle to muzzle with the british in open fields was only going to go so far, other tactics were needed. ambushes, the beginnings of small unit tactics as well as the use of marksman to engage high value targets 6. british arrogance. plain and simple they underestimated the resolve, strength and the numbers of our forces, the British never committed a sufficient number of troops until it was too late. 7. french support: it's a bitter pill for some to swallow but that simple fact is that without the support of the french the chances of us winning the war were slim at best. now the land based support was important to be sure but even more important was the naval support. The US simply didn't know what to do with what little navy they had, heard of the castine expedition? the short version is that it was the biggest naval disaster for the US until pearl harbor. 8. Leadership. now some immediately think of George Washington and yes he was indeed an excellent leader, he was charismatic and held the army together when things got rough, he however was a terrible military leader however he was willing to deffer to other generals. 9. cost benefit analysis: huh? while pride played into it a fair bit, at a certain point with the cost in both blood and money mounting the british had to look at what they stood to gain relative to what they stood to lose. and in the end they just decided the american colonies just weren't worth the trouble to hold on to for what the British gained from us (which was primarily wood and grain) |
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Posted: 4/14/2011 2:03:58 AM
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
4. unconventional warfare: the british held very tight to the conventions of warfare at the time, it didn't take long before the Americans learned that going muzzle to muzzle with the british in open fields was only going to go so far, other tactics were needed. ambushes, the beginnings of small unit tactics as well as the use of marksman to engage high value targets Come on now, Was it Von Stuben that was so crucial in our being able to do small unit tactics? That battle at Wyoming, you know the one where the American forces formed up in ranks on the edge of a field and marched towards the Brits hiding behind trees, That worked out so well right? |
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Posted: 4/14/2011 8:23:41 AM
Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
Originally Posted By hawaiinate:
4. unconventional warfare: the british held very tight to the conventions of warfare at the time, it didn't take long before the Americans learned that going muzzle to muzzle with the british in open fields was only going to go so far, other tactics were needed. ambushes, the beginnings of small unit tactics as well as the use of marksman to engage high value targets Come on now, Was it Von Stuben that was so crucial in our being able to do small unit tactics? That battle at Wyoming, you know the one where the American forces formed up in ranks on the edge of a field and marched towards the Brits hiding behind trees, That worked out so well right? didn't say they always used unconventional tactics, nor did I say they always worked. just a point worth bringing up, thats all. |
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Posted: 4/17/2011 11:45:54 PM
Originally Posted By Silly_Look:
We outlasted them. Time and distance was on our side. One of the best quotes I've heard about the war was, "All that Washington had to do was not lose." England had to transport men and material across the Atlantic Ocean to prosecute the war. Communication between England and North America cost them very dearly. |
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Posted: 5/22/2011 11:01:53 PM
America became a nation because they had more heart. They (we) had a reason to fight and a reason to win - moreover, a reason not to lose. Tactics are overblown as a reason for the American victory since much of the fighting was still rooted in conventional methods. Not all of it, but not so much that it explains the victory.
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Posted: 6/17/2011 4:58:11 PM
[Last Edit: 7/7/2011 4:53:50 PM by antiUN]
Originally Posted By zutmeloda2003:
How in your opinion did the Americans win the war? was it mostly because of American commanding/will , or was it arrogance of British? what the british brought to the table. do as we say,you will not have a say in matter of your life,proprty,taxs,life,and happines,no voice,no right,no weapons..a few people who know best will make all you choice for you..(sound familiar) what we fought for freedom to speak,vote,own what you please a right to proctect your rights, a right to have say in the matter the affect you...for surly death would be better then to live under the rule of a tyrant |
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Posted: 6/18/2011 12:30:45 AM
Originally Posted By antiUN:
do as we say,you will not have a say in matter of your life,proprty,taxs,life,and happines,no voice,no right,no weapons..a few people who know best will make all you choice for you..(sound familiar) what the americas fought for freedom to speak,vote,own what you please a right to proctect your rights, a right to have say in the matter the affect you...for surly death would be better then to live under the rule of a tyrant No, it doesn't sound familiar, because you still have a voice in your government. Nor were the colonists as universally interested in fighting to the death as you infer. |
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Posted: 6/23/2011 9:08:41 AM
A brit told me once that the US won because the war simply wasn't profitable for Britain and that they let the rebels win. They were more concerned with their plantation colonies in the Caribbean than the 13 colonies because they were worth more.
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Posted: 6/23/2011 9:22:01 AM
Originally Posted By brucers99:
We won because we didn't try to control territory (which we were largely unable to do when we tried). Instead, we maintained a successful guerrilla insurgency while the enemy was fighting on foreign soil with extended supply lines. We maintained that status until the British finally screwed up and we were able to win a few unexpected victories. By that point, it simply wasn't worth it any more and Britain had lost the will to fight. Does any of this sound familiar? It's been a workable strategy for thousands of years because the will to hold on to some far flung backwater no matter the cost is ever so rarely there. Not to mention that it was not terribly popular in the first place to send British troops over here to kill British men and women. |
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Posted: 7/7/2011 4:55:05 PM
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Originally Posted By antiUN:
do as we say,you will not have a say in matter of your life,proprty,taxs,life,and happines,no voice,no right,no weapons..a few people who know best will make all you choice for you..(sound familiar) what the americas fought for freedom to speak,vote,own what you please a right to proctect your rights, a right to have say in the matter the affect you...for surly death would be better then to live under the rule of a tyrant No, it doesn't sound familiar, because you still have a voice in your government. Nor were the colonists as universally interested in fighting to the death as you infer. that voice is getting smaller and smaller... |
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