I want to make a regeistred SBR on a pre-ban AR15.  I have the Form 1 sent buy the ATF.  My local class three dealer tells me I cannot make an SBR on a pre-ban.  He said that I need to buy a new post-receiver from him and make it an SBR.  I don't know.  If I cannot make my pre-ban an SBR, I don't want an SBR.  Please let me know where to find this info.  I called the ATF today and got a different answer from each person I talked to.

Jay

Your dealer is full of CRAP!!!!!  He is just trying to get some money out of you.
You CAN do it just the way you are thinking without EVER dealing with him...

That's what I did.
[img]http://members.aol.com/bishop042/microthb.jpg[/img]


BISHOP

Bishop-

You are exactly right.  Just got my Form 1 back myself.  In fact, I have heard tell that one preserves the pre-ban features of the receiver if you use a pre-ban to make your SBR.  

Cardude-

You need a new dealer.  Second, never talk to the ATF, particularly a local agency.  I have talked to the NFA branch, but have found the information in James Bardwell's FAQ to be the most useful.  If you go to the machine gun discussion forum at subguns.com you can pose the question directly.  [url]http://subguns.biggerhammer.net/mgmsg.cgi[/url]

Oh, make the pre-ban an SBR.  It's more than $200 worth of fun!

charles

Cardude, I just went through this myself.  By all means build on your pre-ban lower that way you can have the tele-style stock, flash suppressor and bayonet lug.  If you build on post-ban.....well it can't have the goodies.  I'm dying to get my tax stamp so I can buy the upper!  After that I'm gonna get a can for it!  Woohoo!  This stuff is just too much fun.[:)]

Thanks for the reply guys.  Where do I find "James Bardwell's FAQ"?

Jay

Jay-

Right here:  [url]http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm[/url]

charles

Hey thanks.  I overlooked the "laws" section.
I want to see some pictures of your markings on your SBRs.  You know where I am  supposed to mark the manufacturer.
I also have many questions.
What if I want somebody like John Norrel or KKF to make it because I want his name on itinstead of mine.  Do I have to transfer from them to me using a Class Three FFL?
I read somewhere that if you have an AR pistol the markings had to be in a contrasting color on the receiver.  Is this applicable to SBRs?
Does anybody have any contact info on John Norrel?

Thanks Jay, I am already excited and I olny have four to six more months to go.

Take the lower to a trophy shop and have them do it like this: C.D. (cardude) B.F. Egypt.  Do this on the lower where the pistol grip will cover it up.  Never heard anything about any contrasting colors.

Cardude, no need to pay all kinds of transfers and fees, you will be registering the existing serial # on the Form 1, then after approval, install that 7,10, 11 or 14 inch barrel you choose to use.
As far as he "MAKER MARKINGS",,DO NOT FOLLOW
"CIB's" advice. The only thing you have to do, and it DOES NOT have to be in plain sight,,,,remove pistol grip,,,and engrave your
first initial,, last name,,city,,state on the large flat that pistol grip slips onto, re-install pistol grip,,,all done. If you have a C2 register, then you will have multiple transfers and cash handed out, can get up to $400 and some pay-ola for a C3 to hand the transfer if he decides to ask for handling it for you, DO IT yourself and use that $$ to buy your short upper. If you need help, call me, as I have (2) approved Form 1's.  HAL

Jay-

Don't have someone else make just to avoid having your name on the gun.  I mean, you are "J. Smith", how much more anonymous can you get?  Besides, it just adds to the cost.

Besides, put the marking on the pistol grip mounting area on the lower like SBR7/11 said.  I think I am going to do that now that the tax stamp is back.  I'll just use a simple engraving tool.

Think about it this way.  If you want the receiver marked with cool stuff, like multi-caliber, then have a professional engraver do it.  However, I just might want to de-reg and sell mine some day.  Noone and I mean noone takes off the pistol grip to see what is there.  This way you avoid having to refinish the gun, as would be necessary if you marked the visible part of the receiver.

charles

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Cardude, your dealer may have more facts than you think.
I called the ATF,NFA branch last week on this very subject. If you build a rifle the manufacture date is the day you assemble the rifle therefore you MUST assemble it in POST-BAN configuration ONLY, PERIOD. Even if the rec'r was a pre-ban you are "building" a different rifle so it is now a post-ban weapon. Just call and see 202-927-8330.
The only way to avoid this is to purchase a registered M-16 according to guy at ATF. You may disassemble a pre-ban and reassemble it the fashion it existed before Sept 14, 1994. If you change something you "built" a rifle forcing you to conform to post-ban requirements. Call the number and big brother will set you straight.

This has been answered before, in writing, by the ATF tech branch.  The letter is somewhere over in the ATF letter archive on cmu.edu.

Making an SBR from a pre-ban does NOT make it a post-ban.  It retains its pre-ban designation for purposes of the assault weapons bill and pre/post ban features.

That's wrong.  I answered this question last year on the old site; I think Bishop asked it.  Anyway, I got the letter from the Tech Branch confirming what I already knew: a pre-ban lower maintains it's pre-ban status despite a SBR config. per a Form 1 made after 9-14-94.  I faxed the letter to Bishop and can probably find it if anyone else wants to see it.

Also, there is NOTHING wrong with calling and/or writing ATF for questions.  If fact, it can be beneficial to develop a relationship with the local ATF guys.  I deal with them a lot as an attorney and have had no problems on the local level.  As with all professions, I'm sure there are some a$$holes out there, however, it does not hurt to try.