AR15 upper that is 11.5" cannot be classified as a rifle because it is below 16", but what are the legalities of having one? If I put one on my lower is it now just considered a pistol, and covered by the laws regarding handguns? Any info on this would be appreciated. And any experiences relating to a short barreled AR(below 14.5") would be good info for me.

Thanks.

If you take a legal rifle, and just put a barrel shorter than 16" on it, you don't have a rifle, you have a crime.  However, if you apply for and receive a tax stamp ($200) for a short-barreled rifle, you can put a barrel of any length on the rifle.  From that day forward, you will always own a "short-barreled rifle."  It can't be converted back to a non-registered firearm.

If you really want a short barreled rifle, be wary of the 11.5" barrels.  The shorter length will really drop muzzle velocities and will certainly affect performance.  Even the military is using 14.5" as the minimum for the M4, which doesn't give up as much.

With all this said, check with local, state, and federal laws before doing ANYTHING.  A good dealer can help with questions and paperwork.

Texas should be a SBR state, contact [email][email protected][/email].

You can register your existing rifle lower as "SBR" and use any long or short upper you choose. You do not have to have a buttstock. If you later choose, you can write ATF and ask to remove the SBR from the register, must wait for letter, then you can sell as a regular rifle with a 16" or longer barrel. The bad part of that deal is you cannot go back to SBR without applying again on the Form 1 and $200 tax again.
You decide, I have an UZI that been SBR for 13yr and an AR for 3yr(7.5", 11.5", 12" and 20"), owned it also 13 yr.

Please DO NOT follow this advice (see below)...

> if you dont want to reg as a SBR($200)
> just go out and buy a new ar15 lower that
> has never been made in to a rifle or had
> a but stock put on, and have the ffl trensfer > it to you as a hand gun. if you need any more > help with regestring as a SBR post in M16
> form

No offense to 'ar15bubba' but DO NOT follow this advice - you could go directly to jail
(or fine, seizure, negotiated plea agreement, etc. - Fed atty's choice du jour).

This is a violation of the '94 AW ban ("Crime Bill"). You'd be constructing a postban assault weapon since it's a combo of several factors: (1) it's a pistol (2) the mag well is forward and separate of the pistol grip and (3) it will weigh more than the prescribed 50oz limit.

This is why you don't see any new AR pistols on the market other than Oly Arm's "Swiss cheese" model or the Professional Ordnance "Carbon 15" carbon fiber variants: both co's had to take severe engineering measures to keep the weight under 50oz.  

If you really really want an 11.5"bbl in TX go the registered SBR route.  Ballistic performance sucks though, and you're better off with a 14.5" bbl or 16" bbl.  And if you have a 14.5" bbl, a brake (on a postban) or flash hider (when on a preban lower) if pinned and welded will meet the 16" legal limit.

-Bill Wiese
-San Mateo, CA

I had an 11.5" with a 5.5 AK brake welded on and I hated it.  Accuracy SUCKS!  I traded it out after using it one time for less than 100 rounds.  It is not worth the time, effort, money, effectiveness, etc...  

Who care's about "looking cool" if that is your goal anyway?

I don't think he's talking about using a 5.5" brake on this.  A SBR does "handle" better in close quarters, and it seems to me that a 11.5" AR would be on similar footing to the ever-popular subguns.

It may not be the best all-around configuration, but for indoor distances, I think it would be hard to beat.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with registering a SBR.  If you're going to tie the rifle down in NFA paperwork, you might as well spend $5K and get a registered machine gun.  A machine gun will be easier to sell, and will appreciate.  I think a SBR would be more of a white elephant that will be difficult to sell when you get bored with it.

Remember, the SBR is $200 to register, $200 to sell, plus $200 for the next guy to buy.  Why pay an extra $200 to buy a used SBR when you can make a new one cheaper.

Can someone please post the ballistics for a 11.5" and 7" bbl?

Thanks...

How about an AOW. An AOW is exempt from 922(v) AKA The 'Assault Weapons' Ban.

You would need a Virgin Lower. These are rather cheap. Buy one direct from the manufacturer, then either:

1) Send in a Form 1 with $200, Signature, CLEO, Fingerprints, etc. Wait several months, then Build the gun once you have the Approved Form 1 in hand.

or...

2) Contact a Class 2 Manufacturer and have him make the Gun for you, then transfer it on a Form 4 or is it a Form 3 (Not Sure) to you for $5. Downside is you will probably pay the difference or more to the C2 SOT. Upside, he marks it, it gets built immediately, and once you get your Approved Form 4, you can pick it up and use it the same day.

If you truly want an AR-15 Pistol, you will have to do alot of CRAP to get it.

1) Get A Pre-Ban AR-15 Type Pistol Lower.
2) Somehow Manufacture An AR-15 Pistol that weighs less than 50 Oz. This is impossible with an 11.5" Barrel. It may be doable with a 7.5" FAR-15 Type Barrel, Flat-Top Upper, and a Plastic Lower (Not sure how a Cavalry Arms Virgin Lower would be viewed if the stock were removed.)
3) Get a gogogadgets Lower as a Handgun, and assemble as you see fit (Non-NFA Of Course)
4) Go The AOW Route
5) Go The SBR Route
6) Go The MG Route
        A) Buy An RDIAS on a Form 4.
        B) Buy A Registered Lightning Link on a Form 4
        C) Buy A Registered M-16 on a Form 4
7) Wait Until September 14, 2004 And Build Yourself A Real AR-15 Pistol.

You can also make a post-ban AR pistol with standard components by permanently attaching the magazine.

1) Get a virgin AR-15 receiver and a pistol parts kit (special receiver extension/buffer tube that isn't threaded for a stock).

2) Get a nice 30 round magazine or maybe a beta-c mag, drill the lower and magazine for some retaining pins, and pin the magazine permanently in place.  ATF may require the pins to be welded over for legality - consult the ATF tech branch for their requirements.

3) Assemble as a pistol - if the magazine is not detachable, the 50oz weight limit doesn't apply.

4) practice at separating the upper and lower receivers to reload the magazine from the top with the rifle opened up (you may be able to modify a stripper clip guide to make this reloading a bit easier.