Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Log In

A valid email is required.
Password is required.
Posted: 10/24/2001 4:40:07 PM EST
Just wondering if anyone out their knows what the law is about owning a full auto sear, lightning link or other full auto mod part if it is not installed in the gun. I know a guy that had got a drop in for sale, but neither of us can nail down exactly what the law is regarding this. any help or advice? -Chopperdave
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 4:41:51 PM EST
Posetion of full auto parts as well as the semi auto firearm is enough to get charged with intent to construct. I am no lawer but this is how I understand it.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 4:44:33 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 4:44:34 PM EST
Thanks for the advice...I'll steer clear of that one! I thought that was the law, but have heard conflicting reports. -Chopperdave
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 4:45:30 PM EST
Here's what I found... [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/rulings.htm[/url]
27 CFR 179.11: MEANING OF TERMS The AR15 auto sear is a machinegun as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(b). ATF Rul. 81-4 The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has examined an auto sear known by various trade names including "AR15 Auto Sear," "Drop In Auto Sear," and "Auto Sear II," which consists of a sear mounting body, sear, return spring, and pivot pin. The Bureau finds that the single addition of this auto sear to certain AR15 type semiautomatic rifles, manufactured with M16 internal components already installed, will convert such rifles into machineguns. The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b) defines "machinegun" to include any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. Held: The auto sear known by various trade names including "AR15 Auto Sear," "Drop In Auto Sear," and "Auto Sear II," is a combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. Consequently, the auto sear is a machinegun as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(b). With respect to the machinegun classification of the auto sear under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to auto sears manufactured before November 1, 1981. Accordingly, auto sears manufactured on or after November 1, 1981, will be subject to all the provisions of the National Firearms Act and 27 C.F.R. Part 179. [ATFQB 1981-3 78] Editor's Note: Regardless of the date of manufacture of a drop in auto sear, possession of such a sear and certain M-16 fire control parts is possession of a machinegun as defined by the NFA. Specifically, these parts are a combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are a machinegun as defined in the NFA. (See "Important Information Concerning AR15 - Type Rifles on page 91 of this publication.)
View Quote
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 4:46:44 PM EST
Unless that said "drop-in" (as in "drop in auto sear")is on a form 3 or 4, it is contraband.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:01:44 PM EST
But here is the catch (if I understand correctly). If you do not own any firearms that can accecpt the "auto" part. You can have it. Example: Your neighbor has a lightning link, but has no firearms. He is legal. You have the firearms, but no "auto" parts, you are legal. Someone please correct me, if I am wrong.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:08:36 PM EST
I attended a BATF/FFL seminar once. I asked a question that silenced the whole room-- "So, let me get this straight...mere posession of an auto-sear is as good as having the whole select-fire gun, right?" It was a clarification question, but, it came off as A., I was a dumbshit, and B., we NEVER talk about THAT stuff. I was new to FFL. I was there with the BATF. I did not fear the BATF. I wasn't afraid to ask questions, which drew smiles from the BATF guys and sideways glances and glares from the other OLD FFL's. Geez. Yeah, if you got one, it better be "registered". It's the law.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:08:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Guzzler: But here is the catch (if I understand correctly). If you do not own any firearms that can accecpt the "auto" part. You can have it.
View Quote
I've heard that too...basically if you made your own "Lightning Link" paperweight, then in theory you're legal as long as you don't also have an AR-15 (even if they're not assembled). However, this theory is based upon the ATF's interpretation of the law...not the actual law itself. If the ATF were to change their interpretation even after years *cough*Maadi-Griffen*cough* then you're suddenly in a heap of trouble.
Link Posted: 10/24/2001 9:19:42 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 2:32:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By Guzzler: But here is the catch (if I understand correctly). If you do not own any firearms that can accecpt the "auto" part. You can have it. Example: Your neighbor has a lightning link, but has no firearms. He is legal. You have the firearms, but no "auto" parts, you are legal. Someone please correct me, if I am wrong.
View Quote
That's wrong. An unregistered LL is an unregistered MG. The law is pretty straight forward, if you have a part or parts that are only used for the sole purpose of converting semi to auto, you can't have it (unless it's part of a registered NFA weapon of course). So, can you have an M-16 hammer? Sure, because, by itself, in your AR, it does not served to solely convert your AR to full auto. At any rate, my advice is don't have them, despite the above law, just to be safe. Why would you need it anyway? Exception: AR 9mm conversion usually requires an M-16 hammer, however, you can file down the "hook" on the back side so that it can't function in full auto mode.
Link Posted: 10/26/2001 2:36:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Robbie: ...basically if you made your own "Lightning Link" paperweight, then in theory you're legal as long as you don't also have an AR-15 (even if they're not assembled).
View Quote
AGAIN, this is WRONG. You would be committing at least two felonies, one for making an unregistered MG (without the proper license) and one for illegal possession of it when finished. If you were smoking crack at the same time, that's two more felonies . . .
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 7:59:36 AM EST
what about GI M16 surplus parts kits? like Tapco selling, they are all over ebay. They dont require anything special to order. The parts arent actually "designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically " they are parts from a full auto rifle. wouldnt "designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically " mean Drop in sears and lighting links? what if these people selling the tapco kits dont even own a gun at all?
Link Posted: 10/28/2001 12:37:42 PM EST
Heck, I always wondered that myself. In the Bushmaster Catalog, to buy any M 16 part you need a FFL or Tax Stamp.
Top Top