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6/21/2017 8:25:40 PM
Posted: 8/13/2001 4:51:50 AM EDT
I am considering buying a HESSE Kevlar Pistol lower (Post-ban). What should I be careful of in assembling an AR-15 Pistol in order to comply legally?
Link Posted: 8/13/2001 2:04:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2001 2:12:35 PM EDT
where can one get the proper parts do bulid under the limit, also, the heavyer the gun, the LESS likley im going to use it in a shooting spree. crime would all but disappear if all rifles over 28 .LB were outlawed
Link Posted: 8/13/2001 3:35:02 PM EDT
No one's been able to get a build under the limit with standard parts. Professional Ordnance sells their Carbon-15 pistol, which is the only commercially available post-ban AR type pistol currently available. They achieved this with all non-standard parts and a carbon-fiber upper and lower. Olympic Arms made or at least designed an OA-98 post-ban pistol by cutting lightening holes all over the upper and lower receivers so it looked like a piece of swiss cheese. Unless you feel like swiss-cheesing your receiver, or have access to some exotic, lightweight parts, you'll have to fix the mag or remove the gas system to make it a bolt-action in order to build a post-ban legal AR pistol.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 1:28:06 AM EDT
I don't mean to change things around on you...but are the lagalities the same for building a pistol on a preban lower or do they differ at all? Any kind of special paperwork to fill out whether it is either post or preban?
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 5:06:42 AM EDT
[img]http://www.olyarms.com/images/oa98.jpg[/img] <-- OA98 [img]http://www.olyarms.com/images/oa98lowerls.jpg[/img] <-- OA98 lower. I sorta doubt this lower will be suitable for mounting a .50bmg upper... Kharn
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 8:40:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JRStrines: I don't mean to change things around on you...but are the lagalities the same for building a pistol on a preban lower or do they differ at all? Any kind of special paperwork to fill out whether it is either post or preban?
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Since a lower had to be in an assault weapon configuration to be grandfathered (and hence, a pre-ban), and you can't build a pistol from a lower receiver that's been built into a rifle, the only pre-ban pistol lowers out there are basically from the Rocky Mountain Arms "Patriot" pistol. They're rarer than hen's teeth, and extremely expensive. If you can get a bonafide pre-ban pistol lower, or pre-ban complete pistol, it doesn't have to make the weight limit, and can have a handguard/shroud, and flash hider, etc - but still no stock (unless you put a 16" or longer barrel on it).
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 9:14:31 AM EDT
if a preban had to be assembled as a pistol to start is the criteria the same for a postban or can a postban be interchanged between a rifle and a pistol provided that it meets the weight and other requirements as a pistol.
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 10:19:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: It can't have: - handguards/heatshields/forward grips - flash suppressor/threaded barrel - bayo lug - stock and the complete pistol must weigh less than 50oz. Even with the Kevlar lower, this last requirement prevents you from using standard upper parts. -Troy
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Troy, you're partially correct and partially incorrect. The assault weapons ban, as it pertains to [b][u]pistols[/u][/b], does [i]not[/i] ban bayonet lugs, flash suppressors, or forward grips. It does ban threading of the barrel. Thus, if you do want a flash suppressor, it must be permanently pinned and welded onto the barrel. Bayonet lugs aren't even mentioned; if you want one go right ahead. (With one caveat; it's USELESS and only adds to the 50oz. limit. So, I'd recommend milling it off anyway.) As to forward grips, it does [b]not[/b] ban them; however, it does ban heat shields that fully or partially encircle the barrel (ie. Normal AR-15 handguards). A forward pistol grip turns the pistol into a two-gripped pistol. A pistol with no grips or more than one grip is an AOW; an "any other weapon." It's a NFA item and is subject to a $5 transfer tax. AOW's are NOT subject to the assault weapons bill. Thus, if you register the lower as an AOW with the BATF and then add a forward grip, you can do whatever you want and forget the above restrictions. An AOW only has two major restrictions; it can't ever be given a stock (then it's an unregistered short-barreled rifle) or made into a machinegun (then it's an unregistered machinegun) [i]unless[/i] you convert it to being a machinegun by using a registered drop-in-auto-sear or a registered lightning link. If you drop in either of those two conversion parts, then do whatever you want. But, that's beyond the scope of an AR-15 pistol. [:D] Oh, and for that 50 oz weight limit... That's UNLOADED and WITHOUT a mag inserted. My advice is to forget the bayonet lug (that's an ounce right there) and search for the lightest weight (but quality) internal parts you can find. If Hesse makes polymer/kevlar AR-15 internals, you may want to look into that. Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/17/2001 10:27:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JRStrines: if a preban had to be assembled as a pistol to start is the criteria the same for a postban or can a postban be interchanged between a rifle and a pistol provided that it meets the weight and other requirements as a pistol.
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Holy run-on sentences, batman! [;)] Unfortunately not. The BATF interprepted the NFA to ban anything that had less than a 16" barrel and less than a 26" length overall if it was made from a rifle. It doesn't matter if it's postban, preban, or even if the AW ban doesn't apply at all (ie. bolt action rifle). ANY rifle that winds up in ANY configuration that has a less than 16" barrel or is less than 26" long overall is considered a short-barreled rifle (SBR). Now, here's an interesting idea. If you take a POSTBAN AR-15, register it as a SBR, stick on a pistol upper with short barrel and remove the stock..... It sounds like a loophole, but I'm sure that the BATF would say that it's no longer a rifle and is now a post-ban pistol. Then again... [?]
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 4:39:45 AM EDT
English never was my strong point as you can see [:D]
Originally Posted By prebans: Holy run-on sentences, batman! [;)] [?]
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[whacko] give me a minute for my head to stop spinning [whacko] I's no wonder noone can get anything done in the U.S. anymore with all the stipulations and everything else. I've been thinking about building one for a while and these are the kind of reasons that have been keeping me from trying. I thank everyone fro their insight if you think of anymore please let me know.
Link Posted: 8/18/2001 2:38:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:17:42 AM EDT
You can make a post ban AR into an SBR, but it still has to be within the evil feature limit. I think one way you could go is to make a pre-ban AR into an SBR, and then remove the stock. Then, you could have any barrel configuration you wanted. Kind of pricey, with the $200 tax and the cost of a pre-ban. Check with someone more knowledgable to be sure.
Link Posted: 8/19/2001 5:31:00 AM EDT
What would the muzzle velocity be on one of these OA98? Looks like about a 7 inch barrel. Would it be about the same as shooting a 22lr stinger out of a rifle barrel? Seems like the little one gains in compactness you really lose in mv.
Link Posted: 8/20/2001 12:59:06 AM EDT
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