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Posted: 11/25/2001 8:37:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2001 8:47:23 PM EST by Pthfndr]
While looking for something regarding another thread I came across some conflicting info on this subject. It has generally been stated, and accepted, that when transporting a hangun in Caliban that it has to be locked in a case, in the trunk of the vehicle if possible, and [i]unloaded with ammo kept seperate[/i]. But below is the section from the penal code that says how to transport a concealable firearm. Am I blind or does it NOT say anything about being unloaded? Below that is the info for travelers from the DOJ Firearms website. Section 12025 and 12025.5 only say who / when it is legal / not legal to carry a concealed weapon but make no mention of being loaded or not. The H&W sections are about mental issues. 12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm: (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment. (2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container. (b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter. (c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. [i]From the DOJ website[/i] California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not within any of the classes excepted from firearm possession and who resides or is temporarily in California from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person if the firearm is [b]unloaded[/b] and in a locked container. The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.
Link Posted: 11/25/2001 8:56:00 PM EST
Continued: As I read this, and Section 12031, as long as I am not in a incorporated area (city, town, etc) and the UNincorporated area I am in does not specifically prohibit it, I can carry a loaded handgun in my car as long as it is locked. Not that it is without risk, as Section 12031, sub section 5, paragraphs I and II state, if someone saw my handgun case and called the cops they could arrest me even if the gun was now locked up in my safe at home if they "thought" I had been carrying it loaded. (5)(A) Notwithstanding paragraphs (2) and (3) of subdivision (a) of Section 836, a peace officer may make an arrest without a warrant: (i) When the person arrested has violated this section, although not in the officer's presence. (ii) Whenever the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested has violated this section, whether or not this section has, in fact, been violated.
Link Posted: 11/29/2001 4:34:41 PM EST
Pthfndr, Try this: CA penal code section 12001 (j) For purposes of Section 12023, a firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" whenever both the firearm and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from the firearm are in the immediate possession of the same person. NOTE: this appears to apply to the possessing with intent to commit a crime. How they would prove intent if you are just carrying is open for debate. 12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when he or she does any of the following: (1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person. (A) Both the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person and the unexpended ammunition capable of being discharged from that firearm are either in the immediate possession of the person or readily accessible to that person, or the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is loaded as defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12031. 12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory. (g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder. Not clear as a bell, but definitely jives with the training I have taken to date and what I have read elsewhere. The bottom line seems to be that it must be locked and unloaded, and the ammo must not be attached in any manner or readily accessible or in your direct possession. That is why locking the unloaded pistol in the trunk while the ammo is in the cab is ok. It is also why the locked pistol box is ok, if the pistol is unloaded as the pistol is not readily accessible. That's how I read th code, anyway. Ray
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